Custom NA and FI cams for fs-de
February-1st-2006, 12:37 AM
#1
The man behind the mask
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 11,572
Custom NA and FI cams for fs-de
SERIOUS ENQUIRIES ONLY!! No joke. This thread is only for people who are wanting to buy aggressive cams for third gen proteges.
Several people recently have been asking for hot cams for either NA or Turbo cars. If there is enough interest in these I'll go ahead and pay to get everything started on them.
I have a full head and a second set of spare stock cams. I'm going to shop them around to different cam manufacturers and see if they'd like to come up with something specifically for us. Supposedly this is what Wagner did and his cams were in the $550-650 range. Expect these to be about the same price. For reference my j-spec cams were $450shipped. These would be a little more pricey would hopefully justify the price with a hp increase.
The two sets I'll go over making are:
1. Big Street NA cams - These will produce a loping idle, loss of bottom end power with a huge jump up top. If I had to classify them I'd say stage 2.5 cams.
2. Big Turbo cams - These will be optimized to have huge lift and almost no overlap. This will cause off-boost power to be a good bit lower but will aid in spooling the turbo. This is ideal for people wanting to use larger GT28s T3's, T4's etc.
Both of these cams will most likely need the Eibach valve springs to prevent float and stretching in the upper rpms. Last I checked they were $216 and worth every penny.
Right now this is just a GI only as I have no concrete details. This is what I'm wanting to get from the finished product and suggested price. Nothing is set in stone yet. I just want to get this going while I have time on my hands.
SERIOUS PARTIES ONLY...
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
Several people recently have been asking for hot cams for either NA or Turbo cars. If there is enough interest in these I'll go ahead and pay to get everything started on them.
I have a full head and a second set of spare stock cams. I'm going to shop them around to different cam manufacturers and see if they'd like to come up with something specifically for us. Supposedly this is what Wagner did and his cams were in the $550-650 range. Expect these to be about the same price. For reference my j-spec cams were $450shipped. These would be a little more pricey would hopefully justify the price with a hp increase.
The two sets I'll go over making are:
1. Big Street NA cams - These will produce a loping idle, loss of bottom end power with a huge jump up top. If I had to classify them I'd say stage 2.5 cams.
2. Big Turbo cams - These will be optimized to have huge lift and almost no overlap. This will cause off-boost power to be a good bit lower but will aid in spooling the turbo. This is ideal for people wanting to use larger GT28s T3's, T4's etc.
Both of these cams will most likely need the Eibach valve springs to prevent float and stretching in the upper rpms. Last I checked they were $216 and worth every penny.
Right now this is just a GI only as I have no concrete details. This is what I'm wanting to get from the finished product and suggested price. Nothing is set in stone yet. I just want to get this going while I have time on my hands.
SERIOUS PARTIES ONLY...
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
February-1st-2006, 04:52 PM
#2
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lincroft, NJ
Posts: 1,105
You think the turbo cams would work well with the WOMP? I really want a good set of cams but they're hard to come across. I'm definatly interested, it would just be a question if I could get the money...I could definatly have it down the road though. Pending a few things, I'd definatly be interested...
February-1st-2006, 07:11 PM
#3
The man behind the mask
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 11,572
You would use NA cams for a supercharged application.
Turbo cams are designed to reduce overlap to get more pressure in the compbustion chamber. NA cams are designed to move the powerband up into the high range where this SC would make it's power. There will still be some overlap but NA cams would work much better with a centrifugal blower.
Turbo cams are designed to reduce overlap to get more pressure in the compbustion chamber. NA cams are designed to move the powerband up into the high range where this SC would make it's power. There will still be some overlap but NA cams would work much better with a centrifugal blower.
February-1st-2006, 10:48 PM
#5
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Sherwood Park, AB
Posts: 68
Originally Posted by Roddimus Prime
I have a full head and a second set of spare stock cams. I'm going to shop them around to different cam manufacturers and see if they'd like to come up with something specifically for us. Supposedly this is what Wagner did and his cams were in the $550-650 range. Expect these to be about the same price. For reference my j-spec cams were $450shipped. These would be a little more pricey would hopefully justify the price with a hp increase.
1. Big Street NA cams - These will produce a loping idle, loss of bottom end power with a huge jump up top. If I had to classify them I'd say stage 2.5 cams.
Both of these cams will most likely need the Eibach valve springs to prevent float and stretching in the upper rpms. Last I checked they were $216 and worth every penny.
1. Big Street NA cams - These will produce a loping idle, loss of bottom end power with a huge jump up top. If I had to classify them I'd say stage 2.5 cams.
Both of these cams will most likely need the Eibach valve springs to prevent float and stretching in the upper rpms. Last I checked they were $216 and worth every penny.
How much loss are you referring to at the bottom end? How far would this loss extend approximately?
Other than the eibach valve springs, is there anything else you can foresee being required for these cams? Just trying to get a feel for what the ultimate cost may end up being.
Thx Matty!
February-1st-2006, 11:13 PM
#6
The man behind the mask
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 11,572
Cam gears are only used for fine tuning. I'm going to make these "drop in and shim" and thats it.
The valve springs are all you'd need. Retainers are fine but if you could find someone to make oversized valves and port your head for bigger valves that would be great!! (not needed though).
The loss in low end will probably be unnoticeable during daily cruising but if you try stabbing the throttle at 2K it may just fall on its face. The way I've set up the preliminary specs (for testing) is to have the powerband from 2700-7000rpms. It may be that the power doesn't come on until 3000 or so.
I'm working within the compromises of what protege-owners will tolerate.
1. the cams will have to be able to pass emissions
2. a lopey idle is acceptable
3. drop-in and shim replacement
4. more upper rpm power
5. increased redline (approx 7000rpms)
6. for use with stock ecu/stock injectors/stock MAF system
7. MUST USE A HEADER/INTAKE OF SOME SORT (cams are a waste without a header and intake)
other than that I'm asking for the most power possible. Lift is only good for so much and duration will be the tricky part since we will have to experiment with what flows the most.
Andrea, how much are you wanting to spend on a valvetrain package?? I would think cams/springs would run you about $700.... If you're interested in doing this I'll work out a deal with you. Just pm me and cut you a deal on what I get back.
The valve springs are all you'd need. Retainers are fine but if you could find someone to make oversized valves and port your head for bigger valves that would be great!! (not needed though).
The loss in low end will probably be unnoticeable during daily cruising but if you try stabbing the throttle at 2K it may just fall on its face. The way I've set up the preliminary specs (for testing) is to have the powerband from 2700-7000rpms. It may be that the power doesn't come on until 3000 or so.
I'm working within the compromises of what protege-owners will tolerate.
1. the cams will have to be able to pass emissions
2. a lopey idle is acceptable
3. drop-in and shim replacement
4. more upper rpm power
5. increased redline (approx 7000rpms)
6. for use with stock ecu/stock injectors/stock MAF system
7. MUST USE A HEADER/INTAKE OF SOME SORT (cams are a waste without a header and intake)
other than that I'm asking for the most power possible. Lift is only good for so much and duration will be the tricky part since we will have to experiment with what flows the most.
Andrea, how much are you wanting to spend on a valvetrain package?? I would think cams/springs would run you about $700.... If you're interested in doing this I'll work out a deal with you. Just pm me and cut you a deal on what I get back.
February-1st-2006, 11:24 PM
#7
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Sherwood Park, AB
Posts: 68
That's very sweet of you to offer Matty - thank you! I want to pm you about a couple of things actually, not just the cams, but I'm in the middle of packing. I'll be out of town (and may not have access to the internet) for a few days, so I'll pm you when I get back. Is this fine by you?
February-1st-2006, 11:36 PM
#8
The man behind the mask
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 11,572
sure, just whenever. What I'm going to do is go ahead and pay to have the cams made and then when/if you're ready just let me know and I'll work something out with you.
February-2nd-2006, 12:40 AM
#10
The man behind the mask
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 11,572
fo' shizzle Tim-izzle
I'm wondering if there any MSP owners interested in this because I'm going to need someone to test it out. I'm having both cams made at once. I've got a 4-6 day lead time right now and I want results as soon as they're done.
I'm wondering if there any MSP owners interested in this because I'm going to need someone to test it out. I'm having both cams made at once. I've got a 4-6 day lead time right now and I want results as soon as they're done.
February-2nd-2006, 09:27 AM
#11
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 3,186
Ooooh, I like the sound of this.....but my problem isn't so much the money, I could get it together somehow...it's that I am just not knowledgable enough to do the work.
I'd probably have an easier time installing a low-boost turbo or sc...
I'd probably have an easier time installing a low-boost turbo or sc...
February-2nd-2006, 09:36 AM
#12
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lincroft, NJ
Posts: 1,105
Originally Posted by Roddimus Prime
Cam gears are only used for fine tuning. I'm going to make these "drop in and shim" and thats it.
The valve springs are all you'd need. Retainers are fine but if you could find someone to make oversized valves and port your head for bigger valves that would be great!! (not needed though).
The loss in low end will probably be unnoticeable during daily cruising but if you try stabbing the throttle at 2K it may just fall on its face. The way I've set up the preliminary specs (for testing) is to have the powerband from 2700-7000rpms. It may be that the power doesn't come on until 3000 or so.
I'm working within the compromises of what protege-owners will tolerate.
1. the cams will have to be able to pass emissions
2. a lopey idle is acceptable
3. drop-in and shim replacement
4. more upper rpm power
5. increased redline (approx 7000rpms)
6. for use with stock ecu/stock injectors/stock MAF system
7. MUST USE A HEADER/INTAKE OF SOME SORT (cams are a waste without a header and intake)
other than that I'm asking for the most power possible. Lift is only good for so much and duration will be the tricky part since we will have to experiment with what flows the most.
Andrea, how much are you wanting to spend on a valvetrain package?? I would think cams/springs would run you about $700.... If you're interested in doing this I'll work out a deal with you. Just pm me and cut you a deal on what I get back.
The valve springs are all you'd need. Retainers are fine but if you could find someone to make oversized valves and port your head for bigger valves that would be great!! (not needed though).
The loss in low end will probably be unnoticeable during daily cruising but if you try stabbing the throttle at 2K it may just fall on its face. The way I've set up the preliminary specs (for testing) is to have the powerband from 2700-7000rpms. It may be that the power doesn't come on until 3000 or so.
I'm working within the compromises of what protege-owners will tolerate.
1. the cams will have to be able to pass emissions
2. a lopey idle is acceptable
3. drop-in and shim replacement
4. more upper rpm power
5. increased redline (approx 7000rpms)
6. for use with stock ecu/stock injectors/stock MAF system
7. MUST USE A HEADER/INTAKE OF SOME SORT (cams are a waste without a header and intake)
other than that I'm asking for the most power possible. Lift is only good for so much and duration will be the tricky part since we will have to experiment with what flows the most.
Andrea, how much are you wanting to spend on a valvetrain package?? I would think cams/springs would run you about $700.... If you're interested in doing this I'll work out a deal with you. Just pm me and cut you a deal on what I get back.
February-2nd-2006, 08:11 PM
#14
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lincroft, NJ
Posts: 1,105
D'oh! lol
And cruising around MSprotege in the GB/for sale area, which is really all over there is good for, I saw this..... http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showt...hp?t=123624208
Any relation or just pure coincidence? Maybe you guys could go into something together if not already related!
And cruising around MSprotege in the GB/for sale area, which is really all over there is good for, I saw this..... http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showt...hp?t=123624208
Any relation or just pure coincidence? Maybe you guys could go into something together if not already related!