Intruder

Hi everyone,

I've decided to put a subwoofer in my car, but I am not aware of what is good(and cheap) and what is not. Basically, I am going for SQ rather than SPL, and I am on a very tight budget.

The only thing that I have semi-decided on is the sub's size - 10" or 12". I have looked at JL W3s, W6s, W7s, etc... and they all seem very good, but the only one that I could afford is the 10W3. Now, is that a good subwoofer that can provide the quality I strive for as well as some deep, "warm" base? Is there a similar performer for a lower price (Elemental Design... something??).

I don't like the punchiness of some subs that I've heard. The ones that I did not like were mainly in ported enclosures with plexiglass windows, so I guess I don't like this type of a box. It could have been the sub itself, but there is no way to know.

I LOVE a nice, deep, and soft/warm bass sound. I'm guessing that you already know what I mean...

I mainly listen to hard rock and heavy metal (MetallicA), and my car is a 2nd gen Protege. My current setup is as follows:

Alpine CDA-9807
Alpine type S speakers (front and rear)

I do not plan to run those speakers through an amp, so right now all I need is a good mono amp for my sub (or a bridgeable stereo amp). I am considering the MRD-M300 from Alpine since my head unit is Alpine and I think I'd have some control over the amp. I am also looking at their type R subs which seem to be at a good price, but I know nothing about their quality.

What am I missing?

Thank you all for your input!
Martin

MisterT

If you plan on sticking to the deck power to run your highs, I would recommend a single subwoofer. The Elementals are very nice and are very loud, yet sound good with all types of music--jazz, metal, rap, bass cds, and some techno stuff. If the JL 12 was too loud, you may want to go with a single 10 inch EDesign sub. I was pretty astonished on the loudness of my 12s. If I could do it all over, I might have gone with a pair of 10s, but I already had the enclosure. I plan on getting a ported design, but I already have the 12s, so no sense in selling them and getting a pair of 10s now. Whether you go with JL or EDesigns, you won't be disappointed. The EDesign's do have a better warranty (3 years as opposed to 1 year <if the JL dealer installs the subs> otherwise, a 30 day warranty on the JLs. From the sound of things, you have a nice set up and a single sub should do the trick and save you some money.

MiStEr T

Intruder

Great! So, how much of a difference would a single 12" sub make compared to a 10" sub. I've always thought that the bigger the size of a speaker, the lower the volume has to be in order to move lots of air.

What about the deepness and softness of the bass? Would the EDesign sub be able to deliver the bass I look for? And what amp should I get? Is the Alpine MRD-M300 powerfull enough / decent...? to feed a 10"/12" K-series ED sub?

MRD-M300

RMS Power (at 12V,20Hz-200Hz)
Per channel into 2 ohms : 200W x 1
Per channel into 4 ohms : 100W x 1

Driver ----------------- 10K.14 / 10K.44 ---- 12K.14 / 12K.44
Min Power (Wrms*) ----------- 75 ------------------ 85
Rec Power (Wrms*) ----------- 325 ----------------- 350
Max Power (Wrms*) ----------- 650 ---------------- 700

Looks like I'll need a more powerfull amp. Is that right?

MisterT

If you go with a single sub, I would go with a 12 inch DVC subwoofer to get the most out of your amp. You can always adjust it so that it won't be too much for you. In my case, I have 2 12inch woofers and with some sound tracks, they can drown the mids and highs (even if they have around 75 watts going to them RMS). My crossover is behind the rear seat which folds down and can be adjusted. I am 6'4 so reaching around to the back isn't a problem for me. Although I have been hit by low lying ceiling fans! I think the 12K.44 would be a good bet. The Alpine is 2ohm stable so it would run it perfectly.

Mister T

Intruder

What's a DVC subwoofer? Also, what is the difference between a single coil and 4+4ohm..

Let's say I've decided on a 12" sub (the 12K.44). What's the perfect amp for it? You said that the Alpine is "2ohm stable"... do you mean that I will be hooking up the two coils of the 12K.44 in parallel so that Rtotal is 2ohms? Does that cut Wrms of the subwoofer in half?

Intruder

Dual voice coil?
What's the advantage of having a DVC sub instead of one with a single voice coil? Is it only the wiring/configuration options? Can you give me an example?

demoninvictus

i'm going to keep this as BASIC as i know how, if somebody wants to elaborate, feel free. when you run an amplifier at a 4 ohm's of resistance, your amp will produce a certain amount of wattage. in your case, 100 watts. if you run your amp at a 2 ohm load, you can double the wattage.. and in your case, it would be 200 watts. if you get the single voice coil sub, it will only get 100 watts to the subwoofer. if you get the dual voice coil sub, in your instance, it will double the wattage to 200 watts. i'm no expert on this subject matter by ANY means. here is an interesting thing i found on the e-designs' website, their AXA 500m amplifier (mono amp) should push out 500 watts on a 2 ohm load to a 12K.44 dvc subwoofer... just incase you're thinking 200 watts isn't enough... and only runs 70 bucks more than the alpine . basically, this single amplifier is rated to push out 500 watts to a dvc subwoofer. can somebody edumacate me and my friend here? heh basically, from what i've been told as a rule of thumb, 10's will give you nice, tight bass. a 12" inch sub woofer will give you lower frequency (ie deeper) bass, in most cases louder than a 10 (but blueledz proves that wrong everytime he starts his car), just not as accurate as a 10 would be. this can be heavily disputed from a SQ point of view, i'm sure somebody would have something to say about it, but, thats how i've been introduced into the world of car audio .
peace and good luck bro

MisterT

You got it there demon. 10s are more accurate than 12s maybe, but a 12 is a great compromise between accurate and loud bass taht you can feel. I used to have a JL 8" sub in one of their enclosures and it looked and sounded great, however, when the volume was increased, the bass disappeared. I like 12s in that they give you best of both worlds, sound quality and sound pressure. It all depends on a box as physics play a key role. Just listen to Blue LEDz's stereo and you will notice a big difference of a single 10 in a 6th order box compared to my 2 12s in a sealed box.

Mister T

asylum24

intruder... if you want SQL go with the type R i promise you... it is way up there for it.... I love mine... and the 12 doesnt sound sloppy at all.. it'll take about a month to break in the cone though.. its that friggin stiff.. I was disappointed when I first got mine.. there was no bass and I thought I got a broken one because the cone didnt move at all! but then it slowly started getting a little i guess un-stiff(didnt want to say limp[hehe giggle giggle *slap*]) as for an amp I would get the alpine m500 and get the sub as DVC 4 ohm... then run the amp in series on the sub and you'll drop the load to 2 ohms per coil which add up to 4 so you 250 watts per coil..... thats how mine used to be setup... now im getting a kicker 800.4 bridged so I'll get 400 to each coil but tahts prolly more than you want to pay.. but just saying what you could do

asylum24

but does it sound slopy like... thats why I picked my alpine simply because it doesnt sound sloppy at all it osunds exactly like mid bass(so its tight) and then it just pushes the volume of the bass and the vibrations go no other.... I would still pick mine over this other one simply because I hav enever heard of them and havent heard them in a car so I wouldnt buy something I didnt know what it sounded like... just my thing... Anyway thanks for the info on my sub.. learned something new... Didnt know it was 14.4.... mine runs fine though

asylum24

hmm(must win argument ) well the type R's look better!!! and since they look better they are better!! lol...umm... iono...

Intruder

Thank you all for the replys! I am getting closer, it's getting HOT! I would like to thank especially blue LEDz for his very educating response. Thankz!

Now, I have some new questions.
How big of a box would I need for a 12" K? What about a 10" K-series ED? I would like to keep it as small as possible caus this is a "grocery car" and the trunk is needed -- the more space I have left - the better. Also, since the amp you suggested is class A/B, wo't that get my lights dimming and stuff like that? I read another post around here that someone's AC stopped working and all that other crap, just because he has a SONY class A amp (or something along those lines). And his was a 3rd gen Pro (alt. is supposedly better than mine??).

These are my only concerns.
Now, for the type R Alpine sub. Won't the sub be helping with the mid-bass if it has higher frequency response? Since I listen to a lot of guitar work (MetallicA) I'd love to have more CRUNCH from the sub, not only low freq. bass from the bass-drums and whatever else Lars Ulrich beats at. I'm guessing it is better to upgrade/feed more power to my other speakers rather than having the sub take over their job?

PS. I was thinking of buying the alpine m300 for less than $180 ($200 + shipping) at eBay. I could spend the extra cash for the AXA 500m if I'm sure that it won't cause power shortages all around my car at full throttle!

Oh yeah, what about the SUB-W control on my head unit? asylum24, you should know about it.. Is there a "special" connection or a wire or something that interfaces the HU with the amp so that you could control it's parameters or at least the bass, or is it just a low-freq booster/EQ through the RCA jacks?

Thank you all!!

Intruder

I want bass than takes me and carries me like the wind - gentle, soft, etc...

I don't want bass that punches me right in the face - boomy, harsh....

onehawaiian

SPL IS ADDICTING.
i wanted an sq setup. then i wanted an sql setup.
then i found fusion.
altho i love sound quality, it is so hard to fight the urge to go loud. i got lucky cause fusion sounds pretty okay in the sq dept.
my dual e10k's are nutz tho.

my recommendation/$0.02:
either the edesigns or type-r's will be fine for u. if u choose the type-r, i would very much recommend a ported box. on either setup, feed ur subs at least 300wrms each.
aesthetically, imo the flat cone subs from edesigns look better than the type-r's, but that's probably based on how many alpines i see around here (i'm not a mainstream guy).
neither the type r nor the k's will be sloppy. i have found both to play very flat.

Intruder

personally, I think the ED K is UGLY. I like it though. I like it cuz it's ugly!

What about the guitar CRUNCH though - will the type R have any effect over that?