samueh01

I have a 2001 ES with the same 2L engine as the P5. I just want those of you with a P5 to be aware of a problem with the timing of the engine that Mazda has not yet released a fix for yet. I've noticed that when the engine is cold there is a engine ping or rattle at RPMs over 2,000 RPM which gets dramatically worse over 2,500 RPM. When the car is fully warm, the rattle significantly decreases but does not completely disappear. This appears to be a known timing issue. A Mazda M-TIPS information sheet that the Dealer has indicates that the problem is caused by "a timing issue between the VTCS plates opening and an ignition spark advance command when the coolant temperature is below 149 degrees". I'm not sure what the VTCS plates are but this is a known problem with the programming of the ECU of the 2 L engine and Mazda has not yet provided a fix. I was told that reprogramming the ECU requires governmental approval (EPA?). In any case the problem occurs with all 2001 Protege 2L ES models and all 2002 P5s. Unless you go to the dealer and complain they won't contact you with the fix. The noise basically goes away when the car warms up but I worry that excessive acceleration prior to the full warm up might damage the engine over time. All of you with a 2001 2L ES or 2002 P5 should contact the dealer. Just make sure that the car engine is cold when the dealer checks it. Otherwise, I love the car.

SUX 2BU

I heard this rattle on a brand-new P5 (7 kms on it). Right at 2700 rpm like everyone has said. Sounded to me like a loose heat shield or something.

Brubeck

How long does it take the car to warm up enough for the noise to go away?

Also, how long do you let the car warm up before you take off?

-Brubeck

samueh01

The rattle essentially dissappears after the engine reaches operating temperature. According to the M-TIBS, 149 degrees. When the temp gauge reaches the warmed up position then I feel comfortable accelerating. Takesa about 2 to 3 minutes at 40 deg F.

Buttersideup

My car is going into the shop tomorrow to be documented for this problem. The harmonic explaination was never good enough for me...my '93 Miata had the harmonic heat shield problem, but it never went away after heat up. My '99 Miata never did it.

We'll see what they say....if it is a timing issue it could really screw up our engines in the long-run, so it's worth the check-up. Any chance you could scan and post the M-TIPS sheet, samueh01? Nice to see you on this board, too!

dustobub

Yeah, I could never understand the harmonic reason. Why would it rattle just while its cold for a few minutes and then go away. I will call my dealer and maybe stop by later this week. The hard part is going to be showing them because the closest dealer is 20 minutes away and by that time my car is all warmed up.

Dustin

zoltan

Every morning I start my car, let it warm up for a minute ( needle is still on cold ) and I drive, I TOTALLY get a rattle when up around 2500-2700 RPM and it goes away as soon as the temperature gauge is in the middle. I don't think it is HARMONIC related at all, defenitely temperature related...The sound is worse the colder the car is.

I hope they fix it, anyone with this problem should post here so we have proof of the problem so maybe Mazda will get their asses in gear and fix it for us.

Buttersideup

My dealership has confirmed that the rattle is a ECU/VCTS system malfunction. Take your car in, get it documented and a repair will be forthcoming once the proper fix is determined.

samueh01

I would also recommend bringing your car in and complain about the engine rattle problem. Its a timing issue and will require reprograming of the ECU. My guess is that Mazda would like to look the other way on this. The problem is in every 2L 2001-02 Protebe ES and every 2002 Protege5. Only if there are enough complaints will Mazda move quickly with the fix. The M-TIPS describing this dates back to at least Sept. 2001. I've been told for the last few months that the fix would be out next month. Mazda will not contact you with the fix unless you bring the car in and complain. Everyone on this list with 2L cars should be pressuring your Mazda Dealer and Mazda Customer Service in California (with a letter) about the problem. I've had Mazda's since 1979 and they are very good cars. However, every manufacturer (all the other Japanese manufacturers included) have hidden warantees where they will not send out a general notice (too expensive for the bottom line) but will fix a problem for those who complain.

ProtegeMaster

The problem itself sucks, but I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one who's noticed this issue. I mentioned it before among my first posts about my ES when I first got on this forum.



Anyway, if Mazda is aware of this problem and indeed will take steps to fix it if one complains, then I'll hopefully be getting some kind of resolution to this soon, as I've sent them a formal letter complaining about this issue. In it I mentioned the engine noise at cold temperatures, my annoyance at the high RPM issue, the poor placement of the door lock, the center "arm rest" that's too short and low to be of any real use, and the oil dip stick that's too thin and small to be easy to read (Okay, I'm nitpicking, but figured I might as well cover *everything* if I'm going to complain to Mazda officially!).

Who knows if they'll send a reply, but if they do I'll let you guys know what they said, especially about the engine rattle. To be honest, that's really pissed me off: I mean, I expected the engine to be refined and smooth, but instead, when you crank it up in the morning it sounds like a diesel.. or maybe a garbage disposal with a spoon in it-- It's REALLY bad, and I couldn't believe that this is a gasoline engine when I first heard it. What a crock.

Anyway, I'll shut up, now!

samueh01

After I sent in my letter to Mazda complaining about the engine rattle and timing issue I received a call from Mazda Customer service. The people who call won't tell you anything but will say that they received your letter and that if you brought in your car to the Mazda Dealer the dealer will contact you when they have figured out a fix. In my letter I wrote that I was concerned that the problem, which had been going on for months, would rersult in engine damage which would rear itself after the 60,000 mile warranty. Whether my letter would help if that happened is not clear, but the Mazda Customer service person said that they would keep my letter on record in case a problem develoiped. However, the more people who write the more likely they are to provide a fix for the problem. If they don't provide a fix soon (its been 7 months) I'm considering writing Mazda to tell them that I'll contact Consummer Reports with the problem. That might get their attention.

KrisA

Am I the only one with a 2001 ES who does NOT have this problem. I took delivery of my car in July 2001, is it only later cars that have this problem.

How noticable is the rattle? Do you have to have super human hearing to notice it? Or is it easily detected?

dustobub

In the morning when you first turn on your car, if you had the rattle you would notice it, I am assuming you are not blasting the radio. It is not very loud but it is easily noticable.

Dustin

nightowl

i don't notice any rattle either, got my car on november 2nd

mazdaman

I took my 2002 P5 to the dealer to complain about the noise. I was told it had to do with meeting low emmissions in California. When the car is started is has the timing retarded to meet the low emmissions. I sounds like we are all being told a different story. Someone at Mazda needs to get everyone on the same story. I am going to call Mazda in Torrence and register a nasty complaint. After the service manager told me this, we went and started al the P5's on the lot and all of them had the rattle. Maybe if Mazda had put a V6 in the car we wouldn't have anything to complain about.