islandpro

Travis

I see that I stirred up a little dust I have no doubt that the Mazda motors are great motors, hell I am thinking of even buying one. As for the Tq on the Si, you are right..They don't kick over til 3rd gear, but who stops racing at beginning of 3rd gear? A scared kid who knows he is about to get spanked? Honda's are known for pulling away in 3rd gear. I was fascinated with the H-series and F-series motors for the fact that the tq/hp numbers are relatively even. I agree that these kids think Vtec is the ****, when infact it isnt accept for on the H22a (Prelude Vtec), b18c5 (Integra Type R), b18c1 (Integra GSR) and ofcourse the beloved b16b (Civic Type R only in Japan). I am not as fluent with Mazda motors as most of you guys, and ofcourse the JDM Version of any Import is gonna be better than the USDM, I know that by experience. If you want to start comparing JDM motors, that is fine, but for USDM vrs USDM a Protege isnt gonna pull on a DOHC Vtec in the 1/4 mile unless its heavily modded. Its the sad truth. However I would take a protege over a civic anyday, the styling cannot be beat, and all around design is so much better.The 99 Si is the same thing as the 96, but with minor upgrades and ofcourse the b16a2. Mazda has done a great job of "upgrading" through each generation, while Honda seems to be going to crap. The new RSX is a total joke, Honda just wanted to throw in a 6-speed to shut everybody up. If you want build quality/styling go with Mazda, if you want speed/good engine build quality but crappy car build quality and styling go with Honda. Sorry to stir up some dirt, especially being the Official Outcast, but it is truley retarded to fight over **** like this. It all comes down to the fact that they are a big chunk of metal and are transportation, we however are humans and are more mature than this.

jstand6

I miss my RX-7. The rotary engine is pretty much the ultimate power to size, power to weight engine. Everyone got so impressed with the S2000's 120hp/L. Impressive, no doubt, from a piston engine, particularly without forced induction. But, what I really hated, were the Honda people claiming no one has even come close to that in a stock engine (not all Honda people, just the ignorant ones).

Mention to them that the 1993 RX-7 made 196hp/L and the 2002 RX-7 made 215 hp/L, they would call you a liar and tell you how much you don't know about engines. Then, of course, as they actually looked up the RX-7's power output and displacement, they would come back and just start downing the rotary engine and how unreliable and stupid it is. Tell them that a rotary engine won the 24 Hours of Le Mans, pretty much proving reliability and durability and near superiority on the race track), and they would just come back that Honda is better. Period. Mazda has never made or has the ability to make a better performing car than Honda.

Now that's just plain ignorance. We all know Mazda has and can and will again.

-Jerry

jstand6

Ok. So with engines we've determined Honda's advantage are it's peak horsepower and VTEC. Mazda's advantage is torque and better powerband. And we both know both engines are excellent when it comes to reliability and durability.

So, what about suspensions? Honda suspensions are very good, sharp and responsive. But, this is Mazda territory and I personally believe Mazda suspensions provide even better handling and control, particularly as the limit is reached. Until the introduction of the Corvette Z06, the 3rd Gen RX-7 held the record for the best lateral acceleration of any production car at 0.98g. The MP3 was included in Road and Track's ultimate handling cars comparo last month (against the likes of 2 Porsche's, 2 Ferrari's, the M3, Elise, Z06, etc.). And everytime a Mazda is reviewed, from the SUV to the minivan, its handling is praised.

And what happened with the new Civic? After they touted double-wishbone suspensions for so long (and Honda people throwing it around in everyone's face), they take it away. I agree with a previous post. There seems to be a mass exodus from Honda to other makes (especially the Focus, it seems).

-Jerry

Travis

good point on the suspensions, honda didn't do too good in that department. As for the rotary, I agree that is very impressive what mazda did, however I am comparing 4-banger to 4-banger. Both companies are equally matched, but to each his own. I just with the Honda/Acura guys would pull their heads out of their asses for a second and see that they are truley not at the top of the totem pole.

BloodRoses53

That's partially why I love Mazda so much. 13B all the way to the checkered flag and back . *sighs* I shall have that 1995 RX-7 some day... just you guys watch .

Travis

mmm....95 Rx7......Must have....

jstand6

If I could import any Mazda...

The awesome sequential twin-turbo 3-rotor 20B Eunos Cosmo! 300hp (maximum Japanese rating, it's really higher) and 297ft-lb of pure rotary power! Built from 1990 to 1996, it was Japan's most technologically advanced car... too bad it would have cost about $110,000 here in the U.S.

14.1 1/4 mile time... at a hefty 3,300 pounds! Imagine it modified!



-Jerry

BloodRoses53

Those Spirit-R's are awesome, aren't they? BTW, the maximum horsepower rating for a Japanese car is 275hp, not 300. Also, many people due to it's light weight and more aerodynamic profile put 20B engines into RX-7's, it's a snug fit from what I hear but it works. It's said they can achieve well into the 2000hp range if pushed to the max, I don't know how true that is as I haven't seen a dyno in my hands but I'd imagine that statement has at least some merit. That would be amazing to drive just once, but honestly... in a realistic environment pushing it that hard would have some reliability issues and really... who needs that much power for street driving?

My goal for my ultimate car...

1995 Mazda RX-7, mint condition no body work etc. with all recalled parts and engine checked and or replaced. Probably a modified A-Spec body kit with that low profile rear wing that sits towards the back of the car and hangs off a little. Smooth clean lines, no edgyness... "soft" more or less. Then enough mods to get it to around 600rwhp... hopefully that'll supply me with at least a 12 sec quarter mile, 4 sec 0-60 and a top speed of at least 200mph

Can we say "Zoom Zoom"?

BloodRoses53

6-700? That seems unrealistic, I saw a site for a twin turbocharger for the 13B that put out 980hp alone...

Edit: In fact I've seen actual dyno's somewhere of people pulling off 900hp on a 13B

superdave

Stock FDs with 255hp run ~13.8 seconds in the quarter. 13.5 is not unheard of with a great driver and great conditions. 600rwhp with proper wheel/tire choice I think would put you into 10's

superdave

6-700hp -maybe- with a turbo on a 20B?? People do that with 13B-REWs!

azrakain

Maximum output from a japanesse car (in japan) is 276 hp. That is why cars such as the WRX STi and Skylines have 276 hp. The skylines really have about 320 hp according to numerous magazines, but I've seen no dyno proof. They also started governing motorcycles at 187 MPH (not sure of KPH; about 300 KPH). The Kawasaki ZX12R and the Suzuki Hyabusa were about 2 MPH away from 200MPH and the government steped in and wanted a restriction. Why they chose 187MPH i don't know. I personnaly had the ZX6R up to nearly 150MPH and it was fast enough.

BloodRoses53

I know, it would be a lot faster than what my goals are... but that's what I really want as a minimum (4sec/12sec/200mph that is). 600rwhp as an even number, then just work on making it as effective as I can...

Here's a question for the collective intelligence of the users of this board... is it possible to use the Miata's 6 speed transmission on an RX-7 and switch out the gear ratios?

superdave

No you can't. (I'm pretty sure)
I think HK$ or someone makes a 6spd for the FD, but its upwards of 5k.