What's the beef with Hondas?
June-6th-2002, 12:24 PM
#16
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 1,122
I think most of the complaints about Hondas on this list (and other import lists) aren;t really directed at the cars themselves; they're directed at what I'll call the "Honda Punk Attitude."
It's been my observation that the recent popularity of Civics and Integras has bred a large number of Honda Punks who think that their car is the shiznit, period, and that anyone who drives anything else is an ignoramus who doesn't understand why Honda and VTEC are superior. The typical Honda Punk does not appreciate the fact that other cars aren't necessarily inferior, just different, and that just because a car is popular doesn't mean that it's the best.
I've always thought that the Honda Punks are comical because I used to autocross a CRX back before Hondas were cool (~1993). I remember when the ONLY companies selling speed parts for Hondas were Jackson Racing and Mugen, VTEC didn't exist except on the NSX, and most of the bashing was directed TOWARDS Hondas ("why do you want to race that slow little 4-cylinder car anyway?") Back then, the street racing scene was dominated by another creature, the Five Point Oh Punk
Those were the days..... 
Just ignore the Honda bashing. Remember, we speak of the Honda Punk, not of you or your car
It's been my observation that the recent popularity of Civics and Integras has bred a large number of Honda Punks who think that their car is the shiznit, period, and that anyone who drives anything else is an ignoramus who doesn't understand why Honda and VTEC are superior. The typical Honda Punk does not appreciate the fact that other cars aren't necessarily inferior, just different, and that just because a car is popular doesn't mean that it's the best.
I've always thought that the Honda Punks are comical because I used to autocross a CRX back before Hondas were cool (~1993). I remember when the ONLY companies selling speed parts for Hondas were Jackson Racing and Mugen, VTEC didn't exist except on the NSX, and most of the bashing was directed TOWARDS Hondas ("why do you want to race that slow little 4-cylinder car anyway?") Back then, the street racing scene was dominated by another creature, the Five Point Oh Punk
Those were the days..... Just ignore the Honda bashing. Remember, we speak of the Honda Punk, not of you or your car
June-6th-2002, 12:35 PM
#17
I am TEH W1N!!!
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,076
Originally posted by Sweedenhouse
...Hell some chode muncher even posted his P5 here with a big *** rice aluminum wing on it!
...Hell some chode muncher even posted his P5 here with a big *** rice aluminum wing on it!
June-6th-2002, 01:34 PM
#18
Passion for Zoom Zoom!
Join Date: May 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 372
Just ignore the Honda bashing. Remember, we speak of the Honda Punk, not of you or your car
I have been in many, many discussions (and heated debates) with Honda owners. A lot of them think Honda's are the absolute performance car from Japan! Honda's are great cars and they have some sporty pretenses, but they are a car designed for the masses. Nissan and Mazda have been the performance arch-rivals for many years. Many of these Honda owners refuse to look back a few years when Japanese sports cars were at their peak. Mazda RX-7, Toyota Supra, Nissan 300ZX, Mitsubishi 3000GT, Acura NSX. No Honda's in that group, except for the NSX which Honda owners will continue to throw in your face. But, it's funny though that they will bash the Honda-made Integra like there's no tomorrow.
VTEC is a great system but it is not the holy grail of performance nor is it the only innovation out there (these "Honda punks" will disagree). VTEC is wonderful for enhancing top-end power, but it gets pretty tiring having to wind the engine way up just to keep up with traffic. There are other systems out there such as Mazda's much less known VICS which enhances low-end power while maintaining top-end power, or Toyota's VVTi-L or BMW's VANOS which took variable valve timing to another level.
I just find it funny seeing these "Honda punks" dump several thousands of dollars on a Civic DX just to make it perform like a Civic EX which would have been cheaper to buy in the first place. And what about Honda racing? I have heard just how dominant Honda is in racing and how they are the best company to have ever raced and how Ferrari and Porsche should bow their heads to Honda. I know it sounds ridiculous, but I have heard many times! They won't even acknowledge how Mazda dominated the race track or that Mazda is the one and only Japanese manufacturer to take an overall win in the 24 Hours of Le Mans. And don't even get me started on the rotary engine, which made such an impact on racing that it was banned for many years...
I would love to see a Civic and Protege, Accord and 626, CR-V and Tribute, and Odyssey and MPV compete against one another on the race track. The Hondas may have a power advantage in some cases, but the Mazdas' overall balance in torque curves, handling, and braking will prevail. Honda does have Mazda beat with the S2000 vs. Miata, but look at the price difference and what Mazda could do to the Miata with that extra money.
Mazda doesn't sell nearly as many cars as Honda. So, therefore, Honda must be way better. I've heard that a million times before from "Honda punks". But, remember how many millions of Escorts Ford sold? I guess that makes the Escort better than anything out there...
Both companies make terrific vehicles. I have to give Honda the edge in terms of quality and reliability. However, from the performance and fun-to-drive standpoint, I have to give that to Mazda.
-Jerry
Last edited by jstand6; June-6th-2002 at 01:40 PM.
June-6th-2002, 01:50 PM
#19
Who's yo daddy
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Miami
Posts: 197
Well said jstand6. Mazda is coming back to the 24hrs at lemans using the same motor they used when they won last time except for a few modifications. I would love to see mazda whoop some audi R8 *** those audi R8s are no joke.
June-6th-2002, 01:50 PM
#20
got boost? HELL NO!!!!!
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Houston, TX <):)
Posts: 385
Originally posted by zeriak
Now, the new 2003 Civic Si. Nice car, except that it looks like Honda's version of the Echo. It's ugly! The only problem is if I race one, I'll get beat before we reach a 1/4 mile and I'll have to pull over and pick my *** up out of the street before someone runs over it...
a
Yes, yes, Honda is a worthy opponent! I'll just have to rely on my driving skills when it comes to the new Civic Si...
Now, the new 2003 Civic Si. Nice car, except that it looks like Honda's version of the Echo. It's ugly! The only problem is if I race one, I'll get beat before we reach a 1/4 mile and I'll have to pull over and pick my *** up out of the street before someone runs over it...
a
Yes, yes, Honda is a worthy opponent! I'll just have to rely on my driving skills when it comes to the new Civic Si...
I dont hate hondas, i hate people that put I/H/E and hyperwhite bulbs on their cars and think theyre fast
June-6th-2002, 02:30 PM
#21
Protege Enthusiast
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Maine
Posts: 97
I'll end this conversation with the reason why I have a beef with Hondas.
There entire lineup is incredibly boring now. PERIOD!
Honda has turned into Toyota and Toyota has turned into Honda (ie. Toyota now makes decent looking cars, Hondas now boring looking, very vanilla).
My P5 hit me like a rock and struck me with a feeling of "I GOTTA HAVE IT!" that no Honda has ever done to me (new honda that is).
End of story.
There entire lineup is incredibly boring now. PERIOD!
Honda has turned into Toyota and Toyota has turned into Honda (ie. Toyota now makes decent looking cars, Hondas now boring looking, very vanilla).
My P5 hit me like a rock and struck me with a feeling of "I GOTTA HAVE IT!" that no Honda has ever done to me (new honda that is).
End of story.
June-6th-2002, 04:54 PM
#22
Passion for Zoom Zoom!
Join Date: May 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 372
Some of those are things I can NOT say about my P5: the wind noise is horrendous, and some genius thought it was smart to put the lighter behind a cupholder? rendering the cupholder useless if you have anything plugged in! I'm also finding the air conditioning inadequate and loud.
Remember, the Protege is Mazda's entry-level vehicle. It is truly just an economy car with some sportiness (read: zoom zoom!) designed into it. The 626 (the next level up) is much quieter, much smoother, and has a lighter and power-point for your plugging enjoyment. Plus, it has wonderful air conditioning which is quiet and has automatically oscillating vents.
I wish all cars were as nice as the S2000. But, considering it costs over twice as much as my Protege, it better be a whole lot nicer (and it is).
-Jerry
June-7th-2002, 05:04 PM
#24
Im fastr then u think u r
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Toronto IS NOT Canada
Posts: 257
It's the Competition!
What it all comes down to is the competition! The Civic is the direct competition for the Protege.
Now, to say one is any better than the other, is totally a point of opinion. I bought a Protege part because I was a Ford guy (obvious japanese equivalent) and part because I liked the car. A friend with the extra $3000.00 to spend bought a Civic. Both sedan, loaded, standard transmission and top-line model. The cars perform practically like twins (Mazda knew this was the market to be in when they designed the Gen3!) The Protege rides a bit harder, and feels a bit better at the edge of cornering capabilities. The Protege also has a bit of european flair to it. These things the Civic dosen't have, but the aftermarket for the Protege compared to the Civic is very lack lustre!
I test drove both cars and I personally because of my style liked the Protege, my friend (6'4") liked the Civic because of the room.
We could compare forever. Needless to say, the cars are in direct competition because of price, size and amneties.
What does every Mustang driver hate...A Camero driver <---Direct competition!
What does every Harley rider hate...Crotch rocket riders <---Direct competition!
...the list can go on.
Now...if I wanted a S2000 Id have financed one!
You enjoy your Honda, You enjoy your Protege, and all Chev drivers can fade away! <--my $0.02
Don't make me separate you! (I'm practising see my signature!)
Now, to say one is any better than the other, is totally a point of opinion. I bought a Protege part because I was a Ford guy (obvious japanese equivalent) and part because I liked the car. A friend with the extra $3000.00 to spend bought a Civic. Both sedan, loaded, standard transmission and top-line model. The cars perform practically like twins (Mazda knew this was the market to be in when they designed the Gen3!) The Protege rides a bit harder, and feels a bit better at the edge of cornering capabilities. The Protege also has a bit of european flair to it. These things the Civic dosen't have, but the aftermarket for the Protege compared to the Civic is very lack lustre!
I test drove both cars and I personally because of my style liked the Protege, my friend (6'4") liked the Civic because of the room.
We could compare forever. Needless to say, the cars are in direct competition because of price, size and amneties.
What does every Mustang driver hate...A Camero driver <---Direct competition!
What does every Harley rider hate...Crotch rocket riders <---Direct competition!
...the list can go on.
Now...if I wanted a S2000 Id have financed one!
You enjoy your Honda, You enjoy your Protege, and all Chev drivers can fade away! <--my $0.02
Don't make me separate you! (I'm practising see my signature!)
June-7th-2002, 08:35 PM
#25
Protege Enthusiast
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Surrey, BC
Posts: 131
Well, I hated my Honda, which gave me nothing but trouble. I got rid of the sucker today, actually! It feels so good to be rid of that POS.
When I decided on buying my Protege, I initially had a choice of three cars I was interested in. The other two being the Corolla and the Civic. I was impressed with the Corolla equally as much as I was with the Protege, but when it came down to price, the Toyota dealers thought they'd all charge full list being a 2003. Screw that!
When I drove the Civic however, I was amazed Honda could even sell such a thing! Sure it had some nice features, but the first thing I noticed was the unfinished rear window (they were so cheap, they couldn't even put moulding around it!). But it was the test drive that did it in. It was noisy, the speedo took forever to climb, and the seats weren't really that comfortable.
Ricers definitely don't help my opinion of the Civic, either.
Not saying all Hondas are bad though, I did like the Accord when I drove one a little while back.
When I decided on buying my Protege, I initially had a choice of three cars I was interested in. The other two being the Corolla and the Civic. I was impressed with the Corolla equally as much as I was with the Protege, but when it came down to price, the Toyota dealers thought they'd all charge full list being a 2003. Screw that!
When I drove the Civic however, I was amazed Honda could even sell such a thing! Sure it had some nice features, but the first thing I noticed was the unfinished rear window (they were so cheap, they couldn't even put moulding around it!). But it was the test drive that did it in. It was noisy, the speedo took forever to climb, and the seats weren't really that comfortable.
Ricers definitely don't help my opinion of the Civic, either.
Not saying all Hondas are bad though, I did like the Accord when I drove one a little while back.
June-7th-2002, 09:38 PM
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: What's the beef with Hondas?
Maybe you should get to know the people on this board before you comment about any type of bashing .. I honestly don't care much for most (MOST) Honda drivers for the simple reason that they are pretty damn coky and feal that they can beat any car out there. why I don't know ,... anyway I have met some who are cool . but the rice cars we basically can't stand and if you look closely you will see that , that is what we can't stand , those that run around with all the crap in there cars and think they are the bomb digi ... i also hate the fact that ,, many shops only cater to these brands of cars, and make it really hard for you to get any type of parts,. and when you inquire they tend to laugh or basically take you as a joke and not really even feal the need to look into getting parts ,, now if that was a Honda ,,, you get my point ...
You have a p5 , you have it a bit easier, but it's still kinda ruff, If you look around at a lot of the attitudes that people have toward cars that are different then maybe you can understand where we are coming from
Bruce
You have a p5 , you have it a bit easier, but it's still kinda ruff, If you look around at a lot of the attitudes that people have toward cars that are different then maybe you can understand where we are coming from
Bruce
Originally posted by Sondra S2k
Seriously, I don't get it. First and foremost, I am a Honda owner. I bought a Mazda because Honda doesn't make a small wagon and the P5 fit the bill as well as looked really cool. Generally, this is a pretty cool forum to read and informative, but why the need to rip on Hondas?
This is my first Mazda; prior to this, I was almost exclusively a Honda owner. Every Honda I have had, with the exception of my '76 Civic, has been rock solid reliable. The styling was really nice, interior well appointed, controls were laid out in a logical way, and the engineering was exhaustive to the point of road noise and wind noise being at a minimum or seemingly nonexistent. Some of those are things I can NOT say about my P5: the wind noise is horrendous, and some genius thought it was smart to put the lighter behind a cupholder? rendering the cupholder useless if you have anything plugged in! I'm also finding the air conditioning inadequate and loud. In spite of all of these things, I like my P5 and am not bashing it or Mazda on the S2000 website that I frequent.
So my question is this: do you guys just need some other make of car to bash on to make yourselves feel superior? Mazda makes a good car; Honda does too. For that matter, Nissan, Subaru, and any number of other good Japanese cars exist too. I'm a little beyond the stage of this lingo, but why do you have to be haters? I really like this forum, but this bit of unnecessary, baseless bias really grates me.
Seriously, I don't get it. First and foremost, I am a Honda owner. I bought a Mazda because Honda doesn't make a small wagon and the P5 fit the bill as well as looked really cool. Generally, this is a pretty cool forum to read and informative, but why the need to rip on Hondas?
This is my first Mazda; prior to this, I was almost exclusively a Honda owner. Every Honda I have had, with the exception of my '76 Civic, has been rock solid reliable. The styling was really nice, interior well appointed, controls were laid out in a logical way, and the engineering was exhaustive to the point of road noise and wind noise being at a minimum or seemingly nonexistent. Some of those are things I can NOT say about my P5: the wind noise is horrendous, and some genius thought it was smart to put the lighter behind a cupholder?
rendering the cupholder useless if you have anything plugged in! I'm also finding the air conditioning inadequate and loud. In spite of all of these things, I like my P5 and am not bashing it or Mazda on the S2000 website that I frequent.So my question is this: do you guys just need some other make of car to bash on to make yourselves feel superior? Mazda makes a good car; Honda does too. For that matter, Nissan, Subaru, and any number of other good Japanese cars exist too. I'm a little beyond the stage of this lingo, but why do you have to be haters? I really like this forum, but this bit of unnecessary, baseless bias really grates me.
June-8th-2002, 01:13 AM
#27
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Paris Ontario Canada
Posts: 411
Originally posted by boostedmp5
Well said jstand6. Mazda is coming back to the 24hrs at lemans using the same motor they used when they won last time except for a few modifications. I would love to see mazda whoop some audi R8 *** those audi R8s are no joke.
Well said jstand6. Mazda is coming back to the 24hrs at lemans using the same motor they used when they won last time except for a few modifications. I would love to see mazda whoop some audi R8 *** those audi R8s are no joke.
-Dave
June-8th-2002, 01:41 AM
#28
No Boost? No Chance!
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 758
I guess its my turn. Me being a Honda enthusiast/hardcore tuner I have been around the Import scene for a while. I do enjoy reading the kill stories on this board where these guys (no names) automatically assume the civic is slow cause its a civic..Who in their right mind sees a car and automatically says "thats slow I can beat that" ? Sleepers are becoming more and more popular, as are ricers. However, we are not talking about "ricers" rightnow, we are talking about "sleepers" I have built plenty of sleepers, whether its a simple B16a in a 4 door DX Civic or an H22a Turbo in a 93 Civic Hatchback. The fact is, its not uncommon these days for a Civic to have a GSR,Si, or whatever swap. Hell, I raced a turbo GSR in a del sol the other day, it was stock height,exhaust,etc..total sleeper. it had 3" piping from downpipe to muffler. One fact I will push is that Honda/Acura has way better performing motors than Mazda protege,miata,etc. The Honda/Acura 4-banger is quite powerful for what it is. I am sure it would take a Turbo or some kind of FI (forced induction) for one of you guys to keep up with or beat a Prelude Vtec from a roll. The fact is, Honda is direct competition to an extent. You can't really compare the DOHC Vtec motors to the DOHC motors, I would say the SOHC Vtec motors are more even with the DOHC motors that mazda has. Now we get to ricers. Ricers are those with Civic EX's with exhaust only quoting 200hp and saying they can spank anything/everything on the road. I have met rice in all categories of cars, but it is mostly in Honda/Acura's. You know why? Because the majority of the market is wrapped around them, what other import car has just about every mod imagineable for their car? I plan on buying a P5 or the new Protege Turbo, but I will never stop modifying Honda's, they are great cars and shouldn't be generalized nor dogged on because of their manufacturer. I like both mazda and honda evenly but if a flame starts up I will jump to hondas side because more than likely its someone generalizing them.
June-8th-2002, 04:26 AM
#29
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 34
I don't hate Honda's. I hate the arrogance typically associated with the more obnoxious Honda owner crowd. Sadly, because of this obnoxiousness they seem to be noticed more than the legitimate enthusiast with a non-ricer looking Honda. I bought my Mazda because I liked the car, and the company behind it. In my opinion, Mazda was, is and always will be the most innovative car company that ever existed and being a computer geek that will to innovate is attractive to me and I have a bit of respect for it. Most importantly, to the arrogant Honda crowd... I have nothing to prove to you except that I enjoy my Mazda, so go rev your engine in someone else's face
June-8th-2002, 06:14 AM
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
I have to let you know , that a FSZE 2.0 DOHC , properly tuned will hand any DOHC vtec it's ***,.. easy ,, and that is in the station wagon p5 ...
*** fot the other DOHC motors , the 1.8 L could run with a DOHC vtech if there is work done to it , wich you know off, like cams , decked head and so forth ..
That BP motor is a very strong motor and it becomes a real pain in anyones *** when a turbo is straped on it , check the miata's they are clocking way in the 400 hp range , just with a turbo ,, ...
Bruce
*** fot the other DOHC motors , the 1.8 L could run with a DOHC vtech if there is work done to it , wich you know off, like cams , decked head and so forth ..
That BP motor is a very strong motor and it becomes a real pain in anyones *** when a turbo is straped on it , check the miata's they are clocking way in the 400 hp range , just with a turbo ,, ...
Bruce
Originally posted by Travis
I guess its my turn. Me being a Honda enthusiast/hardcore tuner I have been around the Import scene for a while. I do enjoy reading the kill stories on this board where these guys (no names) automatically assume the civic is slow cause its a civic..Who in their right mind sees a car and automatically says "thats slow I can beat that" ? Sleepers are becoming more and more popular, as are ricers. However, we are not talking about "ricers" rightnow, we are talking about "sleepers" I have built plenty of sleepers, whether its a simple B16a in a 4 door DX Civic or an H22a Turbo in a 93 Civic Hatchback. The fact is, its not uncommon these days for a Civic to have a GSR,Si, or whatever swap. Hell, I raced a turbo GSR in a del sol the other day, it was stock height,exhaust,etc..total sleeper. it had 3" piping from downpipe to muffler. One fact I will push is that Honda/Acura has way better performing motors than Mazda protege,miata,etc. The Honda/Acura 4-banger is quite powerful for what it is. I am sure it would take a Turbo or some kind of FI (forced induction) for one of you guys to keep up with or beat a Prelude Vtec from a roll. The fact is, Honda is direct competition to an extent. You can't really compare the DOHC Vtec motors to the DOHC motors, I would say the SOHC Vtec motors are more even with the DOHC motors that mazda has. Now we get to ricers. Ricers are those with Civic EX's with exhaust only quoting 200hp and saying they can spank anything/everything on the road. I have met rice in all categories of cars, but it is mostly in Honda/Acura's. You know why? Because the majority of the market is wrapped around them, what other import car has just about every mod imagineable for their car? I plan on buying a P5 or the new Protege Turbo, but I will never stop modifying Honda's, they are great cars and shouldn't be generalized nor dogged on because of their manufacturer. I like both mazda and honda evenly but if a flame starts up I will jump to hondas side because more than likely its someone generalizing them.
I guess its my turn. Me being a Honda enthusiast/hardcore tuner I have been around the Import scene for a while. I do enjoy reading the kill stories on this board where these guys (no names) automatically assume the civic is slow cause its a civic..Who in their right mind sees a car and automatically says "thats slow I can beat that" ? Sleepers are becoming more and more popular, as are ricers. However, we are not talking about "ricers" rightnow, we are talking about "sleepers" I have built plenty of sleepers, whether its a simple B16a in a 4 door DX Civic or an H22a Turbo in a 93 Civic Hatchback. The fact is, its not uncommon these days for a Civic to have a GSR,Si, or whatever swap. Hell, I raced a turbo GSR in a del sol the other day, it was stock height,exhaust,etc..total sleeper. it had 3" piping from downpipe to muffler. One fact I will push is that Honda/Acura has way better performing motors than Mazda protege,miata,etc. The Honda/Acura 4-banger is quite powerful for what it is. I am sure it would take a Turbo or some kind of FI (forced induction) for one of you guys to keep up with or beat a Prelude Vtec from a roll. The fact is, Honda is direct competition to an extent. You can't really compare the DOHC Vtec motors to the DOHC motors, I would say the SOHC Vtec motors are more even with the DOHC motors that mazda has. Now we get to ricers. Ricers are those with Civic EX's with exhaust only quoting 200hp and saying they can spank anything/everything on the road. I have met rice in all categories of cars, but it is mostly in Honda/Acura's. You know why? Because the majority of the market is wrapped around them, what other import car has just about every mod imagineable for their car? I plan on buying a P5 or the new Protege Turbo, but I will never stop modifying Honda's, they are great cars and shouldn't be generalized nor dogged on because of their manufacturer. I like both mazda and honda evenly but if a flame starts up I will jump to hondas side because more than likely its someone generalizing them.