W.O.M.P. Supercharger for 2.0L proteges
October-14th-2004, 08:44 AM
#196
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Remington, VA
Posts: 198
How much extra is the intercooler going to be?
October-14th-2004, 10:38 AM
#197
The man behind the mask
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 11,572
no intercooler. I originally mentioned adding an intercooler because the blower I was planning on using (procharger) reccommends intercooling. The reason being that they are gear driven and have an internal oil source which heats up and adds heat to the intake charge. The Powerdyne I'm using is belt driven and adds almost no heat or noise. Powerdyne has measured 30-50* temp increases with their non-intercooled blowers on 6psi. Compare 30-50* on a supercharger to 150*+ on an INTERCOOLED turbo car. This blower is very efficient.
Should someone decide they want to run 12psi of boost on their forged motor and they are running a BOV I can make and sell them a FMIC for $600-750 that will bolt right in place. this may be an option in the future but I don't see many people pushing 1100cfm on their 2.0L motor anytime soon.
Should someone decide they want to run 12psi of boost on their forged motor and they are running a BOV I can make and sell them a FMIC for $600-750 that will bolt right in place. this may be an option in the future but I don't see many people pushing 1100cfm on their 2.0L motor anytime soon.
October-14th-2004, 08:24 PM
#198
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 143
Is your setup gonna have a CAI? Cause unlike a turbo i think a CAI setup will actually make a difference on your kit
October-14th-2004, 10:29 PM
#199
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 11,572
no, I don't think it'll have a true "cai" style setup. I have two designs laid out right now depending on placement when I get the blower mounted. One is to run a pipe above the top of the radiator back over to the MAF and have a filter over there. It could potentially find its' way down into that fenderwell but I doubt there will be much difference. The second is to have the filter mounted directly to the Blower inlet with a heatshield around it. the MAF would then be blown through and pending the power numbers I think if 4psi makes 170-180whp I will not even use a recirc valve or bypass. 5-8psi will use a recirc valve if needed and 9psi+ will get a BOV. From everything I've read and discussed with powerdyne 4psi is going to make some very nice power and a bypass valve won't really do anything.
October-17th-2004, 12:26 PM
#200
Rotor Head
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 1,309
i wonder how much forged blocks are...
October-17th-2004, 01:15 PM
#201
The man behind the mask
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 11,572
Wagner lists them on his website for $2100. That is a built shortblock ready to install...not just the internals. A very good price if you ask me. With forged internals, some injectors and a boost-a-pump the skies the limit with this blower....well the tranny.
October-17th-2004, 03:32 PM
#202
Registered User
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Remington, VA
Posts: 198
So what have they done to the block besides crank, rods and pistons? I'm definitlely going to go with the wagner motor and the womp kit. Curious, can you run and underdrive pulley with the womp kit, just changing the size of the supercharger pulley to make up the difference? I've got a buddy who can get me some for cheap so I'm considering it...
October-17th-2004, 10:58 PM
#203
The man behind the mask
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 11,572
you wouldn't gain anything by doing that. Besides, the equations I have to use to guesstimate boost levels on this blower/engine are HARD! I'm no math-magician or anything but it took me a while to calculate about 4-6-8-10psi pulleys...much less use someones underdrive pulley to make custom blowers off of.
p.s. You'd get a much bigger gain from switching from your 18lb flywheel to a 9lb flywheel! Thats saving 9lbs of rotating weight as opposed to a few ounces.
p.s. You'd get a much bigger gain from switching from your 18lb flywheel to a 9lb flywheel! Thats saving 9lbs of rotating weight as opposed to a few ounces.
October-17th-2004, 10:59 PM
#204
The man behind the mask
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 11,572
the wagner shortblocks come pre-assembled with a forged crank(stock), pauter rods and JE pistons. You can choose your compression ratio also. I may stick with a 9.1:1 or an 8.8:1 depending on what size blower I end up with. Remember the Bd-600 is their smallest blower....1000cfm @ 12psi!!
October-20th-2004, 01:21 PM
#206
The man behind the mask
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 11,572
yes sir... I don't want to say anything definate yet but I will be including all charge piping as a mandrel bent ne-piece aluminum piping instead of welded stainless steel.
My good buddy Andy Wagner just purchased a mandrel bender that will be installed in his shop next month. I'm sending him my welded steel and he's going to bend me the charge piping out of one piece of aluminum.
p.s. a few new tweaks in EMS may be around the corner as well....more info as it solidifies!!
My good buddy Andy Wagner just purchased a mandrel bender that will be installed in his shop next month. I'm sending him my welded steel and he's going to bend me the charge piping out of one piece of aluminum.
p.s. a few new tweaks in EMS may be around the corner as well....more info as it solidifies!!
October-20th-2004, 06:05 PM
#207
The man behind the mask
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 11,572
some more weight removal pics
Look at how much junk comes out of the engine bay when you install this kit. Keep in mind this doesn't show the compressor, brackets, bolts, random couplers, etc. I'd estimate between the weight saved and the weight of the supercharger you'd still be about 10-20lbs LESS than stock. A turbo system weighs MORE. Not saying one is better than the other....just that there IS a difference.
October-25th-2004, 12:15 AM
#208
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Barbara
Posts: 144
any updates
October-25th-2004, 01:56 AM
#209
The man behind the mask
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 11,572
well let's see....
big thing now is that Wagner will be mandrel bending all of the charge piping out of a solid aluminum piping as opposed to me having to cut and weld mild steel!
Also, DaveB is out of the hospital, back home and going to be at work in about 6.5hours. He had a little set back and I'm sure he's going to finish the last of the machining this week for me.
I'm a little nervous about wiring in my haltech since I'm not good at electrical work at all. I've decided to hold off on it for a few more weeks and instead I'm going to run a MSP ecu in my car to see how it handles the added pressure. If it works nice without any detonation I may dyno it. It could be very possible that I could re-flash stock ECU's to the MSP map and have 0 wiring to do with this kit. I just want to see how it responds to stock MSP maps first.
I may have also found a nice way to make a LOT of power for those interested in all out racing. I'm playing around with the idea of running no recirc valve, a 12psi pulley and a BOV adjusted to vent pressure above 8psi (making up numbers now). What this would do is allow the blower to make a lot of power early on (instead of waiting for rpms to raise). When it reaches the desired level the BOV slips open and vents the excess boost while still delivering the desired pressure to the motor. for example: Say I want to run 8psi across the board. I run the 12psi pulley (highest boost level on stock bearings) and adjust the spring on the BOV for 8psi. When the blower hits 8psi it continues to rise but the excess is forced out the BOV instead of the motor. I think I just said the same thing twice but I wanted everyone to understand what I'm doing. I think this will add more of a V8 feel to the set-up and create TONS of power that doesn't increase with rpm's. The current set-up will feel like a big V6 under the hood with it's power delivery.
I'm also working very hard on finding an electric powersteering pump so people who are dead-set on keeping their ac may do so. HOWEVER I DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS!! I just want to go on the record as saying that. The load caused by the AC system has been known to shread blower belts and damage hoods etc.... This will be a LOW BOOST OPTION ONLY!! I'm very hesitant about doing this as I know there is a much greater risk of breaking something with the AC so this will be only for those who want a little more grunt out of their car. Also, expect the price to jump up a good bit as these componants are not cheap nor easy to design around. There will also (more than likely) be more cutting, wiring, work involved than the typical install.
I'm also going to be doing installs for anyone who wants to purchase a kit for $150. This job will take almost 6-8 hours to do and judging by custom shops rates should cost about $450 or so. A local shop here charges $200 to install a wet nitrous kit that takes them less than 45 minutes. If you do choose this option you will be saving a lot of money. Shipping for this kit will most likely be $85+ due to it's weight, size and amount of packaging materials. You won't have to pay any of this if you're having it picked up from me. I'll have everything here and will just spend the day installing it rather than packaging, catalogging, shipping, etc. If there were enough interested parties we could even have a "supercharger instal" meet where everyone gets together at my place and I walk you through it step by step and you keep your shipping cost and installation fee's. This only applies to 3 or more so....
I'm buying a forged motor next month from Wagner. He's building me one so we'll be able to max the blower out and see exactly what it (or the tranny) is capable of. Remeber, I'm not going for all out power....just an enhanced driving experience. 250whp should be very "enhanced".
big thing now is that Wagner will be mandrel bending all of the charge piping out of a solid aluminum piping as opposed to me having to cut and weld mild steel!
Also, DaveB is out of the hospital, back home and going to be at work in about 6.5hours. He had a little set back and I'm sure he's going to finish the last of the machining this week for me.
I'm a little nervous about wiring in my haltech since I'm not good at electrical work at all. I've decided to hold off on it for a few more weeks and instead I'm going to run a MSP ecu in my car to see how it handles the added pressure. If it works nice without any detonation I may dyno it. It could be very possible that I could re-flash stock ECU's to the MSP map and have 0 wiring to do with this kit. I just want to see how it responds to stock MSP maps first.
I may have also found a nice way to make a LOT of power for those interested in all out racing. I'm playing around with the idea of running no recirc valve, a 12psi pulley and a BOV adjusted to vent pressure above 8psi (making up numbers now). What this would do is allow the blower to make a lot of power early on (instead of waiting for rpms to raise). When it reaches the desired level the BOV slips open and vents the excess boost while still delivering the desired pressure to the motor. for example: Say I want to run 8psi across the board. I run the 12psi pulley (highest boost level on stock bearings) and adjust the spring on the BOV for 8psi. When the blower hits 8psi it continues to rise but the excess is forced out the BOV instead of the motor. I think I just said the same thing twice but I wanted everyone to understand what I'm doing. I think this will add more of a V8 feel to the set-up and create TONS of power that doesn't increase with rpm's. The current set-up will feel like a big V6 under the hood with it's power delivery.
I'm also working very hard on finding an electric powersteering pump so people who are dead-set on keeping their ac may do so. HOWEVER I DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS!! I just want to go on the record as saying that. The load caused by the AC system has been known to shread blower belts and damage hoods etc.... This will be a LOW BOOST OPTION ONLY!! I'm very hesitant about doing this as I know there is a much greater risk of breaking something with the AC so this will be only for those who want a little more grunt out of their car. Also, expect the price to jump up a good bit as these componants are not cheap nor easy to design around. There will also (more than likely) be more cutting, wiring, work involved than the typical install.
I'm also going to be doing installs for anyone who wants to purchase a kit for $150. This job will take almost 6-8 hours to do and judging by custom shops rates should cost about $450 or so. A local shop here charges $200 to install a wet nitrous kit that takes them less than 45 minutes. If you do choose this option you will be saving a lot of money. Shipping for this kit will most likely be $85+ due to it's weight, size and amount of packaging materials. You won't have to pay any of this if you're having it picked up from me. I'll have everything here and will just spend the day installing it rather than packaging, catalogging, shipping, etc. If there were enough interested parties we could even have a "supercharger instal" meet where everyone gets together at my place and I walk you through it step by step and you keep your shipping cost and installation fee's. This only applies to 3 or more so....
I'm buying a forged motor next month from Wagner. He's building me one so we'll be able to max the blower out and see exactly what it (or the tranny) is capable of. Remeber, I'm not going for all out power....just an enhanced driving experience. 250whp should be very "enhanced".
October-25th-2004, 03:40 PM
#210
Rotor Head
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 1,309
Originally Posted by Roddimus Prime
well let's see....
big thing now is that Wagner will be mandrel bending all of the charge piping out of a solid aluminum piping as opposed to me having to cut and weld mild steel!
Also, DaveB is out of the hospital, back home and going to be at work in about 6.5hours. He had a little set back and I'm sure he's going to finish the last of the machining this week for me.
I'm a little nervous about wiring in my haltech since I'm not good at electrical work at all. I've decided to hold off on it for a few more weeks and instead I'm going to run a MSP ecu in my car to see how it handles the added pressure. If it works nice without any detonation I may dyno it. It could be very possible that I could re-flash stock ECU's to the MSP map and have 0 wiring to do with this kit. I just want to see how it responds to stock MSP maps first.
I may have also found a nice way to make a LOT of power for those interested in all out racing. I'm playing around with the idea of running no recirc valve, a 12psi pulley and a BOV adjusted to vent pressure above 8psi (making up numbers now). What this would do is allow the blower to make a lot of power early on (instead of waiting for rpms to raise). When it reaches the desired level the BOV slips open and vents the excess boost while still delivering the desired pressure to the motor. for example: Say I want to run 8psi across the board. I run the 12psi pulley (highest boost level on stock bearings) and adjust the spring on the BOV for 8psi. When the blower hits 8psi it continues to rise but the excess is forced out the BOV instead of the motor. I think I just said the same thing twice but I wanted everyone to understand what I'm doing. I think this will add more of a V8 feel to the set-up and create TONS of power that doesn't increase with rpm's. The current set-up will feel like a big V6 under the hood with it's power delivery.
I'm also working very hard on finding an electric powersteering pump so people who are dead-set on keeping their ac may do so. HOWEVER I DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS!! I just want to go on the record as saying that. The load caused by the AC system has been known to shread blower belts and damage hoods etc.... This will be a LOW BOOST OPTION ONLY!! I'm very hesitant about doing this as I know there is a much greater risk of breaking something with the AC so this will be only for those who want a little more grunt out of their car. Also, expect the price to jump up a good bit as these componants are not cheap nor easy to design around. There will also (more than likely) be more cutting, wiring, work involved than the typical install.
I'm also going to be doing installs for anyone who wants to purchase a kit for $150. This job will take almost 6-8 hours to do and judging by custom shops rates should cost about $450 or so. A local shop here charges $200 to install a wet nitrous kit that takes them less than 45 minutes. If you do choose this option you will be saving a lot of money. Shipping for this kit will most likely be $85+ due to it's weight, size and amount of packaging materials. You won't have to pay any of this if you're having it picked up from me. I'll have everything here and will just spend the day installing it rather than packaging, catalogging, shipping, etc. If there were enough interested parties we could even have a "supercharger instal" meet where everyone gets together at my place and I walk you through it step by step and you keep your shipping cost and installation fee's. This only applies to 3 or more so....
I'm buying a forged motor next month from Wagner. He's building me one so we'll be able to max the blower out and see exactly what it (or the tranny) is capable of. Remeber, I'm not going for all out power....just an enhanced driving experience. 250whp should be very "enhanced".
big thing now is that Wagner will be mandrel bending all of the charge piping out of a solid aluminum piping as opposed to me having to cut and weld mild steel!
Also, DaveB is out of the hospital, back home and going to be at work in about 6.5hours. He had a little set back and I'm sure he's going to finish the last of the machining this week for me.
I'm a little nervous about wiring in my haltech since I'm not good at electrical work at all. I've decided to hold off on it for a few more weeks and instead I'm going to run a MSP ecu in my car to see how it handles the added pressure. If it works nice without any detonation I may dyno it. It could be very possible that I could re-flash stock ECU's to the MSP map and have 0 wiring to do with this kit. I just want to see how it responds to stock MSP maps first.
I may have also found a nice way to make a LOT of power for those interested in all out racing. I'm playing around with the idea of running no recirc valve, a 12psi pulley and a BOV adjusted to vent pressure above 8psi (making up numbers now). What this would do is allow the blower to make a lot of power early on (instead of waiting for rpms to raise). When it reaches the desired level the BOV slips open and vents the excess boost while still delivering the desired pressure to the motor. for example: Say I want to run 8psi across the board. I run the 12psi pulley (highest boost level on stock bearings) and adjust the spring on the BOV for 8psi. When the blower hits 8psi it continues to rise but the excess is forced out the BOV instead of the motor. I think I just said the same thing twice but I wanted everyone to understand what I'm doing. I think this will add more of a V8 feel to the set-up and create TONS of power that doesn't increase with rpm's. The current set-up will feel like a big V6 under the hood with it's power delivery.
I'm also working very hard on finding an electric powersteering pump so people who are dead-set on keeping their ac may do so. HOWEVER I DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS!! I just want to go on the record as saying that. The load caused by the AC system has been known to shread blower belts and damage hoods etc.... This will be a LOW BOOST OPTION ONLY!! I'm very hesitant about doing this as I know there is a much greater risk of breaking something with the AC so this will be only for those who want a little more grunt out of their car. Also, expect the price to jump up a good bit as these componants are not cheap nor easy to design around. There will also (more than likely) be more cutting, wiring, work involved than the typical install.
I'm also going to be doing installs for anyone who wants to purchase a kit for $150. This job will take almost 6-8 hours to do and judging by custom shops rates should cost about $450 or so. A local shop here charges $200 to install a wet nitrous kit that takes them less than 45 minutes. If you do choose this option you will be saving a lot of money. Shipping for this kit will most likely be $85+ due to it's weight, size and amount of packaging materials. You won't have to pay any of this if you're having it picked up from me. I'll have everything here and will just spend the day installing it rather than packaging, catalogging, shipping, etc. If there were enough interested parties we could even have a "supercharger instal" meet where everyone gets together at my place and I walk you through it step by step and you keep your shipping cost and installation fee's. This only applies to 3 or more so....
I'm buying a forged motor next month from Wagner. He's building me one so we'll be able to max the blower out and see exactly what it (or the tranny) is capable of. Remeber, I'm not going for all out power....just an enhanced driving experience. 250whp should be very "enhanced".
woah....