funkdaddysmack

I think that the domestic car makers are really starting to pay attention to what the enthusiast consumers want, and I also believe the Foreign car makers are falling behind. Of course I'm not including things like reliability, etc., etc. I don't want this to turn into a "domestics are crap because they break down" thread. I've seen enough of those already. If it comes to that, I'll delete the thread.

For example:

The MSP is a great car, no doubt, but it seems to me like Mazda is making it just 'good enough' instead of THE sport compact car to own. Sure, it's the best handling FWD out there probably, and I guess that really is Mazda's goal for the car... But who's to say it couldn't use another 30 or 40 hp to be THE best sport compact to own, hands down?

The new Civic Si... The hype was overwhelming, the car overall has been underwhelming. It's a heavy-*** car for how small it is, underpowered, and doesn't handle as well as it should. Many people disapointed, especially Honda enthusiasts. It's a good car, it's just not very 'sporty' in any way.

On the other side of the coin, Ford has it's supposed 220HP focus svt coming out, Dodge has the brutal SRT4 out... Pontiac has the GTO coming out (different class, but still the same principal... Enthusiasts want a powerful car). Hell, mercury has the pimp-tastic maurader. I've even heard rumors of GM cars getting superchargers for the J-Body's as a aftermarket option avaliable from the dealer (under warranty even).

I'm not saying all foreign manufacturer's aren't getting it. The WRX was a huge breakthrough for the market, and it still is. It's just that I'm amazed how domestics are so quickly produced to meet the needs of the consumer. The SRT4 came out of practically nowhere. It wasn't even a year from when I first heard about it, until it was released.

Granted, the overall reliability/build quality have generally been less of the foreign cars, but it's always been like that... Not really anything new. The domestic manufacturers seem to be really trying to get the consumers excited about new cars. I sure am.

semtex

im not sure , i hear ya about the new hondas, accords,civics and whatnot but i belive that they are trying to lean their sales to the daily comuter(sp?) not the street racer. as for the domestics i think they are startin to catch onto what people want, GM is putting out concept cars that have been "riced out" and tryin to catch the eye of younger buyers, but from what i hear and read GM has very poor customer service in their warrenty and parts service dept.

but yes i do see the change coming from the domestic car manufactures and i hope they produce something that i can look forward to seeing on the road.

Jurrell

I noticed that too, the GTO, 05 Mustang, Maurader, and the CTS V-spec are looking pretty good looking.

some mustang pics

http://forums.clubsi.com/showflat.ph...b=5&o=&fpart=1

EDIT:

Pressed enter when I didn't want to.

The GTO has a great looking interior and its fast.

http://linkage.ricecop.com/out.php?l...readid%3D30748

On the other hand, the accord looks blah, but the interior is nice. Samewith the new NSX

turbonium959

I think when a manufacturer decides to make a car, they make a few sacrifises in certain areas. For example, Neon SRT-4, fast as hell, and kills anything in its class, but the enterior looks worse then older Hyudai's and handles decent. I would rather have a good quality / awesome handling like MSP then Focus or Neon. Plus, foreign automakers do not think the same way domestics one do. I am sure that Mazda and other know that here in the states, Bigger is Better in any way. Though I do not think they can afford to build a car just for this market, because they have to have the car sold all over the world, and just by selling it here would not bring any profit. I do not know if it is true or not, but I think Mazda spend a lot of money getting the new 6 adapted to this market, otherwise the car would not sell here at all. IMO

carguycw

My initial thought on this topic is that if you're talking about compact or midsize cars, the American carmakers are better at building good spec sheets than good cars.

First, the Neon SRT-4. This car looks nice on paper, but it's in danger of being the next chapter in an extensive history of making really fast cheap pieces of junk. Over the past 20 years, Chrysler has repeatedly shown that it can blow away all its FWD competition with overwhelming horsepower, with the Shelby Charger, the Omni GLH, the Spirit R/T, and the car that held the previous record as the fastest-accelerating FWD car ever sold in America, the Dodge Daytona IROC R/T. However, you may notice a pattern- all of these cars generally fell apart and blew up after a couple of years on the road and you never see any of them anymore. The Neon SRT-4 is very audacious, but the cheesy build quality and generally abysmal reliability of past Neons does not bode well.

GM? They are pushing the J-body as a sports compact. However, with the exception of rebadged Toyotas, this company has NEVER produced a decent economy car that was up to par with its contemporaries, with the exception of the original Saturn, which they proceeded to ruin by keeping it around WAAAY too long with too few changes. The current J-body was dated when it came out in 1994, and now it's REALLY dated. These cars may be powerful, but they are too heavy and c-h-e-a-p. Everything about these cars says r-e-n-t-a-l. True, it's about to be replaced, but the first new-generation GM compact, the Saturn Ion, is already drawing fire (read the latest C&D). GM can make a good SUV, but IMHO all of their FWD offerings suck, suck, suck.

The best domestic offering IMHO is the Focus. I think that Ford actually DOES "get it." The Focus SVT is pretty cool. You'd think Mazda was involved in their design process or something.

Summary: The domestics are finally showing some signs of getting it right, but in terms of actually having the whole package, Ford has gotten closest, but the others haven't gotten it yet.

Oh yeah, one more thing: IMHO Honda BLEW IT when they released the new Civic Si. I thought the car sounded good until it actually came out and I saw the specs and the styling. It is too floppy, too heavy, and too weird-looking. Funny thing is, Honda has done this before when they replaced the CRX Si with the del Sol- they had a car that was near perfect, but rather than bringing out a car that was basically the same, just new, improved, more powerful and faster, they tried to turn it into something else, and in the process added too much weight and general weirdness. The proof is in the pudding- some local Honda dealers in my area have been advertising Si's for $3,500(!) off MSRP.

However, IMHO the new 200-hp, LSD-equipped, 6-speed Civic Type-R is pretty cool, and I predict Honda will bring it here in 1-2 years in a desperate attempt to revise interest in the Civic Si, just like when they released the del Sol VTEC after swearing up and down that it would never be sold in the U.S. either. However, I predict that the effort will ultimately fail, just like the del Sol. History repeats itself yet again.

OK, I should shut up now.

JAC

I'm not a fan of recent american cars, but if I lived in the US, I'd probably be getting an SRT-4.
You just can't say no those numbers: 0-60 in 5,4 sec and it costs less than 20k? (fully loaded except for the optional side airbags) it doesn't get any better than that... it might be a neon, but I shure as hell wouldn't mind having Integras, Civics, Proteges, etc. staring at my ugly *** rear end when I beat them.

Mazda and all the Japanese automakers should focus on building a SRT-4 slayer, I like the Mazdaspeed Protege, but it sounds like a joke compared to the SRT-4's specs. And the Impreza doesn't count because it's not under 20k.

just my .02$