huh
 

The downshifting problem is news to me. The only thing I can think of is that since the unit is internally belt driven the belt may experience extreme stress from hard downshifting. The pulley is just spinning idley by at cruising speed (blower is off) and then you instantly rev it up hard and throw a load on it....that could cause this type of damage. I do know that GATES makes a full kevlar belt upgrade that is supposedly indestructable. The real die-hard racers use this.

I have a friend with this powerdyne charger on his 308cid mustang with about 500whp and he has had no problems with it at all. I will ask him to see if he's upgraded the belt or not. If so, this upgrade is only about $150 and I'm sure I could do it for anyone who is skeptical about the belt strength. I don't honestly see this as being a problem though.

Also I see you looked into ATI and eaton's products but is there a possiblity of the vortech being able to be used?

ATI is PROCHARGER....ati is the company and the procharger is what they produce. They have a SUPERIOR product in all respects however they are unwilling to even negotiate pricing with me and will force me to charge so much for the kit it wouldn't be worth it.

Powerdyne is a VERY SIMILAR product, both internally stepped up, both self contained, both somewhat small in size both produce massive cfms at low boost. etc...

Vortech is an o.k. blower but they are about 30% more expensive than the powerdynes and not self contained. You would be required to tap into your oil pan and run coolant lines and such....too much of a hassle for the common person who is buyign this kit as a low cost bang-for-buck upgrade. Most people won't have the welders and skill needed to safely and properly tap their pans.

I want something requires almost no modification and can be done by the average guy with tools in their driveway.

Wanted to give this thread a big fat BUMP and a sticky because apparently Ken at ProtegeGarage (my chosen distributor for the kit) has decided this is a dead project. Ken hasn't even spoken with me about this to find out where I was.

The kit is still in the works and I'm really hoping to have it up and running by the end of the year. Finances are just real tight right now and since I'm having to buy everything out of pocket with no support from anyone it's taking a little longer than expected.

My first choice of supercharger manufacturer fell through but I found an almost equal blower in the powerdyne. It's still self contained, makes no noise, requires no maintaince (30K miles needs a belt replaced) can boost up to 9psi (with forged internals and EMS) and makes plenty of power! It's a great blower and it's lower price point will allow me to sell the kit in the $2500 range.

If anyone has any questions about the supercharger project maybe it's a good idea to ask the guy who's building it.

Hey Matt, check this out...
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1497005
installed on a 2.0 8v ABA VW motor....

what the hell is that?!?! that is the strangest looking blower I've ever seen.

Check 'em out, the company name is Bahn Brenner, VW/Audi tuner that has specialized in SC'ong dubs for awhile...I believe its a small roots blower, it shares motor oil, so its not contained, but the price for their whole kit is inline with what you're striving for.

http://www.bahnbrenner.com/bbmservic...ompressor.html

here you go

it looks way huge. it's also not intercooled.

the original G60 was intercooled, Im sure and IC could be added, the TB on an ABA motor is on the left so the discharge is on the left as well, from there you could duct into and IC then back up to the right into our TB....hey its another idea...althought eh output of 12psi would shatter our rods....

it does look like a good solide design but I'm not sure if I want to scrape everything I've done on the kit so far. I have hit no snags so far (other than financially) and I would hate to jinx it by looking into something else right now.

If my design falls through I'll surely give them a more thorough look-see.

I'd be more interested in this project if the AC didn't have to be removed. Removing the AC on my daily driver just isn't an option. Oh well

now im not real familier with the strenth of the 2.0, but what is a safe psi to run on these cars, for turbo, or charger??? cause im sure you could push 10 psi threw it with no real problems.

From what I've read here, our rods are weak and the common theme seems to be 6-10psi max on the stock crap....please correct me if I am wrong.
I dont mind no AC (its 115 with the heat index today and my AC is still not hooked up) the PS I want to keep though, unless we can source a quick ratio manual rack?
Matt, besides figiuring stuff out what all have you gotten done on the SC project? have you gotten to the point of fabing up brackets and so forth? I though you hadn't found the SC to use yet due to lack of manufacturers involvment?

Matt03, would you rather do without power steering? If so I can accomodate you as well. I just HAVE to mount the blower in that location. I was relocating the powersteering pump to the ac location.

GoldPro, psi has nothing to do with airflow...you'd have to know sveral different variables to make an estimate for instance...I could run 16psi on a mitsubishi super16 turbo (very small) but only 8psi on a T3 (much larger). You need to look at CFM rates. For instance the blower I'm looking at is HUGE (airflow wise) so I'd only run about 5psi yet it would still yield the same power numbers as a T-25 (msp) running 12psi.

yeah im aware of the cfm rates, for instance i have a t-25 turbo on my car, and i run 10-12 psi daily, now lets say the 2.0 had the same turbo, what would you say was the breaking point, or safe psi to run???

im just wondering because i hear the 2.0 is weak, didnt know how true this was.

the 2.0L is weak but only due to the lack of proper tuning. I'd say 20psi or so with stand-alone and GREAT tuning. I think Juan at Highboost did this and made almost 300whp.

i was gonna say, go back to page 7 and Matt covers this....did highboost keep the stock rods?

that I'm not sure about.....i thought he did. I know MPNick claimed someoutrageous 400hp number with his MPI tuner but only mentioned the extent of the mods after people started doubting him....it was a completely different motor, forged internals, lower CR, ported and polished head, custom cams, full race exhaust, T4oE turbo, extra injectors, mpi, etc....also, the motor blew about 2 days after those dyno pulls I believe.

I don't really want to discuss EMS in this thread....it's a very sensative subject around me!!


The rods are soft and should be boosted accordingly!!

Roddimus, what are your plans for the exhaust? Headers?

I don't forsee me being able to fork over the money in time, as my $2600 (6 mo) insurance payment) is due here in the next two months. Since loosing my license, I took off intake and exhaust and I guess just plan to build the car NA so your kit will still be adaptable when the time shall come. In regards to exhaust I hope to somehow get a custom exhaust made with the Mazdaspeed (dealer sport exhaust) tip welded to 2.5 or 3" cat back with high flow, or go with JIC 2.4' cat back, which I would rather have, but the law has an adverse affect on my options.

Also, are you planning to use the stageII cams?

The exhaust and headers are not included in the kit and are not required. Headers are recommended. Any time you force that much air into a motor you need to get it out as quickly as possible. I currently use the obx 4-1 header and leaves plenty of room for blower mounting and plumbing.

Cams are not needed. I personally will have custom cams made for my car since I will have a ported head and intake also. I'll need special cams. The kit will be designed for stock cams, exhaust, etc.

I understand those above mentioned items aren't included but I wanted to know YOUR personal plans. You hinted your going custom, are you planning on running stock primary cat, catless, hi-flow? What size piping? And as for the cams, "custom/FI" cams were not needed if I am correct?

I think if I were to have to sacrifice the AC or the powersteering it would be the AC. there's absolutely no way to keep both???

http://www.vf-engineering.com/vw_mk3gti.htm

here's anothe idea....I wish we had this much space to work with

deadlink.

nope, one has to go. There is no room in the engine bay to squeeze anything else in....and still be cost effective and install-able by a common person in their driveway. Remember what my goals were for this kit!!

link works for me...

i guess if i do decide to go for the supercharger I'd lose the AC. i guess i still have some time to think about it huh? how far are you on it?

it won't be ready until at least the end of the year. I've got sell off my other supercharger and stuff to get up enough money to buy the new head unit. Once the head unit is in I'll make the bracket to mount it and the kit should be running. After that it's all just test and tune.

link works Matty, try again

how about an update Matty? interested in knowing where your at with the project

still same place. not enough money to finish getting all of the parts in. I'm about $1000 short. I'm trying to sell my nitrous kit, my mp3 racing harts, my eaton supercharger etc.....I'm doing all I can to scrape the money together to finish it without taking out a loan. I may just get REAL tired of waiting and do it.

well i would love to see this project move along. how much you want for the racing harts?

not much but shipping would be HIGH because they are fairly heavy. I think I may have a local buyer but if it falls through I can let you know.

anarchist, why did you delete your post?

so matty whats your plans with this bigger/smaller option. both using the powerdyne head units? Explain :D

he posted in the wrong thread....Miller was on roofies when he posted.

The 2 kits are basically a 6psi kit and a 9psi kit. I've been working with Powerdyne pretty closely the past few days and their internal development team was sharing with me what they've done on their new 1.6L civic kit. We were comparing notes and they told me that the BD-6 kit produces almost NO increase in air temps. It's not driven off exhaust gas, requires no engine oil, and no coolant and is internally driven off a kevlar Gates belt. The only heat added to the intake is from the slight amount of friction caused by the impeller. They show only a 30* increase in inlet charge temps. For the 6psi kit I don't feel an intercooler will be needed. I will however make this an option for those wishing to intercool. On the 9psi kit it will be included.

I'm trying to make this kit as affordable as possible and I think I'll be able to hit the best price point by making the intercooler an option. Also, anyone who purchases the 6psi kit will be able to upgrade to the 9psi kit for about $850. That will include the new pulley, intercooler and plumbing. It's hard to buy an intercooler for that price and the pulley's cost me about $97.

This is really shaping up to be a great project and I have some big news in the next few weeks and dare I say it.......pictures. There is still a chance I could have it finished in time for me to show it off at NOPI. I'm not holding my breath but if all goes well then a lot of you may get to see the first daily driven supercharged Protege5. :blue:

simply, badass!

:nod:

sorry im still curious but can't find the post I needed in the midst of the 10+ pages.

I remember you saying the original intercooled kit would have similar CFM rating/power output as a .__trim t3 turbo at 15psi. Was this tentative configuration the intercooled kit @ 9psi? If that is the case, just ballparking, I am guessing that is around 220-240 whp??

What numbers are you estimating between the two kits?

Have you mentioned the downshifting/head unit failure issue to powerdyne? I'm not extremely concerned about it, but I am definetly interested in what they have to say.

Also what are you planning to do (personally, on your P5) with the exhaust? I read you had the OBX header and were happy with the cleanance, etc, but are you planning on running 2.5" exhaust? Cats or no?


sorry for all the questions,
you got me hooked :)

Finally found someone to work with ya huh....good!

You guys hear it here first.....I'm shipping out the first blower to DaveB (maker of the famous gauge rings and shorty antennas) so he can design the bracketry needed for everything. He's on vacation for a week so I'm expecting to have the blower back on my motor in about 3 weeks. I really want to get this done in time for NOPI but funds are real low for me right now.

Milmoejoe, yeah, I've spoken with several people at powerdyne. The problem everyone is having with the belts breaking is on the BD-11A. I'm using the BD-600. What they are doing is running higher than 9psi (not recommended by manufacturer). The SC has an internal "step-up" gear drive and these guys are spinning the impeller faster than the bearings can keep up and the bearings drag causing the belt to snap. This is good and bad. Bad because now you have to pull the head and buy a new belt for about $100. Good because a SC car will drive just like it did before the blower in the event the blower belt breaks. What this means is if you break the belt or lose the bearing pack then your car will drive like stock. You're not going to be walking. Gates makes a full Kevlar belt upgrade for about $120 but you won't need it with my kit. The BD-600 blower running 6-9psi will last over 50K miles before ever needing servicing. At that point you're looking at $200 for a full rebuild. While it's somewhat expensive it's nothing compared to the added maintaince of a turbo and the cost of a turbo rebuild.

I plan on replacing my midpipe with a catless piece from Wagner. He still does amazing work and has been crapped out since Nick left him hanging. I'm also just going to stick to a nice smooth 2.5" catback after that. I'll have a 4-1 header and afull 2.5" cat-less exhaust with all mendrel bends...very un-restrictive exhaust. I'm thinking the Racing Beat exhaust.

Also, on a side note. I'm having a hard time finding couplers that match for the piping. The problem is that the blower has a 3.5" inlet and 3" outlet. Since the MAF and TB are small running 3" piping is a waste. I plan on using 2.5" thrroughout. The problem is my silicone hose is blue while the reducers are grey. I wanted everything to match but to buy reducers in the same blue will cost me almost $60 a piece. That's just a waste of money as far as I'm concerned. Any comments on this?

boost is boost, regardless of what color couplers you use....thats my take on it