Monster8

Tonyroma1, it is kinda cool to hear that from you. You are really the first person to say something really good about the pioneer's on this thread.

I was planning on getting a sub and amp and throwing that in the trunk, so I am not really concerned about the bass coming out of the speakers as much as mid's and high's. Just because the sub will be able to provide that for me.
I was looking at the 2 way TS-D160R speakers, because pioneer's website it looks like those are the top quality speakers they sell except for the 6x9. I don't think there would be any advantage of me getting the 6x9 over the 6.5 since I will be putting in a sub.

I should be able to goto some shops this weekend and listen to as much as they have ( I am hoping they will have pioneer on display, and some other good brand I can compare with).

Monster8

What is making me think and getting me confused now, is that I am looking at some amps online for example the U.S. Acoustic 2100 model and the specs on it say 100w per channel @ 4ohms. Now I go look at a sub like the Infinity 1220w model and on the specs on that is 300w RMS @ 4ohms.

So if I got that amp and that sub would I be underpowering the sub? I would be setting it up where 1 channel will goto the front and back speakers and the second channel to the sub as an example setup.
Is that amp just not powerful enough? Or are the watt ratings different and that is what is confusing me?

I have seen this with other brands of subs and amps, and I try and compare them to see if they would go good together, but according to the specs they seem like they wouldn't.

I have read somewhere that underpowering your sub is a bad thing.

ironman

In your setup you would use 4 channel amp to power 4 speakers. One for each channel. Often, you can use it to power 2 or even one. For instance, 400 watts to one, 200 to 2 or 100 to 4. You would probably want a second amp to power a sub. You can get a single amp that will power 4 speakers and a sub but they tend to be large and expensive. Running at 4 ohms will provide cleaner sound than running at 2. With good clean sound even 75rms is a lot for basic fronts and rears. On the sub, I would use at least a single channel 200 watt amp.

Monster8

So you are saying I can't power the 4 speakers and the sub with just a 2 channel amp?
Because I thought that was the norm for cheaper setups.

Well then if I couldn't power it that way then I likely would only get one amp just to power the sub and let the HU power the 4 speakers. Just because I don't really want to shell out for two amps.

Thanks

ironman

I guess anything is possible. I have never set one up that way but I am not an expert. What might be better in terms of sound quality would be to get a 4 channel amp (400 watts)...send two to the fronts at say 100 watts (front stage is most important) use the deck to power the rears and see if you can bridge the other 200watts into the sub. That way you get nice clean high power upfront where it matters most and decent rear filler and good thump on the sub.

onehawaiian

dude, keep it all simple. this thread is so long, i forget which direction you're headed. you're gonna change your mind several times, and will change your setup as well, but stick to your plan and you'll SAVE MONEY.

as for your system, it sounds like you don't want a competition level setup, so here is a suggestion:

frontstage (get your pioneers)
2ch amp
sub
run your spkrs off the hu, amp the sub.

-OR-

frontstage
4ch amp
sub
run spkrs off 2ch, bridge the remaining 2ch for sub.

rear fill is not necessary (my previous post). but set your plan, set your budget and stay in the ballpark, you'll be lots happier in the end (and less confused!) go with the pioneers, as they are not bad spkrs and have nice sound.

Monster8

OK, then this is what I probably will end up doing then, is moving the front speakers out of the doors into the back because the back speakers are blown. Putting in new speakers up front (not decided yet on the pioneer), in the future I will get new speakers for the back.

And then I will get an amp for the sub only, since the HU will probably be able to provide enough power (it is a pioneer KEH-P4020) which is 45wx4, to the speakers. I may even get the component speakers and then put the tweeters up on the windshield bars.

Ok since that is solved, for the amp, do I need to get an amp that will produce the same RMS as the sub can handle?

I just enjoy learning from it all. Reading all the input and reading other websites.

Thanks alot.

SedanMan

Monster: Im no expert in mobile audio but I seriously doubt you can run component speakers of the HU. I heard they need alot more power than that.

I hope Im wrong cause then I would get some.

onehawaiian

it depends on which components and which hu you run. amping is normally better tho.

as for amps, you should match the rms, but it is not necessary. nowadays everyone wants a class d amp (including me, but for a different reason) or some 1000 watt amp or some crap. but not too long ago, 500w was the ****. underpowering your sub is not the cause for blowing, altho that factors into it. getting an amp that'll produce their rated power (and clean) is what matters the most.

in reference to your post above, the us accoustics will be fine for the infinity sub. you're looking at 100wrms (i think, not familiar w/specs) x2, so if you bridge it, you should get more power (enough power) to that sub.

1st MP3 in NH

A rear deck speaker will always be louder, sound cleaner and deliver more bass for one reason. THERE NOT PLAYING AT YOU FEET LIKE THE FRONTS! No put the fronts in kick panels like me and you'll see why rear speakers are for fill only.

1st MP3 in NH

You can do it with passive crossovers but to be honest not to many installer will set it up like this for you. Hawian reccomended the best setups. But for know just listen to speakers and get those, COmponent or coax it doesn't make a differecnce at your price range. Hell I heard a set of $400 Quarts of a Nak deck, SOUNDED AWSOME!! no amp needed.

As far as Pioneer being good or bad just listen and decide without anyones opinion its not like there going to break easirer then another brand but one piece of advice Don't get more then a 2 way/ coaxle. That 3 way 4 way crap is just gimmicky and cost more money. But if you like them them better then ge them. I just hate that bullshit term 3 way describing a $100 speakers. A 3 way is a set of 3 speakers, Tweeter mid and Woofer with an outboard crossover. Not some POS speaker with 2 different sized tweeters and capacitors glued to it. By the way if anyone would like to see if their 6x9s can go to there claimedpower I would be more then happy to hook them up to my 604 and destroy them.

Monster8

Thank you for that, that actually makes me feel better now.

LOL! I will make a note of it not to get that other 3 way and 4 way crap.

Man you guys ruin my plans of the component speakers up front! ARG! Everything has to cost more and more money, they should like do it for free everynow and then or something.

I will wait then on the component speakers and get those later down the road when I am making a bit more money.
I should take it slow since I am starting out and just get some new coaxle speakers for the front. And then get the amp and sub.

And then from there decide if I like how it sounds, and if so I will leave it for a while. If not then I will do something else.

onehawaiian

set a price and stick to it (or keep it in the ballpark). tell us what you want, and we can help you sort out the pricing.

but do not, i repeat, DO NOT buy crap right off the back, cause then you WILL spend more money trying to replace it, and trust me, that will really **** you off.

Monster8

I am planning on ordering the speakers Monday. I convinced myself to get all 4 speakers, otherwise I would have two nice speakers and two crappy ones. I am going to order the Pioneer TS-D160R's.

On etronics.com they sell them for $73.00 (not including shipping).
But I have read you guys say some people have had problems with them. So what I was planning on doing was having thezeb.com pricematch them for the same price.

But now I goto thezeb.com and see these CDT speakers the CAX-600's, and read from their site that CDT speakers are awesome. hehe Gosh I keep changing my mind. I will figure it out by Monday morning. They are in my budget at only 89.00. I know you guys would say they are better then the Pioneer speakers, so I think I am tending to lead towards them right now, and probably will get them on Monday.

Holy crap! I just noticed these CDT speakers have a Frequency response: 60Hz-20kHz whereas from the pioneer site it says the pioneer has 30Hz - 32kHz (weird). And the CDT speakers are 92db whereas the pioneer are 90db.

From those specs it seems the CDT speakers are tons better.


That brings me to another question, do any of you know if those would fit in the doors of a 1st gen protege?

Ah! no I just looked at the specs of the Cadence ZX651's. And they have a 60RMS and 120 peak power, plus 95db. That is better then those both up there. And all you guys have said to get Cadence.
Any good websites that are offering a good price on these? I found them for $100.00 at this www.audio-direct.com website.

hihoslva

I haven't read the whole post, so forgive me if I'm repeating info.

First - buy what sounds good to YOU. But! When auditioning speakers in a store, make sure they are run off the HEAD UNIT, NOT AN AMP! Unless you are buying an amp, too. And try to listen to them hooked up to a similar HU to yours. This is the only way to determine the sound accurately, without actually putting them in your car.

There is NO NEED to buy high-power handling speakers. If you are not using an amp, a set of speakers that take 60 wats RMS are a waste. You will not be able to feed them that much power, and they will not be running efficiently. It's not a BAD thing to buy them, but it won't make your sound any better than a lower-power handling set. Don't be roped in by high numbers - they really don't apply in this instance.

Efficiency is an important number when dealing with the relatively low power a deck puts out on its own. YOu are correct for looking at the higher sensitivity models - they will give you more output per watt. If you had 300 watts to work with, it wouldn't matter as much, but most HU's put out about 15 watts per channel, so a total of 60 watts or so. Forget the "max" output of the HU, becuase those numbers are crap, and they can only push that much with tons of speaker-killing distortion. Real-world is usually between 10 and 20 watts per channel.

I think you're on the right track. Keep auditioning speakers, and use your price as a guideline. Listen to whatever you can, then try to buy online - much cheaper. And while Kenwood makes low level subs, I have found that their mid-line speakers can be excellent deals. I used to have a set of 3-way 6x9s in another car, powered only from the deck, and they cranked VERY well. I believe the set cost me $80 - this was about 5 or 6 years ago. And they were nowhere near the most expensive.

Anyway - just had to chime in with some opinions. Good luck.

~HH