rworrell

I've been reading this forum quite diligently and I have decided that I would like to keep a factory HU (although not necessarily the one it came with) in my 2003 P5 to deter theft. I have also decided that I'm only going to upgrade the front speakers (with the Infinity Kappas, 5x7) and amp those and leave the rears and the pseudo-sub driven off of the HU.

I only have the single CD HU, no cassette. I'd prefer to have the cassette and possibly the 6-disc changer (although I read that one member here prefers the single-slot from an SQ standpoint). I'd only use the cassette to allow for a car adapter for my Nomad Jukebox MP3 player.

So, the questions I'm hoping you guys can help me with:

1) Can the older factory unit from the Miata, Tribute, etc. be used in my P5? They look like they'd fit size-wise (you can see one here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...&category=3293) and I think the only thing I'd be giving up is they only have one FM set of presets and a smaller display--does anyone know? Also, will this be able to drive the rears and the spare-tire sub?

2) All I need for an amp is a 2-channel unit with speaker/high-level inputs, correct?

3) Is the Audiovox FM adapter a better option for adding an aux-in?

Thanks in advance for your help!

hihoslva

I can't say for sure that it would work for your application. The real issue is the wiring harness and mounting, of course - question being, is the harness the same? Are the mounting points for the unit the same? Without knowing for sure, I can't really advise. However! - if cassette is what you are after, you CAN have it without removing the deck you have now! The stock P5 CD player has a modular cassette deck that can be purchased from the dealer, and it installs in the little panel ("multi-function audio system") between the *****. I believe the cassette deck is about $250 USD from the dealer - I've seen prices of about $275 installed. As far as I know, you CAN have the 6-disc changer AND cassette in the same deck. I think the 6-disc is about $600. The prices are definitely high - no doubt about that. But, you do get the look and function of a stock stereo, which can be important to some people. Plus, I can't see why the units would not be fully Mazda-warranteed, especially if dealer-installed. Check with your dealer, maybe thay can cut you deal for both units together. Here's a link to the Protege5 accessories catalog (PDF format) - the modular add-ons for the stereo are right on the frist page, upper left corner - part numbers and all: http://accessories.mazdausa.com/acce...3_Protege5.pdf

Quote:

2) All I need for an amp is a 2-channel unit with speaker/high-level inputs, correct?

Yep. However, do not expect the factory "subwoofer" to keep up with an amplified front stage. Nothing to worry about right now for sure, but I'd expect that the sub will get drowned out fairly quickly. Of course, you can look into other options now, or add-on later without hassle. Either way, all you need for the front is what you described. If you DO find an amp that you really like that does NOT have speaker-level inputs, you can use a line-level adapter - this will accept the speaker inputs and has RCA outputs to then connect to the amp. But finding an amp with speaker-level input should not be a problem.

Quote:

3) Is the Audiovox FM adapter a better option for adding an aux-in?

Most people do not care too much for FM modulators due to decreased sound quality. If you are buying the cassette deck, I would certainly try that first - the cassette adapter thingy for aux input. If for whatever reason you are not happy with it, getting the FM unit later on is no big deal. But I would expect the cassette adapter to have better sound quality.

Let us know how it all turns out!

~HH

Sir Nuke

as HI HO mentioned about the head unit...we can't be POSITIVE...but it looks like it would...it LOOKS like the width is right...and on the side the catches for the locks LOOK like they are in the right place....I would be interested to see what the back looks like as there is a **** that fits into a socket in the back that secures and supports the back of the deck when installed....

the PLUS side is that they send a wireing harness with it...which would make it possible to wire in into your car even if the plugs were different. all you would need to do is splice in the harness and you would be ready to go.

Also mentioned....your sub is going to suffere.....you might want to consider removing the stock sub.....using a 4 channel amp and powering the fronts with two channels..and bridging the other two and powering an amp with them.

a nice amp, either two channel or four, that has line level inputs like you will need is the Alpine V-Power series.

a nice sub to add to your set up would be a JL Audio 10W0 Powerwedge.

rworrell

Thanks for the help so far. Sounds like a cassette adapter is the way to go for the MP3 connectivity.

It appears you both think it's better just to disconnect the factory sub--why is that? Does it hurt anything to leave it hooked up? I mean, I understand that you're predicting it will be overwhelmed but it's not bothering anything sitting back there, right?

The reason I was leaning towards a 2-channel amp is because I don't want to give up any cargo space to a sub. I know that people install them with quick-connects, etc. so they can pull them out when needed, but then where does the sub box go when it's disconnected? I don't want a loud, thumpy car--I want to be able to hear the music but I don't want people in the neighborhood subjected to it!

SirNuke, I was leaning toward the Alpine V-Power because of your recommendation. Then, this weekend, I saw the Rockford Fosgate Punch 150S for around $99--that looks like it would meet my needs (and the needs of the Kappas), right? Speaker-level inputs, too.

Thanks again!

Sir Nuke

personally I just don't care for the Rockford Amps....have just had to many people I know not have good luck with them...thats all.

as for leaveing the sub in place...you could do that seeing as how its in the spare tire well.....

as for a sub taking up to much cargo space? well I don't think mine does....as mentioned I have a JL Audio 10W0 Powerwedge...here is a picture of it in the back of the car...as you can see it fits PERFECTLY up aginst the back of the rear seats and takes up VERY little space.

also....it handles the power a lot better than the stocker....and it CAN thump....but more importantly....it brings clarity to the lower end....

hihoslva

Of course, there is no reason at ALL to disconnect the sub! I think all we were saying is that once you amp the door speakers, that sub is not going to be as audible.

But of course, leave it in there - it's not hurting anything!

I am curious - as I have not seen this sub yet - is the speaker accessible? Can it be removed? If so, another possibility would be to simply replace the speaker with something better, disconnect it from the internal amplifier, and use a better amp for it. Then you'd have some nice bottom end, without sacrificing ANY space at all!

Again - I don't know if it is possible to disassemble the sub, but it might be worth looking into. Then you could pick up a 4 channel amplifier, use the front channels for the Kappas (nice choice, BTW - I love my Infinity References), and bridge the rear two channels mono to the new sub.

I know I might be throwing out more suggestions than you care to entertain, but I just can't help myself!

As far as Rockford amps - I used two of them for over a year, and they were solid. Never had a single problem with them.

Sorry if I'm overwhelming you with options - but I think where there's a will, there's a way, even on a budget.

Now go check out that sub....hehehe.

~HH

rworrell

Here's a picture from another site of the factory sub:

http://www.emkayusa.net/mazda/p505.jpg

I've read that it's not really a sub at all, just a 5 1/4" speaker which is supposed to reproduce more bass. It fits into the spare tire wheel, but it requires a foam spacer (about 1.5") on the bottom of the carpeted floor flap that covers the spare. It would be cool to replace that with a real sub, but I don't think there are any decent subs which can fit in a mini-spare.

I considered the References and thought they were really nice, but there's a store here where I was able to listen to the References and the Kappas back-to-back and the Kappas were audibly better. They almost sound like 3-dimensional audio. I had read that References were a better choice with a stock HU, Kappas if you're willing to amp.

Ikesound has the Kappas for $85, shipped. Prices in stores tend to be $145-$160.

Don't apologize for too many suggestions--I'm definitely a "buy once" sort of person. I don't want to do something then regret it and have to replace it later. I much prefer to research a purchase fully and then buy confidently that I won't have buyer's remorse (kind of like I did with the P5 itself! what a great car!).

hihoslva

Wow - a 5-1/4 "sub" huh? Hehe. Sounds like the Kenwood wOOx - it has a 5-1/4" speaker and a 6 (maybe 6.5"?) passive radiator - like a speaker without the magnet and all. It supposedly resonates with the 5.25, creating more bass.

DaleK installed one, says its pretty cool.

As long as you are open to suggestions......

In my newest install (forget the subs for now), I'm running a 4 channel amp. The fronts are to the Infinity reference 6.5 components (you are right - they are better than the Kappas for non-amped systems, but they do sing nicely with 100+ watts on 'em ). The rear channels are running a set of Peerless 6.5" midbasses only - no tweeter.

Now, I do need to get some sort of bandpass crossover going for *my* preferred listening levels, because the low, low, bass is too much for those Peerless. But I do have them low-passed, running from 400 Hz and down. The Infinity's run from about 100 Hz and up. I can say that the Peerless would add a very nice dose of bass to non-sub setups. Not pounding, of course, but probably equal to or better than something like the factory "sub".

I have listened to them without the subs, and they really add a nice bottom end and a good warmth to the sound.

If you don't care about rear passengers, this seems like a great way to utilize the rear speaker locations. I'm digging this setup - but I do need to get some sort of processor that will allow me to more accurately choose the frequencies the Peerless receive. But I would highly recommend something like this - it's a great compromise without subs, IMHO.

You said you wanted suggestions....you'll get 'em

~HH

rworrell

SirNuke, I found a different auction with excellent, detailed photos of the back of the unit--from your description, it sounds like this might work perfectly. Can you please take a look at this and give me the benefit of your expertise?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=38640

HiHo--The mid-bass sounds like an interesting solution to me. I rarely have backseat passengers and I usually have the stereo turned off when I do. That sounds like it might give me enough bass to fill out the sound without losing any room in the hatch. I was really excited when I heard your suggestion. Any opinions on Kicker mid-ranges? Crutchfield doesn't carry Peerless (actually, I haven't found anyone who carries Peerless), but they and Sounddomain both carry Kicker.

Thanks again!

DaleK

rworrel

Well since my name was mentioned, I thought I had better chime in. I already had a huge response ready once, but I managed to %&&'n delete it and I had to cool down before I tried again

Anyway, my 2 cents on the topics above...

1) I have the wOOx. I like it. I have it mounted under the passenger seat which has some different characteristics than being way back there. If you search on wOOx, go to the thread entitled space saving bass, and you will see my full response on the wOOx. Arl240 also did this, and he seems to like it.

2) I had an older version of the same sub enclosure you had pictured. It was a non-powered one. I had it in my pickup (1970 chev 1/2 ton - very nice. Wish I hadn't sold it some days). It was OK, but when I went loud with it, there was a lot of port noise, which wasn't to my liking. Hopefully the version being put in the P5 is better. Out back under the carpet like that, port noise wouldn't be a tremendous concern, but would still be there.

3) I tried the spare tire thing in my P5. It looks to me from the picture like the spare tire in the newest P5s is mounted upside down compared to my 2002. In my car, the spare is mounted so the dished out part (where the sub fits inside) is facing down, and there is a big bracket welded to the floor of the well to bolt it to. I gather from the pictures that this bracket has probably been changed so that the spare can be flipped and there is a spot for the sub without taking up too much height. I was quite amused to see this as the factory option after I had tried it and discarded it as a bad idea because of the way the spare was mounted )

4) With the spare the other way, you could fit a wicked customer fiberglass encosure with a small airspace JL 8inch sub, and get the nest of HiHo's and Nuke's and my worlds - a custom made fibreglass enclosure with a JL sub that is completely invisible and retains all your cargo space.

If it was me, I would try the new front stage with the factory sub and see how it is, and then look at option 4 if the sound wasn't what I wanted. the only thing with that is that you need to decide between a 2 or 4 channel amp. Heck get a 5 channel like Nuke has and power all 4 speakers and a custom sub enclosure. Wait, that won't help your budget.....

BTW - I trust Nuke's and HiHo's opinions on the amps. The Alpine v powers are nice with the speaker inputs, and they aren't terribly large either.

Good luck!!
Dale.

DaleK

This deck hasa different connector setup than the P5. One thing that you might want to do is post in the want to buy section - I have seen several people let go of their factory stuff here, and maybe you could do a good trade with someone who wants to turf the 6 disc changer for aftermarket, but wants to be able to go back to stock for resale.

Dale.

hihoslva

The Peerless drivers can be found at www.madisound.com. They are a Danish (I think) speaker and are not widely available.

In fact, Peerless is better known for home speakers, I believe. The model number I have is 850158 - I'm pretty sure that's it.

Just know that to use this a bass fill, you will either have to turn down the rears a bit, or figure out another way of bandpassing them - they do NOT handle the bass below about 80-100Hz or so very well at high power - just like most smaller speakers. However, even with them turned down a good deal (and not bandpassed), they will still add a really nice dose of warmth to the sound.

I have heard good things about the Kickers, too. I went with Peerless on a recommendation - plus, they only cost me $75 for the pair from Madisound.

I know there is a certain capacitor or resistor that you can put inline with the speaker (like a "bass-blocker") that will cut out most of the sub-bass, allowing you to run them at much higher levels. I changed my setup (for now), so that they do not run that low, and they handle the power really well. I'm going to get the correct specs for the capacitor soon, so I can have them running as the true mid-bass I want. An outboard adjustable crossover will do well, also. But the little 25 cent capacitors from Radio Shack are a cheaper alternative - I just need to find out which ones to buy, then experiment with them until I find one that does what I like.

You will also need an adapter plate (will have to be about 1/2" thick, too) to fit them in the doors. The basket is too large, and does not fit in the hole . No biggie there.

You can also look into using true "subs" in that size - I belive JL Audio makes some 6.5" subs, designed to be used as midbasses. Worth a look.

Either way, I personally feel that using the rear doors a source of some bottom end is a fantastic alternative for someone who doesn't want true subwoofers.

BTW - did you look into the modular units (6-disc changer and cassette deck) for the factory P5 stereo? Still seems to me that it would be MUCH easier than trying to piece out a radio from another Mazda to fit your car. It'll be more expensive, but it's a simple drop-in install, keeps the exact same deck you have now (with the matching amber lighting and big display and all), and is guaranteed to work.

~HH

Sir Nuke

the rear support on that deck is different than yours....it won't be a direct drop in...sorry.

rworrell

Update:

I won an auction on ebay for a P5 stock system with the 6-disc changer, cassette and all 4 factory speakers for only $183. Seems like a great buy to me. Thanks for the opinions on how the earlier model wouldn't fit. I'm very pleased with the deal I got on the combo unit.

My new plan is to install the new factory HU and an amp and keep everything else factory and see how they do with some clean juice running to them. If a speaker blows, I'll still have a backup. I was considering "permanently" installing my MP3/cassette adapter in the player by sticking the adapter into the cassette slot and feeding the wire behind the faceplate, under the console and into the armrest storage area. I saw someone else had moved their lighter to that location--I could power my Nomad Jukebox in there, as well.

So, the factory HU with 6-disc and cassette with MP3 input, 4-channel amp driving the fronts and rears and letting the factory "sub" run off the HU's power--that may not sound too bad. If so, I'll try upgrading just the fronts with Infinitys--either References or Kappas, depending on how flush I'm feeling at the time! Opinions on that? I know you guys aren't shy...

hihoslva

WOW - that's a GREAT deal on the factory stuff, even if it was just the deck alone!

Try buying a new deck from the dealer with the 6 disc changer and cassette - it'd run you about a grand, easy!

My only concern for you proposed setup is the use of the stock speakers, especially amplified. Granted, you WILL get better sound. However, the stock speakers are genuine, 100% pure crap. This is not an opinion - it's fact. Paper bullshit. The back of the speakers reads "25W" - which is probably all they are rated to handle. And I'd bet they wouldn't take that for very long, either.

Just for comparison - I would like to lay out my system for you, not including the HU (which you have already), wiring, and sub box (made my own fiberglass enclosure). This is just amps and speakers:

Infinity reference 6.5" components up front; $109 at www.ikesound.com. Peerless mids in rear doors; $75 from Madisound. Infinity Kappa 10" subs (2); $75 each off eBay. Lanzar Vibe 428 4 channel amp; $130 from Ike, Lanzar Vibe 248 2 channel amp; also $130 from Ike.

For under $600, I crank. It's DAMN loud, and sounds great to my ears. The Lanzars are new to me, and I am more impressed every day with the value - these amps put out a lot of clean power for the money. I'm talking about them all over the place - they're a steal!

I'm just pointing out that it does NOT have to cost an arm and a leg to have a loud, clear, and complete system.

~HH