kenji4861

I was reading an article about the Mitsubishi company. They had a sentence in there that said, "Like Mazda, Mitsubishi is another 2nd tier company."

And they talked about being way below Honda and Toyota.

1. What does it mean to us that Mazda is a 2nd tier company? Does it mean it's not reliable? Does it mean they don't sell as much?

2. Is there such thing as a 3rd tier company? What is below Mazda or is Mazda in the lowest level already?

MikeD

I don't think that statement should be taken to mean that the quality of Mitsubishi and Mazda cars aren't up to par. I Know Mazda really steps up to the plate offering 3yr and 50,000 mile basic warranties when other makers are only offering 2 yr and 24,000 mile coverage. I do not recall any Mazda products in the past 10 years that haven't received accolades. I interpreted the statement to mean that perhaps in terms of units sold, Mazda and Mitsubishi are second tier. That's an undeniable fact. Toyota and Honda will sell the hell out of cars purely based on their long standing reputation. Just cause Honda and Toyota can sell a hell of a lot of cars doesn't necessarily mean that they are better. I'll take a Mazda anyday. It's kinda like Denny's restaurant. They're all over the place and sell a hell of alot of breakfasts, but the dive joint down the road may be less well known and serve even better breakfasts. Ah yes...food!
If I had to guess, perhaps Kia and Daewoo would be on the top of my Third tier list. Although they do offer very good warranties now. I don't own one of these makes so cannot make assumptions on their quality, but I wouldn't find any logic in a company offering long term warranties on their cars if they didn't feel they were quality.

MikeD

You have to assume Gro Harlem that this article is only referring to the Japanese makes. With this in mind, Honda and Toyota are the big sellers (1st tier) and Mazda and Mitsu are 2nd tier.

Now if you throw in the US cars (which are crepe, poo, whatever you wanna call em), things change a bit. And not because they are better you diehard american car fools. If I upset anyone owning an American car..tough. But the only reason Chrysler, Ford, and GM may be considered 1st tier based on the stats you provide below is b/c they are putting their dirty little hands into every car company (read COMPETITION) to inflate their sales figures. (Chrysler for example and their part-ownership of Mercedes Benz, Ford with their part ownership of Mazda, and Ford with their part ownership of Jaguar.) If you ask me, it's a clear cut case of " if you can't beat em (Jap cars), join em (buy em up). Sure the American car companies say they enter into these partnerships to slash R&D costs and to save money by using common components...but have you seen the cost of cars drop because of these supposed savings? Hell no. I just hope the American car companies don't take over the design houses for the Jap cars otherwise we'll all be driving AZTECS.

tresdos3

im my opinion being a second tier company..can also be taken in terms of technological knowhow and innovation. If this is the case then without a doubt honda/toyota leads the pack in terms of engine/drivetrain technology e.g vtec and vvitl..which are their main competencies from which competitive advantage is derived

yes you may say..mazda has the rotary..but there has not been revolutionary developments with this engine..if there was then we'd probably all be driving one..

the same can be said for subaru..their main competency is awd
while i'm proud of my mazda ..and will race any riced out civic anyday..i'm not stupid enough to say that mazda is in the same ballpark as honda in terms of engine development..

by the way here in australia..mitsubishi does not have a very good reputation...indeed many of their engines are what keeps mechanics in business..mazda howver has a very good rep in terms of build quality..which in my opinion is mazda's core competency

StuttersC

I think the RX-8 improves on the rotary. But the rotary was designed back in the early 50's I think. And not used in cars until the early 60's. (Dont' quote on me this, as I am not a Mazda expert, nor a rotary expert)

And as far as "variable valve timing" BMW I think just took the cake with their new system that is coming on the new 7 series, and then soon to be all BMWs.

Instead of VTEC or VVTiL or what ever, which just changes timing of a cam or the lift a little, the Valvetronic (I think it's called) system from BMW actually changes the lift of the valve for the driving condtions to optimize fuel and power. No other system on the market that I know of can do that.

I saw something about it on Speedvision and then saw something about in SCC. I think SCC went a little extreme but, it is a pretty neat system.

ron s

I do not have the specific article to reference, but talk of first tier, second tier, and so on generally refers to the company's position in the world wide automotive market.
First tier companies would be companies such as: Ford, General Motors, DaimlerChrysler, Volkswagen Group, Toyota, and Renault. Describing as a company as second tier does not mean the product lacks quality or technological innovation - it only means the product is not delivered to as many people world wide.
Yes people there is a world out there this planet is not completely North American centric.

tresdos3

the man>>>>it is true that most companies have brought out their own version of vtec..however it was honda who came out with this breakthrough..and honda development culture mandates that any technology more than 3 years old be sold off e.g. like they did with vtec to mitsubishi...

i also mentioned toyota because they have taken honda's lead and taken it further..

ron s>>>>remember that i said "in my opinion" and "can be taken to mean"..furthermore in my opinion its contentious what "ist tier" means..thus you can take it how you want to