FWD vs. RWD
November-17th-2002, 07:44 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 1,111
FWD vs. RWD
Can anyone tell me the pros and cons of having a front wheel drivetrain like we have? Everyone says if the car has front wheel drive then they wouldn't put a lot of money into it. I know there is some torque steer, but can't a limited slip differential fix that? Thanks for your guys' input! 
November-17th-2002, 08:31 PM
#2
Protege Enthusiast
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 70
fwd better for snow than rwd and general all around driving for liek a family car not that many other plus'es than i cna think of and its cheaper cus u dont need a driveshaft going all the way to the rear of a car with a differential back there
awd great for snow and rallying also good in rain and other weather conditions. but a lot of loss through the drivetrain, the 2.5rs has like a 30% drivetrain loss. but awd is great out of the hole
rwd better for speed, burnouts, and oah yeah, drifting!!!!!!!!!!
awd great for snow and rallying also good in rain and other weather conditions. but a lot of loss through the drivetrain, the 2.5rs has like a 30% drivetrain loss. but awd is great out of the hole
rwd better for speed, burnouts, and oah yeah, drifting!!!!!!!!!!
November-17th-2002, 08:43 PM
#3
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,130
FWD is better in the snow. And ur *** end wont kick out around corners when u give it some gas in the rain. RWD is better for racing because when u jam the car off the line all the weight gets pushed to the back tires giving u better traction. and a FWD it kinda lifts ur front end and makes ur tires hop and spin easy. A LSD is nice but expensive and ive heard its hard to install. But RWD is awesome cause u can drift. Depends what u want a i guess
November-18th-2002, 07:51 AM
#4
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Central New York
Posts: 1,241
for those of you that have never driven RWD in the snow, FWD is not really much better. and i bet most of you don't drive your FWD car the way it should be driven when driving in the snow. with FWD, when the car starts to slide you are supposed to give it MORE throttle to pull you through. however, the natural human tendancy is to let off on the throttle, not give it more. if you let off on the throttle with FWD, the car will continue in it's slide. if you let off on the throttle with RWD when in a slide, it will straighten it self out. also, with a good balanced RWD car, it is even more easy to drive in the snow.
November-18th-2002, 08:35 AM
#5
Trogdor!
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Saskatoon, SK, Canada
Posts: 327
I hear yah, tweak the throttle and grab the ejector seat/e-brake handle, that'll straighten your car out quickly. I don't know how many donuts it took before I figured the whole "add gas" theory on my own.
November-18th-2002, 08:48 AM
#6
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 1,122
Quickie plus-minus list...
FWD For:
1) Easier to control on low-traction surfaces for average drivers(somewhat of a matter of opinion)
2) Generally more predictable handling for average drivers (also a matter of opinion)
3) Cheaper to manufacture because engine, tranny and drivetrain are installed as a unit
4) More interior and trunk space because entire drivetrain is under the hood
FWD Against:
1) Less traction during hard drag-race launches
2) U-n-d-e-r-s-t-e-e-r under road-race conditions
3) Generally harder to repair because everything is crammed closer together (this is very dependent on individual car design however)
4) Harder to steer with the throttle
5) Tend to break more parts when involved in a front-end wreck (higher insurance, cops don't like 'em )
6) Torque steer
Also, installing an LSD in a FWD car usually makes torque steer WORSE and causes front-end wander in low-traction conditions because the LSD directly affects the steered wheels when it locks or unlocks. The solution to this is to use an LSD that won't lock up until it experiences huge amounts of slip (Nissan viscous LSD's) or to use expensive helical gear designs (Integra Type R). BTW the C&D road test reports of the MSP and Sentra SE-R Spec V (both of which have LSD's) complained about the extra torque steer.
FWD For:
1) Easier to control on low-traction surfaces for average drivers(somewhat of a matter of opinion)
2) Generally more predictable handling for average drivers (also a matter of opinion)
3) Cheaper to manufacture because engine, tranny and drivetrain are installed as a unit
4) More interior and trunk space because entire drivetrain is under the hood
FWD Against:
1) Less traction during hard drag-race launches
2) U-n-d-e-r-s-t-e-e-r under road-race conditions
3) Generally harder to repair because everything is crammed closer together (this is very dependent on individual car design however)
4) Harder to steer with the throttle
5) Tend to break more parts when involved in a front-end wreck (higher insurance, cops don't like 'em
)6) Torque steer
Also, installing an LSD in a FWD car usually makes torque steer WORSE and causes front-end wander in low-traction conditions because the LSD directly affects the steered wheels when it locks or unlocks. The solution to this is to use an LSD that won't lock up until it experiences huge amounts of slip (Nissan viscous LSD's) or to use expensive helical gear designs (Integra Type R). BTW the C&D road test reports of the MSP and Sentra SE-R Spec V (both of which have LSD's) complained about the extra torque steer.
November-18th-2002, 12:12 PM
#7
Protege Enthusiast
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: MN
Posts: 147
RWD IS SUPERIOR IN ALL CASES
Why? Dont gimme this bullshit about "it depends on the scenario"
Scenario : WINTER
Facts :
When you are in an uncontrollable situation, RWD is better since you can have more control over the direction the car is pointed. Let off the gas to slow the spin, floor it to keep it going. You have to learn to control your speed with the steering wheel and steering with the accelerator. IF YOU CAN DO THIS, RWD IS SUPERIOR.
FWD is pure ****. If you're out of control, you have NO WAY of pointing your car. IE. I was driving my mom's geo prism and hit some ice. 12 o'clock, lampole. Problem, turning the wheels does NOTHING. smashing brakes does NOTHING. solution: turn the wheels and floor it so i can get some sort of motion anti-parallel to the lightpost. NEXT, pull ebrake to SWING car AROUND lampost. Conclusion, simulation of RWD can save a car with FWD BUT RWD is still superior.
Scenario : RACING
FWD understeers. NOTICE SIMPLE PHYSICS. Inertia and rotation cause ALL cars to "squat" on the rear wheels. Loss of energy on FWD since the power is at the front.... often leads to excessive tire squeel and adds to your time. Also.... torque steer
. Understeer often leads to slower exit speeds from a corner.
RWD, oversteer as is needed to point the car on the track. Launches much better. Easier to control your line of a curve. Drift racing is MUCH easier....
Conclusion.... obvious
Scenario : EVERYDAY DRIVING (normal weather)
FWD...usually accompanied by needing mroe revolutions of the steering wheel to make a turn. Torque steer. Car is less responsive to drivers' needs. Unwanted loss of traction when starting under WOT. Better straight line stability since car is less responsive to driver commands and understeer helps resist motion not in a straight line.
RWD.... quickly responds to driver commands. Easier to point car where you want it to go. To a better driver, easier to control.
Standpoint : ENGINEERING
FWD... easier to mass produce sice engine and tranmission are mated. Better fuel efficienc since power loss due to drivetrain is less. Frontal collisoins cause more damage (good to unsurance and manufacturer, bad for YOU). More interior room since transmission and driveshaft are not under cabin. General maintenance is shifted fromt eh public sector to teh private (mechanics). Detrimental to "performance" drivign.... phyisics 101
:
RWD : Rear wheels make more efficient use of power. Characteristics of the car's behavior are more predictable. Less fuel efficient. Beneficial to "performance driving." Harder to manufacture. Easier for the common person to work on (less **** under hood).
optimum configuration would be a 50/50 weight balance and RWD (kind of like ALL RX-7's)... If you asy that FWD is better for ANY reasons other than fuel efficiency and cargo space and other "practical things," then your arguments are baseless.....
Why? Dont gimme this bullshit about "it depends on the scenario"
Scenario : WINTER
Facts :
When you are in an uncontrollable situation, RWD is better since you can have more control over the direction the car is pointed. Let off the gas to slow the spin, floor it to keep it going. You have to learn to control your speed with the steering wheel and steering with the accelerator. IF YOU CAN DO THIS, RWD IS SUPERIOR.
FWD is pure ****. If you're out of control, you have NO WAY of pointing your car. IE. I was driving my mom's geo prism and hit some ice. 12 o'clock, lampole. Problem, turning the wheels does NOTHING. smashing brakes does NOTHING. solution: turn the wheels and floor it so i can get some sort of motion anti-parallel to the lightpost. NEXT, pull ebrake to SWING car AROUND lampost. Conclusion, simulation of RWD can save a car with FWD BUT RWD is still superior.
Scenario : RACING
FWD understeers. NOTICE SIMPLE PHYSICS. Inertia and rotation cause ALL cars to "squat" on the rear wheels. Loss of energy on FWD since the power is at the front.... often leads to excessive tire squeel and adds to your time. Also.... torque steer
. Understeer often leads to slower exit speeds from a corner. RWD, oversteer as is needed to point the car on the track. Launches much better. Easier to control your line of a curve. Drift racing is MUCH easier....
Conclusion.... obvious
Scenario : EVERYDAY DRIVING (normal weather)
FWD...usually accompanied by needing mroe revolutions of the steering wheel to make a turn. Torque steer. Car is less responsive to drivers' needs. Unwanted loss of traction when starting under WOT. Better straight line stability since car is less responsive to driver commands and understeer helps resist motion not in a straight line.
RWD.... quickly responds to driver commands. Easier to point car where you want it to go. To a better driver, easier to control.
Standpoint : ENGINEERING
FWD... easier to mass produce sice engine and tranmission are mated. Better fuel efficienc since power loss due to drivetrain is less. Frontal collisoins cause more damage (good to unsurance and manufacturer, bad for YOU). More interior room since transmission and driveshaft are not under cabin. General maintenance is shifted fromt eh public sector to teh private (mechanics). Detrimental to "performance" drivign.... phyisics 101
:RWD : Rear wheels make more efficient use of power. Characteristics of the car's behavior are more predictable. Less fuel efficient. Beneficial to "performance driving." Harder to manufacture. Easier for the common person to work on (less **** under hood).
optimum configuration would be a 50/50 weight balance and RWD (kind of like ALL RX-7's
)... If you asy that FWD is better for ANY reasons other than fuel efficiency and cargo space and other "practical things," then your arguments are baseless.....
November-18th-2002, 01:47 PM
#8
Protege Enthusiast
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: MN
Posts: 147
Well, i guess since yuo are a great protege forum mod, you MUST be smarter than all the engineers and racing greats that designed cars.
I mean LeMans... the 787B, M3, Corvette, Porsche... **** THEY WERE ALL WRONG!! GO OUT NOW!! GO AND TELL THEM THEIR FOLLEY!! STOP MAKING YOUR RACE CARS RWD!!!!!!
ANd NO i didnt WRECK THE GEO, i SAVED it... i KNOW how to drive a FWD AND a RWD in snow... i'm just saying that RWD is better.. which it is.
But hey, i guess you're right. ****, imagine how much faster F1 cars would be with a FWD configuration......
And i guess you can control the laws of phyiscs too :roleyes: i mean man, FWD sure do oversteer. That must be why in the 70's most cars wre RWD and they had to SURPRESS the oversteer tendancy to make them ride like moving couches. GUESS TEHY WERE WRONG!!! TEHY SHOULD HAVE INDUCED MORE OVERSTEER!
I mean LeMans... the 787B, M3, Corvette, Porsche... **** THEY WERE ALL WRONG!! GO OUT NOW!! GO AND TELL THEM THEIR FOLLEY!! STOP MAKING YOUR RACE CARS RWD!!!!!!
ANd NO i didnt WRECK THE GEO, i SAVED it... i KNOW how to drive a FWD AND a RWD in snow... i'm just saying that RWD is better.. which it is.
But hey, i guess you're right. ****, imagine how much faster F1 cars would be with a FWD configuration......
And i guess you can control the laws of phyiscs too :roleyes: i mean man, FWD sure do oversteer. That must be why in the 70's most cars wre RWD and they had to SURPRESS the oversteer tendancy to make them ride like moving couches. GUESS TEHY WERE WRONG!!! TEHY SHOULD HAVE INDUCED MORE OVERSTEER!
November-18th-2002, 02:08 PM
#9
Trogdor!
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Saskatoon, SK, Canada
Posts: 327
TEHY should learn how to spellcheck. :roleyes:
I agree w/ Pseudo, way easier to drive FWD in winter, you can pull out of fishtails (both intentional and accidental) easier with a FWD than a RWD.
Racecars may be the best performers, until there is a smidgen of inclement weather. I have never seen F1 in the snow. Don't confuse the track with the street.
I personally like FWD, b/c it is more idiot proof and predictable. I don't race or drag, so I don't need the benefits of RWD.
I agree w/ Pseudo, way easier to drive FWD in winter, you can pull out of fishtails (both intentional and accidental) easier with a FWD than a RWD.
Racecars may be the best performers, until there is a smidgen of inclement weather. I have never seen F1 in the snow. Don't confuse the track with the street.
I personally like FWD, b/c it is more idiot proof and predictable. I don't race or drag, so I don't need the benefits of RWD.
November-18th-2002, 02:37 PM
#11
I Can Be Teh W1N!!!!
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,870
the best is having both, like on the Skyline GT-R
its 100% RWD most of the time because RWD gives you a little more traction when accelerating but when your on gravel/snow it will transfer a little power to the front wheels for more traction
its 100% RWD most of the time because RWD gives you a little more traction when accelerating but when your on gravel/snow it will transfer a little power to the front wheels for more traction
November-18th-2002, 03:37 PM
#12
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,130
Where did u hear RWD is better in the snow? I wanna see u make it up a 35 degree hill in Conneticut with a late 80's rx7.. If my brother finds this post im sure he will agree getting that 87 rx7 out of the back yard in that snow storm was a hell of a project. The only car ive heard that is great in the snow is like old RWD rear engine bettles cause the weight was over the tires ..Jon 93 lx
November-18th-2002, 04:54 PM
#13
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 1,122
Originally posted by PseudoRealityX
<snip>
"more predictable" is simply not true for the masses of people. Watch most non-enthusiasts encounter an emergency situation. FWD is more "idiot proof".
Also, FWD is easier to recover from a loss of control. If in a slide with a RWD, both braking and throttle will produce MORE sliding. In a FWD, adding throttle will produce less sliding.
My conclusion is that youre simply biased and dont have much of the needed information.
<snip>
"more predictable" is simply not true for the masses of people. Watch most non-enthusiasts encounter an emergency situation. FWD is more "idiot proof".
Also, FWD is easier to recover from a loss of control. If in a slide with a RWD, both braking and throttle will produce MORE sliding. In a FWD, adding throttle will produce less sliding.
My conclusion is that youre simply biased and dont have much of the needed information.
I have owned a variety of RWD cars (2 Miatas, 2 RX-7's and a Datsun 240Z) and although I like RWD better on the track, FWD is easier to control on the street. Controlling a RWD car in a low-traction situation is often a matter of artistically sliding the car the way you want it to go, which is great fun if you're used to doing it, but requires lots of skill and practice. Dre2ooo, I notice you are a RWD car junkie from Minnesota, so I assume you know how to do it. Good for you.
However, most drivers do *not* know how to slide or drift a car with precision and style. For them, FWD is better because it's more predictable. Point the car the direction you want it to go. Depress throttle. If the car runs wide, decrease throttle. If the tail wags, increase throttle and countersteer. It's easy and the car will usually react the same way every time. The front-heavy weight distribution tends to maintain traction at the steered wheels and keeps the car pointed in the direction it's steered.
November-18th-2002, 06:24 PM
#14
Certified Sick Individual
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Houston, TX.
Posts: 1,141
One of the biggest reasons performance cars like the M3 are RWD is that its pretty frickin hard to get 50/50 weight distribution with the entire drivetrain in the front of the car. Thus they do cool stuff like mounting the tranny towards the rear and the heavy differential on the back. Then they tune the hell out of the suspension to take advantage of it. Not that I'm necessarily saying FWD is better. But it is good for the novice.
And that crap about RWD being easier than FWD to work on is BS. The only easy to work on RWD I have ever seen is an older car or truck (I could stand in my friends' malibu's engine compartment). The new ones all compact the crap in there as much as they can to shorten the length of the hood making them just as much of a pain to work on. And I've never owned a car with the spark plugs on the top of the frickin motor. To me that was the sweetest frickin thing ever after owning the Ranger (where you have to change 8 spark plugs on the 2.3L).
And that crap about RWD being easier than FWD to work on is BS. The only easy to work on RWD I have ever seen is an older car or truck (I could stand in my friends' malibu's engine compartment). The new ones all compact the crap in there as much as they can to shorten the length of the hood making them just as much of a pain to work on. And I've never owned a car with the spark plugs on the top of the frickin motor. To me that was the sweetest frickin thing ever after owning the Ranger (where you have to change 8 spark plugs on the 2.3L).
November-18th-2002, 09:00 PM
#15
YEAH WOW CHILDISH!
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: under your bed
Posts: 1,727
I cant believe you just said rwd is better in the snow. are you on drugs. as itzkcatz stated its a biach to even move a rwd in the snow i had to cover my driveway in freaking plywood just to get it outa the freaking yard. no if i backed my pro down there it would have come out no problem. and dont try this well you dont know how to drive a rwd car crap. YOUR JUST WRONG!!!