what do u think of this tragic incident .....
February-7th-2003, 09:16 PM
#16
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: PA
Posts: 2,339
Originally posted by fossil boy
Wow, Funkdaddy.... with a name like "smack", I thought for sure you were a champion for the needle and the spoon...
The accident is horrific, and I am sure justice will indeed be served.
I don't think too many folks actually want to legalize heroin or cocaine (marijuana, yes, but not the opiates, etc. But, if heroin were legal WOULD this have happened? Who knows.). Much controversy stems from the laws regarding possession/use of drugs, where studies have indicated treatment is a much better alternative than enforcement/incarceration. Especially given the fact we spend billions on a "Drug War" which, by all accounts, we've only lost ground.
Being on drugs, in this instance, is no different than if the driver were drunk. The crime he committed is the resultant behaviour of driving while intoxicated. Manslaughter was committed, regardless of causal circumstances (in other words, one shouldn't use intoxication as an excuse, either). And while drugs played a role here, similar accidents occur elsewhere involving drinking, prescription drugs, and, even senility or old-age for some events. To me it makes no difference whether the individual was stoned or sober, you are responsible for your actions, period.
Wow, Funkdaddy.... with a name like "smack", I thought for sure you were a champion for the needle and the spoon...
The accident is horrific, and I am sure justice will indeed be served.
I don't think too many folks actually want to legalize heroin or cocaine (marijuana, yes, but not the opiates, etc. But, if heroin were legal WOULD this have happened? Who knows.). Much controversy stems from the laws regarding possession/use of drugs, where studies have indicated treatment is a much better alternative than enforcement/incarceration. Especially given the fact we spend billions on a "Drug War" which, by all accounts, we've only lost ground.
Being on drugs, in this instance, is no different than if the driver were drunk. The crime he committed is the resultant behaviour of driving while intoxicated. Manslaughter was committed, regardless of causal circumstances (in other words, one shouldn't use intoxication as an excuse, either). And while drugs played a role here, similar accidents occur elsewhere involving drinking, prescription drugs, and, even senility or old-age for some events. To me it makes no difference whether the individual was stoned or sober, you are responsible for your actions, period.
I've heard all the arguements before, and while some people may think they're valid, I think it's completely ludacris to even think about legalizing anything more than marijuana. Yea, I'm possibly a bit stubborn, but I think I should be. Legalizing these drugs is and insult to the human race. Do people's lives suck this bad that they need to escape to a dreamworld by using drugs (and I guess even alcohol)? Could it be that their lives are deteriorating because of the drugs and or alcohol? I dunno...
Maybe since my life is pretty good I just assume everyone else's lives can't be that bad, and judge them for doing drugs... Probably, I'm a selfish bastard like that.
February-8th-2003, 10:04 AM
#20
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: fayetteville,nc
Posts: 101
man
Ambient, you really need to chill I never sped through the neighborhood. I was the only car on the freeway. I would never do something like that in the busy city streets I have three little brothers two sisters and a nephew I lost my grandfather at 16 an aunt at 8, my grandmother at 23 and recently an aunt at 24, I know death is a terrible thing. Being born In Brooklyn this article really hits home. I think death is too good for this guy. What needs to be done is to have the years of the three dead added up and he should have sloitary confinement for the sum of those years while serving life with no possibility of parole.
Last edited by asobersiii; February-8th-2003 at 10:06 AM.
February-8th-2003, 10:29 AM
#21
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: N.J. now in Charlotte, N.C.
Posts: 238
Originally posted by BadAzz92DX
This is funny...
This is funny...
yo I'm not gonna hate but, man that is not funny what if that was one of your family members that got hit & killed you wouldn't like it would you?
February-10th-2003, 09:36 AM
#23
Thread Killa'
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: k-town, USA
Posts: 326
Originally posted by funkdaddysmack
No, no, no. I hope you're the only one that has thought that of my name, I'm kind of insulted (it's not your fault, I just don't like people thinking badly of me). I've never done any of those fancy drugs, I've only smoked the cheeba like 3 times ever, that was enough for me. I can't decide if your post is pro or con about legalizing drugs, or a mixture of both (I'm pretty freaking tired today, forgive me).
I've heard all the arguements before, and while some people may think they're valid, I think it's completely ludacris to even think about legalizing anything more than marijuana. Yea, I'm possibly a bit stubborn, but I think I should be. Legalizing these drugs is and insult to the human race. Do people's lives suck this bad that they need to escape to a dreamworld by using drugs (and I guess even alcohol)? Could it be that their lives are deteriorating because of the drugs and or alcohol? I dunno...
Maybe since my life is pretty good I just assume everyone else's lives can't be that bad, and judge them for doing drugs... Probably, I'm a selfish bastard like that.
No, no, no. I hope you're the only one that has thought that of my name, I'm kind of insulted (it's not your fault, I just don't like people thinking badly of me). I've never done any of those fancy drugs, I've only smoked the cheeba like 3 times ever, that was enough for me. I can't decide if your post is pro or con about legalizing drugs, or a mixture of both (I'm pretty freaking tired today, forgive me).
I've heard all the arguements before, and while some people may think they're valid, I think it's completely ludacris to even think about legalizing anything more than marijuana. Yea, I'm possibly a bit stubborn, but I think I should be. Legalizing these drugs is and insult to the human race. Do people's lives suck this bad that they need to escape to a dreamworld by using drugs (and I guess even alcohol)? Could it be that their lives are deteriorating because of the drugs and or alcohol? I dunno...
Maybe since my life is pretty good I just assume everyone else's lives can't be that bad, and judge them for doing drugs... Probably, I'm a selfish bastard like that.
Truly, that accident was horrible. But i don't think it has cause only in drug use - people are uncaring jerks regardless of circumstance. Let's see a Football player in TX hit and ran two folks assisting with an accident last Jan. - this isn't the first time of such an occurrence, but I don't think we'll outlaw professional sports any time soon. Last year, the Hollywood melee' of some producers' kid running over a crowd of folks, and as i stated earlier, Little old blue-hairs do this quite frequently.
My point was that we should not succumb to the sensationalism of the media. In this case a tragedy occurred, but the focus is now on heroin. Given that this individual was in an SUV, I am not thinking of some depauperate junkie. Rather, a fucked-up rich kid with no regard for anyone else.
To me, that is the case here - anything else only spoils the jury pool. And I don't know what is worse, someone who is on mind-altering chemicals acting w/o remorse, or someone who is merely trying to protect their career (the football player). That is my point here.
Drugs, in general, have long been a problem and likely always will. By having them illegal seems only to allow the growth of cartels and illegal networks which are more of a hazard. I don't think incarcerating everyone is the answer - this only burdens our legal/prison system, is costly yet not effective, and doesn't improve our society. The arguments for treatment v. jail seem to have merit and may be worth exploring. Amsterdam may be a case study here, since they have long decriminalized drugs.
Most often, my perspective is to allow "the pursuit of happiness" and let folks do whatever, until it impacts others; then, you are responsible for your actions, legally. And rather than initiating scores of laws regulating behaviour, perhaps have treatment and counseling options available, which are far cheaper.
Last edited by fossil boy; February-10th-2003 at 09:55 AM.
February-10th-2003, 10:03 AM
#24
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: PA
Posts: 2,339
Originally posted by fossil boy
Hi Man.... No, I was just kidding with the "smack" thing (though it is rather ironic)... And yes, I am on the fence concerning legalization - I only bring up other questions and concerns to the issue as well as others), because, i think we should carefully weigh all options rather than acting upon emotions with such decisions.
Truly, that accident was horrible. But i don't think it has cause only in drug use - people are uncaring jerks regardless of circumstance. Let's see a Football player in TX hit and ran two folks assisting with an accident last Jan. - this isn't the first time of such an occurrence, but I don't think we'll outlaw professional sports any time soon. Last year, the Hollywood melee' of some producers' kid running over a crowd of folks, and as i stated earlier, Little old blue-hairs do this quite frequently.
My point was that we should not succumb to the sensationalism of the media. In this case a tragedy occurred, but the focus is now on heroin. Given that this individual was in an SUV, I am not thinking of some depauperate junkie. Rather, a fucked-up rich kid with no regard for anyone else.
To me, that is the case here - anything else only spoils the jury pool. And I don't know what is worse, someone who is on mind-altering chemicals acting w/o remorse, or someone who is merely trying to protect their career (the football player). That is my point here.
Drugs, in general, have long been a problem and likely always will. By having them illegal seems only to allow the growth of cartels and illegal networks which are more of a hazard. I don't think incarcerating everyone is the answer - this only burdens our legal/prison system, is costly yet not effective, and doesn't improve our society. The arguments for treatment v. jail seem to have merit and may be worth exploring. Amsterdam may be a case study here, since they have long decriminalized drugs.
Most often, my perspective is to allow "the pursuit of happiness" and let folks do whatever, until it impacts others; then, you are responsible for your actions, legally. And rather than initiating scores of laws regulating behaviour, perhaps have treatment and counseling options available, which are far cheaper options.
Hi Man.... No, I was just kidding with the "smack" thing (though it is rather ironic)... And yes, I am on the fence concerning legalization - I only bring up other questions and concerns to the issue as well as others), because, i think we should carefully weigh all options rather than acting upon emotions with such decisions.
Truly, that accident was horrible. But i don't think it has cause only in drug use - people are uncaring jerks regardless of circumstance. Let's see a Football player in TX hit and ran two folks assisting with an accident last Jan. - this isn't the first time of such an occurrence, but I don't think we'll outlaw professional sports any time soon. Last year, the Hollywood melee' of some producers' kid running over a crowd of folks, and as i stated earlier, Little old blue-hairs do this quite frequently.
My point was that we should not succumb to the sensationalism of the media. In this case a tragedy occurred, but the focus is now on heroin. Given that this individual was in an SUV, I am not thinking of some depauperate junkie. Rather, a fucked-up rich kid with no regard for anyone else.
To me, that is the case here - anything else only spoils the jury pool. And I don't know what is worse, someone who is on mind-altering chemicals acting w/o remorse, or someone who is merely trying to protect their career (the football player). That is my point here.
Drugs, in general, have long been a problem and likely always will. By having them illegal seems only to allow the growth of cartels and illegal networks which are more of a hazard. I don't think incarcerating everyone is the answer - this only burdens our legal/prison system, is costly yet not effective, and doesn't improve our society. The arguments for treatment v. jail seem to have merit and may be worth exploring. Amsterdam may be a case study here, since they have long decriminalized drugs.
Most often, my perspective is to allow "the pursuit of happiness" and let folks do whatever, until it impacts others; then, you are responsible for your actions, legally. And rather than initiating scores of laws regulating behaviour, perhaps have treatment and counseling options available, which are far cheaper options.
I agree that the legal system is fucked up. Famous people break laws all the time and commonly get a slap on the hand compared to us regular joes. I think it sucks ***, they shouldn't have any special rights that we don't... But that's just how it is, I guess. Our society is obsessed with being rich/famous/beautiful. I don't know of any culture that doesn't hold their 'heros' or 'celebritites' above everyone else. It's just the way it is.
At least with me, the heroin didn't really play a major role in my jumping to conclusions. I think anyone who went on a carmageddonish car spree like this should die, regardless of what they were on. I mean, if the guy would have stopped after he hit the first person/people, I wouldn't be so quick to jump to conclusions, it would be almost as if it were an accident.
I also agree that there should be a better way to deal with drugs, but I don't think legalization is the way. There are too many resources (both time and money) spent on the war against drugs, but I can't see that legalizing drugs (except for maybe weed) doing much but causing more problems. Think about it, DUI is a huge problem in the country now. It's illegal as hell, but millions of people still drive after they drink. With drugs, it could be a lot harder to control who is driving under any kind of influence. Not to mention, as drugs become legalized, what's to stop people from trying more (dangerous) types of drugs to experience new highs? I mean, there are a lot of alcohol related deaths in the country (alcohol poisoning, amoung others), and it could only get worse with drugs.
February-10th-2003, 12:03 PM
#25
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: k-town, USA
Posts: 326
Coolio, funkdaddy!!! I am glad neither one of us is arguing here. I have similar feelings as yours, too, but I just don't know what the answer really is!
Obviously, the driver was reckless, but the homicides were not premeditated, thus the charges can only be manslaughter/homicide, maybe perhaps 2nd or 3rd degree murder. Thus no death penalty! While this may seem unfair, it makes sense. Given that the drugs ought not be an issue in this case, then it seems that "reckless endangerment" or "vehicular homicide" are the charges. If this were pursued as a Capital case, then death penalty would then be possibly extended to examples as: Street racing accidents; folks screwing with the Radios/Cells; or eating while driving.
And if we make an exception because of illegal drugs, and have this as a capital offense, then we are only further victimizing Drug Users who often have mental defect or personality weaknesses.
Thus, as bad as it seems for this incident, there is really only so far the Law can go (but that is for our benefit - NOT the junkie's).
And we still have to consider one fact here: heroin IS and always HAS BEEN illegal. Such laws did nothing to prevent this accident. But, keep in mind, i am not a proponent of legalized narcotics (opiates; cocaine), I just don't know if the current status is truly working or worth it.
Obviously, the driver was reckless, but the homicides were not premeditated, thus the charges can only be manslaughter/homicide, maybe perhaps 2nd or 3rd degree murder. Thus no death penalty! While this may seem unfair, it makes sense. Given that the drugs ought not be an issue in this case, then it seems that "reckless endangerment" or "vehicular homicide" are the charges. If this were pursued as a Capital case, then death penalty would then be possibly extended to examples as: Street racing accidents; folks screwing with the Radios/Cells; or eating while driving.
And if we make an exception because of illegal drugs, and have this as a capital offense, then we are only further victimizing Drug Users who often have mental defect or personality weaknesses.
Thus, as bad as it seems for this incident, there is really only so far the Law can go (but that is for our benefit - NOT the junkie's).
And we still have to consider one fact here: heroin IS and always HAS BEEN illegal. Such laws did nothing to prevent this accident. But, keep in mind, i am not a proponent of legalized narcotics (opiates; cocaine), I just don't know if the current status is truly working or worth it.
Last edited by fossil boy; February-10th-2003 at 02:28 PM.
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