nowkeg

... so my buddy drove at the national level in the showroom stock class... he's a great driver, a great racer and a supa' dupa' friend. i don't think he'll go miata... but how can i convince him to go protege? 5 or otherwise? he is threatening to pick up an si racecar! what this man needs is any competative car and he'll whoop @ss on the track... i just don't want him to do it in an si. i know they make great track cars... but it is just wrong to drive a civic... please help!

funkdaddysmack

So what exactly sucks about hondas? They're reliable, have awesome resale value, have one of the largest aftermarkets for any type of car, and can be made very fast. Sure, they're played out, big deal.

If you're buddy is into racing, as in SCCA, etc. the si (not new si) is one of your best bets. I really don't care what my friends drive. They like my cars, but I'm not going to force them to buy Mazda. I have a friends with a CRX, Civic HB, Integra, GTI, Celica, etc. I really don't care what they drive, and I'm glad they're not snobs and diss on what I drive. Car enthusiasts are car enthusiasts in my book. If my friend was going to get another type of car, I'd be thrilled because then I could learn more about them too.

nowkeg

alright... i don't like hondas... i like the last gen si's and crx's and i also like integras... my favorite bike is a honda vfr, but i would not be caught dead in a honda just because of the image it reflects and because they HAVE been played out. i can respect an educated decition to race (or drive) a civic as in the case of my friend (and many driver friends), but if it dosn't have to be a civic, why make it a civic? dare to be different... i say this as miatas and g3's are common cars too ripping up the autocrosses and road courses (and i see them all the time on the road too) so maybe i am being a bit of a hypocrite. i'm not trying to be an @ss and say hunduh's got junk, i wanna hear why the g3's are the ****. they got pretty good torque mid-range and are nice handlers... but why else?

also resale is good, but bad for me, as i always go used. and i will never ever be caught wearing abercrombie!! no hate, just me...

edit: uh... why is this a sticky? i guess i will let the moderators know...

EDIT EDIT: ok, so i won't report it. moderators, if you could unsticky this thread, that would be great, i don't think it's got to be a sticky. thank you.

carguycw

Resale value? We're talking about a RACE car here, folks.

I'm not sure which "Si" you're talking about, but if your friend's racing Showroom Stock C, he's probably better off with a 99-00 Civic Si than a Pro. Next season, the SCCA is adding weight penalties to cars with "trunk kits" (i.e. fancy aftermarket suspension packages allowed on certain cars). The Protege is already way down on power compared to the Civic Si, and the AWR coilover trunk kit is the main reason the Pro's been so competitive. Add 100 lbs of weight or take away the trunk kit from the Pro, and the Civic will probably walk all over it.

Actually, if you want to keep him in a Mazda, I have two words for him: Spec Miata. If you're not familiar with SM, it's a series where you drive a 90-97 Miata with a "spec" suspension package and very restrictive rules. All the cars are basically the same, so competition is tight, the class is becoming VERY popular, the rules are STABLE unlike Showroom Stock, and there's even an up-and-coming Pro series with prize money! IMHO this class is much cooler than SSC. Check it out.

semtex

when i started to read that i was thinking a dump truck beat a civic in a race!? lol talk bout your slow take off

but yeah test drive both mazda and honda and see what he thinks but there are other cars out there to, sentra maybe? i hear those are pretty dam fast

funkdaddysmack

That's weird, braden has a 2002 spec v and it dynoed at like 146whp with a CAI...

nowkeg

i hear the spec-v's are power monsters. i dunno about on the dyno, but by the seats feel, yeah, it's fast inline... but i'm sure it corners like a hog man... strut tower bars... it's fat *** probably needs it. the si's handle great out of box and is light... doesn't the civic si tenure expire soon though? i hear ya about the showroom stock rules, they seem to change all the time, but i think my friend enjoys this aspect. spec racer is the way to go, either miata or rx-7's. but i kinda like it racing as well, that is racing for wrench heads. i am long ways from racing myself, but if i did, i'd get a p5 and put a cage in it and race it on wkends (towed on my dodge ram quad cab w/ the cummins 5.9 and a manual tranny) and drive it as a daily driver (actually rain time ride since i ride a mtcl on sunny days). but that is what i'd do.

maybe i'll auto-x the protege next season.

obeytheflag

i mostly drive a 94 protege but once in a while i get to drive my bro's 00 civic EX..i like it, but the reliability, and integrity of the civic is lost. there are like just nagging problems, here and there. my protege hardly had any big problems (maybe cuz its made in japan). good thing about the civic is the great aftermarket but i still have a heart for the protege. looking at the downfall of the new civics...i think honda is failing in its reputation. that is my opinion and this comes from just experience. you can diss me that 00 civics are great but ive driven one and experienced the problems firsthand. IM glad i drive a protege.

carguycw

Cars are only eligible for Showroom Stock for 6 years. This fact, plus the instability of the class, is the reason I will never race Showroom Stock. I don't want to shell out the bucks for a NEW car, hack the interior apart to install a cage, bang it up while racing, then have it rendered uncompetitive in 2 years when some new car comes out. If I'm going racing in a close-to-stock, not-very-fast car, I would rather compete in a class with more predictable rules and a much cheaper price of entry- like SM, SRX7, or IT.

carguycw

I don't necessarily think so. Even if the engine's power is overrated, the car is still pretty quick. 146 fwhp is not bad for a $17k car. However, I probably wouldn't buy a Spec V because I don't like the way it looks.

2003ProtegeES

omfg how does a car lose that much HP at the wheels? It just doesnt make since!! Now i know i wont be trading my Pro in for a Spec-V.

nowkeg

as a wrencher i must say that itc seems to be the way to go for starters. if you are rich, than maybe showroom stock. nice thing is you can drive your race car to work and race your daily driver at the track. bad thing is attention from cops, and if you are in a big mess at the track, you gotta take the bus to work or even worse, if you wreck on the street, you have no car to race that weekend!

i didn't know the rules flucuated that much.

carguycw

I wasn't referring to the Showroom Stock rules themselves; I was mainly commenting on the tendency of the SCCA to add new cars to each class and render the existing cars uncompetitive every 2-3 years, leaving competitors with a banged-up, hacked-up white elephant of a racecar. Unless the SCCA classes it well in IT (a big IF) or you manage to sell it to a track or rally driver, your only option is to try and piece it back together well enough to resell it to the public for less than half of the $20k+ you paid to buy and prep it. No thanks.

Yeah, SM and SRX-7 rules vary regionally, but at least the classes are built around ONE car, so you know that you can run the same car next season. To some extent, IT carries the same classing risk as SS, but there are numerous examples of IT cars that have been competitive almost forever (240Z, Volvo 142, VW Golf, etc.)

BTW I don't mean to offend any Showroom Stock racers on this forum; this is just my opinion. YMMV.

BTW Jesse, I like your new sig. I need to work on the other 9.

carguycw

I don't mean to beat this topic to death, but have you seen an SSC Protege? Do you want to drive to work in a car that has a full cage with NASCAR-style door bars, no airbags, no power steering, racing brake pads and 600 lb/in rear springs?

Prepping a road race car to meet the safety rules of almost any modern sanctioning body will eliminate the possibility of comfortable street use. IMHO the days when you could build a road race car that could be comfortably driven every day ended ~15 years ago. Nowadays, it's not realistic unless you are truly hardcore and somewhat nuts. YMMV of course.

nowkeg

[beatingtopic2death] yeah, i've driven an ssc car around the pits... and yeah the seat is tight and getting in and out is a pain in the @ss. but daily driver to me is driving only when it rains hard enough for me to not ride to work/school.[/beatingtopic2death]

[kickingdeadhorse] the cage renders the rear seat useless, but again, for a car that has a/c, working heat, all safety features, showroom stock suspention, oem fly... all you really need is street brake pads and street tires. that and some tae-bo and you got a nice daily driver/weekend race car.[/kickingdeadhorse]

i guess i should mention i drive about 5k miles a year, and ride a motorcycle about 15k miles a year, so daily driver means something completely different than you folks.