Zooooooooooom

Same size housing yes, but very different on the inside Which is capable of flowing more air?
And MSP's are blowing up at 10psi because they have no fuel management to run upped boost. They buy a boost controller, turn it up and think it will be ok. The unichip out for the MSP is allowing owners to run higher than stock boost levels safely. So don't tell me that they are blowing up at 10 pounds of boostbecause its "too much boost" thats bullshit, its because its not properly tuned that the engines going on them

Roddimus Prime

Last I heard the T28 was a T25 exhaust housing with a T3compressor housing...hence...T28. My point was not to bash anyones product but to make sure to inform those not as informed that putting a large turbo (T28 is bigger than a T25 and many T25 cars are popping) on an under-tuned car is a recipe for disaster.

Zoooooom, I understand you like Beau's products and that's fine but you have to admit that a stock fs-de block will NOT hold deceent boost for long without full stand alone FM. For what it would cost to buy forged internals, good turbo kit, fuel management and all of the associated labor you'd be better off to buy an EVO, STi, Cobra, etc....

I stand by what I said earlier. If you're looking for decent power at a good price stick to a low-boost FI kit and stay on top of all precautionary maintaince. If you want a race car BUY A RACE CAR.

Zooooooooooom

I still say with proper tuning, you don't need forged rods and pistons to make decent power gains from. I believe the block itself is capable of holding lots of power, just not the internals.

Roddimus Prime

uh....contradict yourself much? I think you and I are arguing the same point in just a different manner. I absolutely agree that proper EMS is needed to run lots of cfm. My point is that boost is different from cfm (of airflow). A smaller turbo can run more boost but still force less cfm thereby needing less FM. When you start adding largER turbo's you're adding more cfm at lower boost levels. When you do this without proper precautions you're just asking for trouble.

I guess my main point is that a T25 is more than enough blower for any stock block fs-de. The T28s and T3s and T04's etc are just overkill. People keep subscribing to this "bigger is better" theory and it's not always true. ,I was just trying to prevent further spread of it.

thrasher125

yeah a t25 would be a nice set up for a p5.....t4 is way too big.. i myself am running a t3 60 trim on my 98 protege with 1st gen bp motor...also it would be a great idea to run custom turbo back exhaust....

macdaddyslomo

got pics??..I'd love to see the setup

thrasher125

yeh here some pics.. i also got a greddy type s bov..... and many more goodies just no pics

Zooooooooooom

I believe we are arguing the same point.. in a way. I just see you arguing that your supercharger application is going to be better. BUT it makes no difference, whether you're pushing it through a supercharger or a turbo, it still takes proper tuning to keep from blowing your engine. So saying that your supercharger app is better suited than a turbo charging app is unfounded because 1. a supercharger is still in development stages last i heard, and 2. its still FI therefore, you are still going to need EM
A Gt28R is a great size for the FS-DE motor. quick spool up times, and great power out of a relatively small turbo. IF you're overall goal is just a few more ponies, then a turbocharger with a mild 6-8 psi of boost on a Gt28r is perfect. You can even manage that with an FMU. BUT i suggest getting a better method to control timing and fuel as there are many more options out there now, than there were a year ago.

BTW thrasher, that intercooler core is pretty tall, how deep is it?

thrasher125

i believe its 2" if not 2.5"

Roddimus Prime

show me where I said ANY of this. The only time I even mentioned my supercharger kit was to point out what power levels I felt were acceptable on a daily driven FI car. Even though the supercharger would make MORE power only a little of it was acceptable.

My only point is to mention that the T25 on the MSP is PLENTY of turbo for anyone who wants boost. The T25 supports enough airflow for about 300whp which is FAR beyond the limits of our pistons/rods even with proper tuning. what I said was ,"JUST ADDING A BIGGER TURBO IS FOOLISH". And it is. Cfm is Cfm, if you could run 550cfm @ 15psi on a T25 or 550cfm @ 8psi on a T3 why would you choose the larger more expensive turbo?!?! If a small turbo has more than enough potential to create the same power levels and potentially destroy the motor why does it make sense that putting a larger turbo car is better?

Zooooooooooom

The way i interpreted the supercharger comment is that you'd rather run that than a turbocharger because it was "safer" I guess i misinterpreted. and you're still going to need the same amount of air going in to make that 200 horses. We are arguing 2 completely different points. Why have a T25, when a gt28r can make the same power with a quicker spool up? yes its a bit more expensive, but when you consider what you get with beaus kit, its a really good deal because kits that come with T3's cost the same amount. I have yet to see a protege turbo kit come with a t25

Roddimus Prime

the mazdaspeed uses a Ballbearing T25exhaust housing.....A GT28R turbo is a T25 exhaust housing, ball bearing dual-cooled center cartridge, and a T3 compressor housing.(this is the same philosophy people use when building a hybrid T3/T4 like the one I have....T4 flowrates with T3 spoolspeed). It has the FAST spool of the BB T25 but the flow rate of the T3...It is FASTER than a T3 but not the T25..

Another good thing to think about is that the GT28R (the RS model is about $2400) is MUCH more expensive than a T25 or even a straight T3. If it were my car I'd want the smallest turbo I could use to acheive the power I'm looking for. Spool times are important to me but not everyone..some people just like having whatever part Sport Compact Car magazine tells them to buy.

Zooooooooooom

I dont care what the MSP is running. Thats not an issue we are arguing about. I DON'T care what the MSP is using, we aren't talking about that.
We are talking NEW kits. Beau and MAM sell a kit with a GT28r for a competitive price that a kit with a T3 would go for. Now why would you want to go with T25, or a T3 when you're getting ag reat priced, well engineered kit for the price other vendors have a T3 for?
A GT28RS can be acquired for less than 2 grand easy, but beau will upgrade to a rs for only 200 bucks, can't beat a deal like that.
BTW I'm not buying the rs because "Sport Compact Car is telling me to" I am getting it to help beau out in testing how well his kit will function with it.

Zooooooooooom

You go from lecturing about blowing an engine, to describing the differences of the turbos. Yes the blowing of an engine may be affected by the size of the turbo. BUT the bottom line is no matter how you decide to get more power out of your engine, you are going to need a good tune, and a FMU is NOT a good tune. whether its supercharged, turbocharged, or NA. A FMU will never be sufficient imo.