Ford: new mistake or cash cow
June-23rd-2003, 10:44 AM
#2
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Dallas, Tx
Posts: 125
aside from trucks how many AWD trannys have ford made?
very few AFAIK.
AWD trannys are hard to make them last through a beating. I dunno. We are just gonna have to wait and see what happens. My bets is more on the boom than the zoom.
very few AFAIK.
AWD trannys are hard to make them last through a beating. I dunno. We are just gonna have to wait and see what happens. My bets is more on the boom than the zoom.
June-23rd-2003, 11:31 AM
#3
Certified Sick Individual
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Houston, TX.
Posts: 1,141
I had heard of the car, but I still think it is pretty unlikely that it will come stateside. If it does then that would be something to buy. Cosworth makes awesome engines and AWD setups.
Ford has had a good amount of experience with AWD, especially in racing. The X-Type, Explorer, all of Land Rover, and Volvo all have AWD systems available. But I'm betting most of the work on that came directly from Cosworth, which happens to be Ford's WRC supplier (as well as being owned by them).
Ford has had a good amount of experience with AWD, especially in racing. The X-Type, Explorer, all of Land Rover, and Volvo all have AWD systems available. But I'm betting most of the work on that came directly from Cosworth, which happens to be Ford's WRC supplier (as well as being owned by them).
June-23rd-2003, 12:44 PM
#5
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 1,122
I think the chances of Ford selling it here are actually pretty good. Everybody and his dog is trying to cash in on the "import racer" trend, and Ford has shown a definite willingness in recent years to take a loss developing and selling "halo effect" cars in the States (Cobra R, T-bird, upcoming GT, etc.)
However, if they DO sell it, I have several prophecies based on their other recent "halo" cars...
1) Production will be limited to less than 5000 to drive up demand.
2) Only certain dealers will get them.
3) Price will be lower than the Evo or STi, but this will be almost meaningless because 9 dealers out of 10 (10 out of 10 in major metro areas) will mark them up.
We'll see.
However, if they DO sell it, I have several prophecies based on their other recent "halo" cars...
1) Production will be limited to less than 5000 to drive up demand.
2) Only certain dealers will get them.
3) Price will be lower than the Evo or STi, but this will be almost meaningless because 9 dealers out of 10 (10 out of 10 in major metro areas) will mark them up.
We'll see.
June-23rd-2003, 01:50 PM
#7
Smoking or Non-Smoking???
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Philly
Posts: 731
i don't know, i'd get a pretty dry feeling getting an evo VIII or a suped up 'stock' car, feeling like there ain't much left you can do with these cars to make them go faster without exploding. personally, watching somebody strip the panels off a focus, welding a steel frame out of square tubing and slapping a jet turbine into it and calling it a focus just makes me sick, and SO does a suped up focus. they're ugly cars, hell, dealer around me is selling a 2002 focus with 10,000 miles on it for 8 grand... i severely doubt the value of a turboe'd focus, let alone the various meat dicks out there that had the great idea to slap a small block 350 into one and sell the kit so other meat dicks could have at it. it's ford, it's fugly, keep it off my side of the ocean! IMHO of course 
peace
peace
June-23rd-2003, 01:59 PM
#8
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: PA
Posts: 2,339
I think they're pretty cool, I wouldn't be suprised if ford brought it over. The domestic car makers seem to be willing to put more on the line for what the entusiasts want. Like the SRT for example, and even the Focus SVT... They've been around for a while, and mazda (for example) is really lagging behind in terms what the public wants, and more cases than not it's POWER.
I mean, the MSP has the same amount of power as the Focus SVT, although the torque is obviously different, but they have the same displacement. That's totally weak. ****, even the Spec-V has comparable power (although the displacement is higher, i think). Sure it handles freaking awesome, but people are saying the exact same things about it as the MP3, "great car, but needs more power". In all fairness, it seems the 3rd gens have a faily limited platform, be it engine, or transmission related. I really wish Mazda would just OVER-compensate for the enthusiast crowd, make sure their trannies are good and strong, etc.
The RX-8 it also a sort of disapointment. Once again, great handling car, but the torque is non-existant. Granted, they're probably going to see how well the Renesis does for a couple of years, but they don't have any official plans of putting in a turbocharger yet.... I think that's totally BS. ****, put in even a small turbo to get some nice low-end torque and still bump the output to around 300hp...
Ehhhhhhhhhhhh..... Yea, I know power isn't everything... And we'd be bitching if our cars were fast and handeled like ****... But since we know mazda can put a hell of a chassis together, why the **** don't they put some of their engineering expertise towards engine design. There are quite a few manufacturers out there that have great engine platforms, like Toyota's (1zz and 2zz), and probably the mother of them all, the Nissan VQ. I think mazda could seriously corner the world's enthusiast market with putting some power into their already stellar chassis design. Think of all the aftermarket support then! (and riceboys )
I mean, the MSP has the same amount of power as the Focus SVT, although the torque is obviously different, but they have the same displacement. That's totally weak. ****, even the Spec-V has comparable power (although the displacement is higher, i think). Sure it handles freaking awesome, but people are saying the exact same things about it as the MP3, "great car, but needs more power". In all fairness, it seems the 3rd gens have a faily limited platform, be it engine, or transmission related. I really wish Mazda would just OVER-compensate for the enthusiast crowd, make sure their trannies are good and strong, etc.
The RX-8 it also a sort of disapointment. Once again, great handling car, but the torque is non-existant. Granted, they're probably going to see how well the Renesis does for a couple of years, but they don't have any official plans of putting in a turbocharger yet.... I think that's totally BS. ****, put in even a small turbo to get some nice low-end torque and still bump the output to around 300hp...
Ehhhhhhhhhhhh..... Yea, I know power isn't everything... And we'd be bitching if our cars were fast and handeled like ****... But since we know mazda can put a hell of a chassis together, why the **** don't they put some of their engineering expertise towards engine design. There are quite a few manufacturers out there that have great engine platforms, like Toyota's (1zz and 2zz), and probably the mother of them all, the Nissan VQ. I think mazda could seriously corner the world's enthusiast market with putting some power into their already stellar chassis design. Think of all the aftermarket support then! (and riceboys )
June-23rd-2003, 05:12 PM
#9
WiCky=))
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 883
The Sentra SE-R Spec V makes about the same as the MSP to the wheels, and it's a 2.5 four. Actually, I would think the MSP is powerful enough. People who usually say the car lacks power are automotive journalists who of course say cars in the econobox range are slow. I would too after driving a Ferrari Enzo, then going to a MSP.
I think this is largely a result of the North America's love of drag racing, and basically how fast the car goes in a straight line. Read any European/Asian automotive magazine, like Britian's CAR for instance and you'll see that good handling cars are mostly praised, and handling is prioritized over straight line speed. They will even say a Focus with a 1.6 engine is enough power.
Unless you go drag racing or street race at stoplights (which I seriously discourage people to do) I see no need for the MSP to have any more power. I think a car that has 170hp and 160lb feet of torque is more than enough to move a 2800lb car, and provide plentiful fun. Passing and merging abilities are already very excellent.
And keep in mind, there's always a bigger fish, even if you manage to beat an SRT-4 in a straight line with mods done to the Mazdaspeed, will not get you close to the LancerEvolution. The point is to have fun with the car, and the Mazdaspeed provides that.
The MSP hp figures could not go higher without beefing up the transmission, which would drive the cost higher than the planned $20K threshold Mazda was aiming for.
As for the RX-8, its a very notable engine due to its distinctiveness. It does make little torque compared to competitors, but so does the S2000 from Honda which is praised for its engines. If the people don't mind the S2000 lack of torque down low, then most likely they won't for the RX-8. And why don't people complain of S2000's lack of low end grunt? It's because of the speed and smoothness when the F20C engine in the S2000 revs up to make use of the torque.
Lots of people say that they don't want themselves revving to 6K rpm to realize any noticable torque when they look at the S2000, but what they don't realize is when the S2000 is revving to 6K it doesn't exhibit the same NVH issues as other engines. And if the tach doesn't tell you how high your revving, how else would you know? A rotary engine is far more smooth and much less harsh than a piston engine. The RX-8 I assume if like the RX-7 revs quicly and silently, with a hum accompanied by exhaust note when traveling to high rpms. So even with the low torque figures, the car makes use of high end torque easily and its 250hp.
I think this is largely a result of the North America's love of drag racing, and basically how fast the car goes in a straight line. Read any European/Asian automotive magazine, like Britian's CAR for instance and you'll see that good handling cars are mostly praised, and handling is prioritized over straight line speed. They will even say a Focus with a 1.6 engine is enough power.
Unless you go drag racing or street race at stoplights (which I seriously discourage people to do) I see no need for the MSP to have any more power. I think a car that has 170hp and 160lb feet of torque is more than enough to move a 2800lb car, and provide plentiful fun. Passing and merging abilities are already very excellent.
And keep in mind, there's always a bigger fish, even if you manage to beat an SRT-4 in a straight line with mods done to the Mazdaspeed, will not get you close to the LancerEvolution. The point is to have fun with the car, and the Mazdaspeed provides that.
The MSP hp figures could not go higher without beefing up the transmission, which would drive the cost higher than the planned $20K threshold Mazda was aiming for.
As for the RX-8, its a very notable engine due to its distinctiveness. It does make little torque compared to competitors, but so does the S2000 from Honda which is praised for its engines. If the people don't mind the S2000 lack of torque down low, then most likely they won't for the RX-8. And why don't people complain of S2000's lack of low end grunt? It's because of the speed and smoothness when the F20C engine in the S2000 revs up to make use of the torque.
Lots of people say that they don't want themselves revving to 6K rpm to realize any noticable torque when they look at the S2000, but what they don't realize is when the S2000 is revving to 6K it doesn't exhibit the same NVH issues as other engines. And if the tach doesn't tell you how high your revving, how else would you know? A rotary engine is far more smooth and much less harsh than a piston engine. The RX-8 I assume if like the RX-7 revs quicly and silently, with a hum accompanied by exhaust note when traveling to high rpms. So even with the low torque figures, the car makes use of high end torque easily and its 250hp.
June-23rd-2003, 05:30 PM
#10
Recreational Gynocolist
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 568
yep, and there are plans to re-release the rx-7 around 2006 with a more tuned Renesis. Imagine a car around the 2700-2800 lb range w/ 300hp. Now that's what im talkin about.
June-23rd-2003, 08:51 PM
#11
Protege Enthusiast
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Grandview, MO
Posts: 88
i would drive it. but the main thing to remember it that is the next "COSWORTH" focus. the drive train will be perfectly fine, thats if cosworth did the drive train. I think the Escort Cosworth and serria cosworth are a good example of what cosworth can do. considering they both can handle 400 horsepower on the stock motor and drive train (including the tranny)
June-23rd-2003, 09:12 PM
#12
SHIFT_mystick
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Lincoln, Ne
Posts: 1,228
Being a pretty big cosworth enthusiast my self, i would undoubtably find a way to buy that if it came to the US. The current SVT focus is quite a tasty car if i must say, but add a Cosworth AWD drivetrain that is prooven and capable to it.... talk about one hel of a car. Cosworth builds great stuff, and i must say so
it aint gonna be another blow up fuckus
it aint gonna be another blow up fuckus
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