The new Lexus RX 330
April-8th-2003, 03:21 PM
#16
Protege Progasm
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: MD
Posts: 2,456
Re: SUVs
Originally posted by ProtegeMaster
I find those who drive luxury SUV's scum bag, selfish, thoughtless, gluttons. They take more than is necessary from our collective well being and I find that an egotistical practice that is inherently selfish and irreverent toward others. These people aren’t thinking of anything but themselves.
How cool is that?
How noble is that?
I find those who drive luxury SUV's scum bag, selfish, thoughtless, gluttons. They take more than is necessary from our collective well being and I find that an egotistical practice that is inherently selfish and irreverent toward others. These people aren’t thinking of anything but themselves.
How cool is that?
How noble is that?
So if I bought an SUV right now, I will become a scum bag, selfish, thoughtless....?
If you think a car makes a person, then you have issues that need to be dealt with.
April-8th-2003, 04:27 PM
#17
Demands Perfection
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 344
SUVs
Perhaps scumbag, et al should be categorized in terms of one’s concern over the welfare of others vs. one’s own self engorging interests, coupled with an oblivious, “I’m not thinking about what this does to anyone else” mentality. This presents scumbag behavior in my opinion. Respectfully, what would you call it?
To clarify, those who buy especially luxury SUVs will NEVER, EVER use them for even mild off-road purposes, and the vast majority of them will never, ever tote the cargo and/or people these vehicles were originally intended to carry. What that means is these people are buying, driving, and owning such vehicles for no other purpose other than vanity and an interest in joining the bandwagon of popular, damaging, ego pumping trend, and a false sense of hulking security. When you think logically about what these people are doing, there is no practicality in their purchases, and this lack of prudence hurts other people. Increase the likelihood of accidents, increase your use of fuel (and the dependence on foreign oil that it creates), increase the amount of harmful pollutants spewed into the air (and all of the health consequences directly related to it), and you may begin to evolve a true understanding of what you do when you drive an SUV, especially when you don’t really need to.
It is this that I find reprehensible. I find it reprehensible that indeed otherwise law abiding, decent people would stoop to the level of mindless, self serving interests that hurt other people. This trend serves no practical purpose, which isn’t inherently problematic. It’s serving no practical purpose AND hurting other people that angers me. That’s exactly what luxury SUVs do.
While there’s likely no denying that vehicles of this kind are cool looking, interesting, etc., I’ll not play party to something that is harmful to others just because it’s trendy. I think too much, which is characteristic all too uncommon amongst the general public.
To clarify, those who buy especially luxury SUVs will NEVER, EVER use them for even mild off-road purposes, and the vast majority of them will never, ever tote the cargo and/or people these vehicles were originally intended to carry. What that means is these people are buying, driving, and owning such vehicles for no other purpose other than vanity and an interest in joining the bandwagon of popular, damaging, ego pumping trend, and a false sense of hulking security. When you think logically about what these people are doing, there is no practicality in their purchases, and this lack of prudence hurts other people. Increase the likelihood of accidents, increase your use of fuel (and the dependence on foreign oil that it creates), increase the amount of harmful pollutants spewed into the air (and all of the health consequences directly related to it), and you may begin to evolve a true understanding of what you do when you drive an SUV, especially when you don’t really need to.
It is this that I find reprehensible. I find it reprehensible that indeed otherwise law abiding, decent people would stoop to the level of mindless, self serving interests that hurt other people. This trend serves no practical purpose, which isn’t inherently problematic. It’s serving no practical purpose AND hurting other people that angers me. That’s exactly what luxury SUVs do.
While there’s likely no denying that vehicles of this kind are cool looking, interesting, etc., I’ll not play party to something that is harmful to others just because it’s trendy. I think too much, which is characteristic all too uncommon amongst the general public.
April-8th-2003, 06:41 PM
#18
Protege Progasm
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: MD
Posts: 2,456
Yes, you are thinking way to much about this. You have way to much free time.
If ppl have the money to buy SUVs, well they can buy it. It isn't wrong and I don't see how not driving an SUV can save a persons life.
If thats your case, then old ppl driving exotic/sport cars is alo a waste. I see to many old males driving a corvette in the slow. They are suppose to drive fast with it. Thats what it's for. My neighbor down the street has a Viper he NEVER drives for about 3 years. That is totally pointless. Cars are suppose to be driven. He should at least have 50,000 miles on it
And when he drives it, he drives slow. Heck, he doesn't even drag race. He's just polluting the air and making ppl die because it's red. You know what they say about red and yellow cars.
If ppl have the money to buy SUVs, well they can buy it. It isn't wrong and I don't see how not driving an SUV can save a persons life.
If thats your case, then old ppl driving exotic/sport cars is alo a waste. I see to many old males driving a corvette in the slow. They are suppose to drive fast with it. Thats what it's for. My neighbor down the street has a Viper he NEVER drives for about 3 years. That is totally pointless. Cars are suppose to be driven. He should at least have 50,000 miles on it
And when he drives it, he drives slow. Heck, he doesn't even drag race. He's just polluting the air and making ppl die because it's red. You know what they say about red and yellow cars.
April-8th-2003, 06:45 PM
#19
Promazda Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Charlotte,NC/Miami,FL
Posts: 417
Re: SUVs
Originally posted by ProtegeMaster
Perhaps scumbag, et al should be categorized in terms of one’s concern over the welfare of others vs. one’s own self engorging interests, coupled with an oblivious, “I’m not thinking about what this does to anyone else” mentality. This presents scumbag behavior in my opinion. Respectfully, what would you call it?
To clarify, those who buy especially luxury SUVs will NEVER, EVER use them for even mild off-road purposes, and the vast majority of them will never, ever tote the cargo and/or people these vehicles were originally intended to carry. What that means is these people are buying, driving, and owning such vehicles for no other purpose other than vanity and an interest in joining the bandwagon of popular, damaging, ego pumping trend, and a false sense of hulking security. When you think logically about what these people are doing, there is no practicality in their purchases, and this lack of prudence hurts other people. Increase the likelihood of accidents, increase your use of fuel (and the dependence on foreign oil that it creates), increase the amount of harmful pollutants spewed into the air (and all of the health consequences directly related to it), and you may begin to evolve a true understanding of what you do when you drive an SUV, especially when you don’t really need to.
It is this that I find reprehensible. I find it reprehensible that indeed otherwise law abiding, decent people would stoop to the level of mindless, self serving interests that hurt other people. This trend serves no practical purpose, which isn’t inherently problematic. It’s serving no practical purpose AND hurting other people that angers me. That’s exactly what luxury SUVs do.
While there’s likely no denying that vehicles of this kind are cool looking, interesting, etc., I’ll not play party to something that is harmful to others just because it’s trendy. I think too much, which is characteristic all too uncommon amongst the general public.
Perhaps scumbag, et al should be categorized in terms of one’s concern over the welfare of others vs. one’s own self engorging interests, coupled with an oblivious, “I’m not thinking about what this does to anyone else” mentality. This presents scumbag behavior in my opinion. Respectfully, what would you call it?
To clarify, those who buy especially luxury SUVs will NEVER, EVER use them for even mild off-road purposes, and the vast majority of them will never, ever tote the cargo and/or people these vehicles were originally intended to carry. What that means is these people are buying, driving, and owning such vehicles for no other purpose other than vanity and an interest in joining the bandwagon of popular, damaging, ego pumping trend, and a false sense of hulking security. When you think logically about what these people are doing, there is no practicality in their purchases, and this lack of prudence hurts other people. Increase the likelihood of accidents, increase your use of fuel (and the dependence on foreign oil that it creates), increase the amount of harmful pollutants spewed into the air (and all of the health consequences directly related to it), and you may begin to evolve a true understanding of what you do when you drive an SUV, especially when you don’t really need to.
It is this that I find reprehensible. I find it reprehensible that indeed otherwise law abiding, decent people would stoop to the level of mindless, self serving interests that hurt other people. This trend serves no practical purpose, which isn’t inherently problematic. It’s serving no practical purpose AND hurting other people that angers me. That’s exactly what luxury SUVs do.
While there’s likely no denying that vehicles of this kind are cool looking, interesting, etc., I’ll not play party to something that is harmful to others just because it’s trendy. I think too much, which is characteristic all too uncommon amongst the general public.
Danny
April-8th-2003, 06:54 PM
#20
formerly chastan
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: California, USA
Posts: 2,350
Couple of things: I don't like SUVs, I know you DO have a right to use your well earned money though. One of the things I kinda find ironic is that I often see one person driving a big ol' Expedition or Excursion, and then I see 6 people crammed into a Toyota Tercel. Eek! Somehow that doesn't seem fair 
However, I did like the looks of the RX300 somewhat, even the later taillights. But if I really thought I'd do some offroading or something I'd just get a Subaru.
RHAGEL: Aren't the inline 6s the same as the ones in the Mark IV Supra? (2jtze?)
However, I did like the looks of the RX300 somewhat, even the later taillights. But if I really thought I'd do some offroading or something I'd just get a Subaru.
RHAGEL: Aren't the inline 6s the same as the ones in the Mark IV Supra?
(2jtze?)
April-9th-2003, 07:04 PM
#21
Demands Perfection
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 344
SUVs
Regarding evidence showing the harm SUVs do to other people:
Every gallon of gasoline burned produces 20 pounds of Carbon Dioxide, which, you may recall, is a Green House gas responsible for the sharp rise in global temperature. Recall also that SUVs burn many more gallons of fuel to travel the same distance than passenger cars. Take, for instance, Glacier National Park, where only a few actual glaciers still exist (the rest are GONE now). Also consider that those still remaining are quickly melting away, and within 10-20 years there will be NO glaciers in a park so named. That’s a terrible shame, and it hurts those who are capable of appreciating the outdoors and the splendor of natural beauty. Maybe some of you don't care about our environment or share an enjoyment of scenic locals, but I do.
Consider that SUVs pump out twice the pollutants of cars. Consider that the incidence of childhood asthma has shown a stunning increase in the last 20 years. Consider that auto pollution is a demonstrated respiratory irritant and poison. It’s components? Ground level Ozone, Nitrogen Oxide, Carbon Monoxide, Carbon Dioxide (see above comment), and dozens of other noxious compounds, many of which lead to acid rain, smog, and damage to man-made structures.
You want more?
Consider that SUV use has increased our dependence on foreign oil, and that the United States is currently waging war in a region rich in this natural resource. Coincidence? I think not, Grover Cleveland. Only a fool would suggest that this conflict has nothing to do with oil. You could say that’s not our primary interest, but it’s at least part of it. I’d say depending on energy from a region that pretty much hates the United States is a little unnerving, wouldn’t you? That hurts people.
Realize that SUVs have a greater incidence of roll over accidents (which kills people), are more likely to kill people in other cars when in an accident, handle poorly compared to cars (which makes avoiding an accident in the first place more difficult), and require considerably longer braking distances that of a passenger sedan. This directly hurts other people. Badly and/or fatally. Get it?
SUVs are larger, take up more room on the road, take up more parking space, and generally make driving a less pleasant experience for everyone else.
All of the health consequences, injury statistics, environmental changes, congestion problems, foreign oil dependency, and energy disparity haven’t happened for no reason. They haven’t simply been pulled out of someone’s ***, they’ve happened for constant, consistent, scientifically demonstrated reasons. Too many people just go about their merry way each day without bothering to think about the consequences of their own actions, and, damn well, there ARE consequences.
I’d say there is overwhelming evidence showing that SUVs hurt other people. It’s as plain as day.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...-exhaust_x.htm
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/rollover/
http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/acidrain/
http://www.progress.org/energy13.htm
http://usinfo.state.gov/topical/glob...y/02062002.htm
http://findaschool.org/~mviron/proto.../suvmyths.html
Almost all people who own and drive an SUV are living in their own little fairy land where nothing they do matters to anyone else, or, even worse, they simply don’t care what happens to other people. That constitutes a shocking, inhuman mentality that I find utterly disgusting and self serving.
Every gallon of gasoline burned produces 20 pounds of Carbon Dioxide, which, you may recall, is a Green House gas responsible for the sharp rise in global temperature. Recall also that SUVs burn many more gallons of fuel to travel the same distance than passenger cars. Take, for instance, Glacier National Park, where only a few actual glaciers still exist (the rest are GONE now). Also consider that those still remaining are quickly melting away, and within 10-20 years there will be NO glaciers in a park so named. That’s a terrible shame, and it hurts those who are capable of appreciating the outdoors and the splendor of natural beauty. Maybe some of you don't care about our environment or share an enjoyment of scenic locals, but I do.
Consider that SUVs pump out twice the pollutants of cars. Consider that the incidence of childhood asthma has shown a stunning increase in the last 20 years. Consider that auto pollution is a demonstrated respiratory irritant and poison. It’s components? Ground level Ozone, Nitrogen Oxide, Carbon Monoxide, Carbon Dioxide (see above comment), and dozens of other noxious compounds, many of which lead to acid rain, smog, and damage to man-made structures.
You want more?
Consider that SUV use has increased our dependence on foreign oil, and that the United States is currently waging war in a region rich in this natural resource. Coincidence? I think not, Grover Cleveland. Only a fool would suggest that this conflict has nothing to do with oil. You could say that’s not our primary interest, but it’s at least part of it. I’d say depending on energy from a region that pretty much hates the United States is a little unnerving, wouldn’t you? That hurts people.
Realize that SUVs have a greater incidence of roll over accidents (which kills people), are more likely to kill people in other cars when in an accident, handle poorly compared to cars (which makes avoiding an accident in the first place more difficult), and require considerably longer braking distances that of a passenger sedan. This directly hurts other people. Badly and/or fatally. Get it?
SUVs are larger, take up more room on the road, take up more parking space, and generally make driving a less pleasant experience for everyone else.
All of the health consequences, injury statistics, environmental changes, congestion problems, foreign oil dependency, and energy disparity haven’t happened for no reason. They haven’t simply been pulled out of someone’s ***, they’ve happened for constant, consistent, scientifically demonstrated reasons. Too many people just go about their merry way each day without bothering to think about the consequences of their own actions, and, damn well, there ARE consequences.
I’d say there is overwhelming evidence showing that SUVs hurt other people. It’s as plain as day.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...-exhaust_x.htm
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/rollover/
http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/acidrain/
http://www.progress.org/energy13.htm
http://usinfo.state.gov/topical/glob...y/02062002.htm
http://findaschool.org/~mviron/proto.../suvmyths.html
Almost all people who own and drive an SUV are living in their own little fairy land where nothing they do matters to anyone else, or, even worse, they simply don’t care what happens to other people. That constitutes a shocking, inhuman mentality that I find utterly disgusting and self serving.
April-9th-2003, 07:41 PM
#22
Protege Progasm
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: MD
Posts: 2,456
Re: SUVs
Originally posted by ProtegeMaster
Regarding evidence showing the harm SUVs do to other people:
Every gallon of gasoline burned produces 20 pounds of Carbon Dioxide, which, you may recall, is a Green House gas responsible for the sharp rise in global temperature. Recall also that SUVs burn many more gallons of fuel to travel the same distance than passenger cars. Take, for instance, Glacier National Park, where only a few actual glaciers still exist (the rest are GONE now). Also consider that those still remaining are quickly melting away, and within 10-20 years there will be NO glaciers in a park so named. That’s a terrible shame, and it hurts those who are capable of appreciating the outdoors and the splendor of natural beauty. Maybe some of you don't care about our environment or share an enjoyment of scenic locals, but I do.
Consider that SUVs pump out twice the pollutants of cars. Consider that the incidence of childhood asthma has shown a stunning increase in the last 20 years. Consider that auto pollution is a demonstrated respiratory irritant and poison. It’s components? Ground level Ozone, Nitrogen Oxide, Carbon Monoxide, Carbon Dioxide (see above comment), and dozens of other noxious compounds, many of which lead to acid rain, smog, and damage to man-made structures.
You want more?
Consider that SUV use has increased our dependence on foreign oil, and that the United States is currently waging war in a region rich in this natural resource. Coincidence? I think not, Grover Cleveland. Only a fool would suggest that this conflict has nothing to do with oil. You could say that’s not our primary interest, but it’s at least part of it. I’d say depending on energy from a region that pretty much hates the United States is a little unnerving, wouldn’t you? That hurts people.
Realize that SUVs have a greater incidence of roll over accidents (which kills people), are more likely to kill people in other cars when in an accident, handle poorly compared to cars (which makes avoiding an accident in the first place more difficult), and require considerably longer braking distances that of a passenger sedan. This directly hurts other people. Badly and/or fatally. Get it?
SUVs are larger, take up more room on the road, take up more parking space, and generally make driving a less pleasant experience for everyone else.
All of the health consequences, injury statistics, environmental changes, congestion problems, foreign oil dependency, and energy disparity haven’t happened for no reason. They haven’t simply been pulled out of someone’s ***, they’ve happened for constant, consistent, scientifically demonstrated reasons. Too many people just go about their merry way each day without bothering to think about the consequences of their own actions, and, damn well, there ARE consequences.
I’d say there is overwhelming evidence showing that SUVs hurt other people. It’s as plain as day.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...-exhaust_x.htm
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/rollover/
http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/acidrain/
http://www.progress.org/energy13.htm
http://usinfo.state.gov/topical/glob...y/02062002.htm
http://findaschool.org/~mviron/proto.../suvmyths.html
Almost all people who own and drive an SUV are living in their own little fairy land where nothing they do matters to anyone else, or, even worse, they simply don’t care what happens to other people. That constitutes a shocking, inhuman mentality that I find utterly disgusting and self serving.
Regarding evidence showing the harm SUVs do to other people:
Every gallon of gasoline burned produces 20 pounds of Carbon Dioxide, which, you may recall, is a Green House gas responsible for the sharp rise in global temperature. Recall also that SUVs burn many more gallons of fuel to travel the same distance than passenger cars. Take, for instance, Glacier National Park, where only a few actual glaciers still exist (the rest are GONE now). Also consider that those still remaining are quickly melting away, and within 10-20 years there will be NO glaciers in a park so named. That’s a terrible shame, and it hurts those who are capable of appreciating the outdoors and the splendor of natural beauty. Maybe some of you don't care about our environment or share an enjoyment of scenic locals, but I do.
Consider that SUVs pump out twice the pollutants of cars. Consider that the incidence of childhood asthma has shown a stunning increase in the last 20 years. Consider that auto pollution is a demonstrated respiratory irritant and poison. It’s components? Ground level Ozone, Nitrogen Oxide, Carbon Monoxide, Carbon Dioxide (see above comment), and dozens of other noxious compounds, many of which lead to acid rain, smog, and damage to man-made structures.
You want more?
Consider that SUV use has increased our dependence on foreign oil, and that the United States is currently waging war in a region rich in this natural resource. Coincidence? I think not, Grover Cleveland. Only a fool would suggest that this conflict has nothing to do with oil. You could say that’s not our primary interest, but it’s at least part of it. I’d say depending on energy from a region that pretty much hates the United States is a little unnerving, wouldn’t you? That hurts people.
Realize that SUVs have a greater incidence of roll over accidents (which kills people), are more likely to kill people in other cars when in an accident, handle poorly compared to cars (which makes avoiding an accident in the first place more difficult), and require considerably longer braking distances that of a passenger sedan. This directly hurts other people. Badly and/or fatally. Get it?
SUVs are larger, take up more room on the road, take up more parking space, and generally make driving a less pleasant experience for everyone else.
All of the health consequences, injury statistics, environmental changes, congestion problems, foreign oil dependency, and energy disparity haven’t happened for no reason. They haven’t simply been pulled out of someone’s ***, they’ve happened for constant, consistent, scientifically demonstrated reasons. Too many people just go about their merry way each day without bothering to think about the consequences of their own actions, and, damn well, there ARE consequences.
I’d say there is overwhelming evidence showing that SUVs hurt other people. It’s as plain as day.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...-exhaust_x.htm
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/rollover/
http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/acidrain/
http://www.progress.org/energy13.htm
http://usinfo.state.gov/topical/glob...y/02062002.htm
http://findaschool.org/~mviron/proto.../suvmyths.html
Almost all people who own and drive an SUV are living in their own little fairy land where nothing they do matters to anyone else, or, even worse, they simply don’t care what happens to other people. That constitutes a shocking, inhuman mentality that I find utterly disgusting and self serving.
I respect your views and I see where your coming from.
But as for me, there is no point in getting so deep into a situation when I know it's not going to change.
And all those example you gave, except for the roll over, can be adressed to high powered sport cars also...
But since none of these things are going to be changed anytime soon, I just live with it.
BTW, thanks for the info, since I did learn something new today.
April-10th-2003, 02:58 PM
#24
Demands Perfection
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 344
SUVs, etc.
In terms of high performance sports cars, you're indeed right about the efficiency similarities inherent between them and SUVs.
I have lesser a problem with sports cars however, as these aren't currently, and never have been, selling in the same staggering numbers as SUVs. Sports cars also don't pose the same safety risks, and they don't take up nearly as much room, be it parking or driving down the road.
As I've said, my biggest problem with the SUV mentality is that it forwards a mindset of taking more than your share of resources, and you're doing so at the expense of others' safety and well being. People do this without either thinking about it or otherwise caring, and that really angers me. I believe it's important to respect and care about people beyond your own back yard-- This constitutes the hallmark of honorable existence; taking care of yourself as much as you try to take care of others. Without wishing to come across as excessively idealistic, what a different world it would be if we all thought this way, don’t you all agree?
Regarding not being able to change things: The ideal of making life better for all of us requires strength and determination beyond complacent resignment-- I would suggest that no one should ever, ever accept injustice, bad policy, or poor personal choices because “that’s the way it is and there’s nothing we can do to change it”. Benjamin Franklin didn’t subscribe to simple acceptance, nor did Martin Luther King Jr., nor Gandhi. In fact, the United States was born of people who believed they *could* change things for the better. Woe to civilized society for those who say they can’t change things. That’s not a place I want to live in.
I have lesser a problem with sports cars however, as these aren't currently, and never have been, selling in the same staggering numbers as SUVs. Sports cars also don't pose the same safety risks, and they don't take up nearly as much room, be it parking or driving down the road.
As I've said, my biggest problem with the SUV mentality is that it forwards a mindset of taking more than your share of resources, and you're doing so at the expense of others' safety and well being. People do this without either thinking about it or otherwise caring, and that really angers me. I believe it's important to respect and care about people beyond your own back yard-- This constitutes the hallmark of honorable existence; taking care of yourself as much as you try to take care of others. Without wishing to come across as excessively idealistic, what a different world it would be if we all thought this way, don’t you all agree?
Regarding not being able to change things: The ideal of making life better for all of us requires strength and determination beyond complacent resignment-- I would suggest that no one should ever, ever accept injustice, bad policy, or poor personal choices because “that’s the way it is and there’s nothing we can do to change it”. Benjamin Franklin didn’t subscribe to simple acceptance, nor did Martin Luther King Jr., nor Gandhi. In fact, the United States was born of people who believed they *could* change things for the better. Woe to civilized society for those who say they can’t change things. That’s not a place I want to live in.
April-10th-2003, 03:03 PM
#25
Trogdor!
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Saskatoon, SK, Canada
Posts: 327
Cue majestic music.
Just kidding, I thought that was well said. Also, the stupid emissions loopholes w/ SUV's b/c they are trucks, sucks. They should start trying to force better emissions and mileage on these things. I am impressed by the Murano, it seems to at least have decent gas mileage, and I am suspecting a mildly polluting exhaust.
Just kidding, I thought that was well said. Also, the stupid emissions loopholes w/ SUV's b/c they are trucks, sucks. They should start trying to force better emissions and mileage on these things. I am impressed by the Murano, it seems to at least have decent gas mileage, and I am suspecting a mildly polluting exhaust.
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