My head unit is dieing : (
July-12th-2002, 05:54 PM
#16
Show Layne some respect
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Long Island,NY
Posts: 2,458
Originally posted by blue LEDz
sony has just now produced a very functional high end head unit.
sony has just now produced a very functional high end head unit.
However, I have to question any car audio company that introduces an awesome deck like that one, with NO SECURITY FEATURES. The face doesn't flip, and it doesn't detach. I wouldn't spend $200 on a deck without at least SOME form of security, much less the $1000 that one costs.
Maybe Sony's reputation isn't wholly deserved. But there has to be a reason why they are generally snickered at by many who are into car audio. I'm sure the products are functional - and many of the bugs have been worked out of older designs. But the fact still stands that Sony car audio seems to be generally overpriced. Plus, the poor durability and sometimes poor performance of older models may have turned many consumers away. And the lack of security on a high end piece of equipment is a huge mistake IMO. Great deck - probably. Stolen deck - possibly. A big risk to take with $1000 - definitely.
July-12th-2002, 06:44 PM
#17
Protege Enthusiast
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 484
Pulling off the face plate only reduces the thief's appetite to steal your head unit. If that bastard wants to steal it, there's really nothing you can do to stop it from happening. My guess is that they don't normally steal the head unit for their own use, but to sell it for a quick turn-around. Now IF they're smart and have the choice, they would rather steal one that's "complete" (including the face plate), so it has a higher value. And without a face plate, it's pretty hard to guess what kind of head unit is it, so they might waste all "efforts" and end up stealing a Jensen (no offense to Jensen users). So tell me how much is a 2nd hand Jensen head (w/o face plate) unit worth?
So removing the face plate certainly helps a little, but don't really count on it.
BTW, it's "Dying" not "Dieing"
So removing the face plate certainly helps a little, but don't really count on it.
BTW, it's "Dying" not "Dieing"
July-12th-2002, 07:29 PM
#18
I Can Be Teh W1N!!!!
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,870
Originally posted by blue LEDz
a second hand jensen HU w/out faceplate is worth roughly one crack rock
and what's wrong with jensen? there the best thing k-mart carries
(yes i'm being sacastic since you can't hear my tone of voice over the internet)
a second hand jensen HU w/out faceplate is worth roughly one crack rock
and what's wrong with jensen? there the best thing k-mart carries (yes i'm being sacastic since you can't hear my tone of voice over the internet)
________
Vapir No2
Last edited by pr5owner; March-10th-2011 at 09:12 AM.
July-12th-2002, 08:18 PM
#19
Show Layne some respect
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Long Island,NY
Posts: 2,458
My faceplate comes with me every night, and I use the flip face (yep - it's a Kenwood) whenever I'm "out".
I don't pretend that it's really safe - but if I were a thief, I'd be looking for the easiest target. Why bust into a car for a deck when you don't even know what it is?
I believe that most decks that are stolen while the faceplate was gone were "scoped" out by the thief beforehand - so he knows what he's getting, and what plate to try and buy. Not always, but sometimes.
And even if it's only an illusion, I like the feeling of security from a detachable faceplate.
I don't pretend that it's really safe - but if I were a thief, I'd be looking for the easiest target. Why bust into a car for a deck when you don't even know what it is?
I believe that most decks that are stolen while the faceplate was gone were "scoped" out by the thief beforehand - so he knows what he's getting, and what plate to try and buy. Not always, but sometimes.
And even if it's only an illusion, I like the feeling of security from a detachable faceplate.
July-13th-2002, 12:17 AM
#20
Protege Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Oklahoma City OK- where it is flat
Posts: 487
As a praticing attourney, I have to tell you all, don't express this stuff too openly, it shows premeditation, which is a no no!!
Several of my favorite folks are on this thread right now, so I'm just chiming in. Again
The 5DI is an example of my issue with where sony is going- it is in the final analysis flash to me without substance. The screen is cool, but in the final true analysis in my book, that screen does zero for the actual sound the unit produces, indeed I could imagine it might have deterious results on the circut desgns and layouts. Is it a radio designed around a screensaver, or a screensaver that was added to a headunit that's first consideration was performance and sound?
BlueLEDz brings up a very good point though, if the sony product is reliable, and doesn't break, which is a assertion of the thread that cannot be proved as a statement, on as individual experences, then it is a fine and well priced entry point for the majority of folks who buy an aftermarket headunit.
(Sorry that is the legal side of me coming out- individual antidotes of how thier experence sucked is not the same as say Midwest Audio, an authorized service bay of Sony stating they get thousands of Sonys back compare to four Nakamichis in the last two months- is is personal belif vs. expert opinion based in experence and numbers.)
For every one system that I have been involved in where the budget for each individual aspect fo the system is 500+ dollars, I have been involved with ten systems where the total system price cannot exceed 500 to 750 dollars. In the market sony is choosing to play in, entry to mid level, they play as well as anyone. Many of use may have general taste above that level but to purely focus on our taste ignore the majority of folks who simply desire to purchase a "better" radio/CD.
Also- I have seen the MA audio in competition, and it is awsome stuff. The stuff is outstanding by rep, and looks to be built like a tank. The digital current control is supposed to make them 90+% efficient in output. I will look next weekend, there is a double point competition locally, and usually drags in folks from out of town! Like you, I am also very comfortable with Autotek. Depending on the competition you are complentating, I prefer multipules vs. one most of the time, better odds of not killing the whole system at once! I have seen an MA survive a amazing fight to the finish DB drag before that would have cooked my McIntosh hardware.
I would be as torn as you- I would probably go with MA because it is new and untried by me, and then just bite it if it did not live up to expectations, and it looks pretty damn cool. Check Nexxon on the web- I think they carry both at decent prices.
Security- ah what a topic!
There are laws about "man trapping" and people have been convicted over the intent to man trap so be careful out there ( I just checked on West Law).
In general, I try to make it as hard as I can to remove like real bolting, use of different type of screws, having the unit attached to a seperate alarm, and deception. It all can backfire though. I had a Nakamichi CD-700 installed in the Nissan, and someone decided they needed it more than me. I had the unit attached to the frame with rebar bolted into the chassis of the headunit, and the firewall. By the time they were done, the Nak was still there, but they had dystroyed the dash of the car, and also ripped the Nak into trash. The dash cost more than the Nakamichi to replace!
Anymore, I have dark tint on the windows to make it hard to see, a headunit with sometype of security, extra installation hardening, and a alarm. And I park in the garage, or under a light in a well traveled area.
Those damned detachable faceplates could have worked if the manufactures had ever bothered to follow the thought to the ends, provide registration and don't replace "lost" faceplates without proof and encoding. YOu can find faceplates on E-Bay most all of the time anymore, pretty obvious victims of robbery.
Does anyone remember the Escort DSP Radar Detector? For it's day the best X/K radar detector built and will still out perform many units today. It had a cool system, a plug in key with a chip. Every 90 days or so, it would signal you that you needed to plug in the key, if you didn't it would shut down and lock down the unit until it was keyed. But it did not require daily locking or unlocking. It was garenteed to be useless if stolen within 90 days. Each chip card was digitally signed and unique. There were no duplicates in the system. When you got the unit you had to enroll the unit and the key, and there were special instructions for changing the enrollment. You were then issued a sealed envelope with a credit card like plastic card in it. On it was the code needed to get a replacement key. Nothing else in the world could get you a repalcement key made, no amount of begging or dollars.
Now that was my kind of security! Ever since I have been waiting for some car audio company to come up with as much common sense and produce such a robust anti theft system.
Blaupunkt comes close with the digital ID card, but the point is to let the unit operate just fine, but force you to authinticate who you are or lock you out.
My two cents of how to make a stereo less attractive for theft.
Several of my favorite folks are on this thread right now, so I'm just chiming in. Again
The 5DI is an example of my issue with where sony is going- it is in the final analysis flash to me without substance. The screen is cool, but in the final true analysis in my book, that screen does zero for the actual sound the unit produces, indeed I could imagine it might have deterious results on the circut desgns and layouts. Is it a radio designed around a screensaver, or a screensaver that was added to a headunit that's first consideration was performance and sound?
BlueLEDz brings up a very good point though, if the sony product is reliable, and doesn't break, which is a assertion of the thread that cannot be proved as a statement, on as individual experences, then it is a fine and well priced entry point for the majority of folks who buy an aftermarket headunit.
(Sorry that is the legal side of me coming out- individual antidotes of how thier experence sucked is not the same as say Midwest Audio, an authorized service bay of Sony stating they get thousands of Sonys back compare to four Nakamichis in the last two months- is is personal belif vs. expert opinion based in experence and numbers.)
For every one system that I have been involved in where the budget for each individual aspect fo the system is 500+ dollars, I have been involved with ten systems where the total system price cannot exceed 500 to 750 dollars. In the market sony is choosing to play in, entry to mid level, they play as well as anyone. Many of use may have general taste above that level but to purely focus on our taste ignore the majority of folks who simply desire to purchase a "better" radio/CD.
Also- I have seen the MA audio in competition, and it is awsome stuff. The stuff is outstanding by rep, and looks to be built like a tank. The digital current control is supposed to make them 90+% efficient in output. I will look next weekend, there is a double point competition locally, and usually drags in folks from out of town! Like you, I am also very comfortable with Autotek. Depending on the competition you are complentating, I prefer multipules vs. one most of the time, better odds of not killing the whole system at once! I have seen an MA survive a amazing fight to the finish DB drag before that would have cooked my McIntosh hardware.
I would be as torn as you- I would probably go with MA because it is new and untried by me, and then just bite it if it did not live up to expectations, and it looks pretty damn cool. Check Nexxon on the web- I think they carry both at decent prices.
Security- ah what a topic!
There are laws about "man trapping" and people have been convicted over the intent to man trap so be careful out there ( I just checked on West Law).
In general, I try to make it as hard as I can to remove like real bolting, use of different type of screws, having the unit attached to a seperate alarm, and deception. It all can backfire though. I had a Nakamichi CD-700 installed in the Nissan, and someone decided they needed it more than me. I had the unit attached to the frame with rebar bolted into the chassis of the headunit, and the firewall. By the time they were done, the Nak was still there, but they had dystroyed the dash of the car, and also ripped the Nak into trash. The dash cost more than the Nakamichi to replace!
Anymore, I have dark tint on the windows to make it hard to see, a headunit with sometype of security, extra installation hardening, and a alarm. And I park in the garage, or under a light in a well traveled area.
Those damned detachable faceplates could have worked if the manufactures had ever bothered to follow the thought to the ends, provide registration and don't replace "lost" faceplates without proof and encoding. YOu can find faceplates on E-Bay most all of the time anymore, pretty obvious victims of robbery.
Does anyone remember the Escort DSP Radar Detector? For it's day the best X/K radar detector built and will still out perform many units today. It had a cool system, a plug in key with a chip. Every 90 days or so, it would signal you that you needed to plug in the key, if you didn't it would shut down and lock down the unit until it was keyed. But it did not require daily locking or unlocking. It was garenteed to be useless if stolen within 90 days. Each chip card was digitally signed and unique. There were no duplicates in the system. When you got the unit you had to enroll the unit and the key, and there were special instructions for changing the enrollment. You were then issued a sealed envelope with a credit card like plastic card in it. On it was the code needed to get a replacement key. Nothing else in the world could get you a repalcement key made, no amount of begging or dollars.
Now that was my kind of security! Ever since I have been waiting for some car audio company to come up with as much common sense and produce such a robust anti theft system.
Blaupunkt comes close with the digital ID card, but the point is to let the unit operate just fine, but force you to authinticate who you are or lock you out.
My two cents of how to make a stereo less attractive for theft.
July-14th-2002, 10:47 PM
#23
Protege Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Oklahoma City OK- where it is flat
Posts: 487
Hell yes I have Carpel! Nothing like narcotics and anti inflamitories to keep you going!!
I don't get the numbs too often or too bad, and I take breaks, like yesterday and most of today, to try to aviod the problems. By the time you feel with carpel, you have got it.
Use ergo keyboards and mice, and support you arms properly-
I don't get the numbs too often or too bad, and I take breaks, like yesterday and most of today, to try to aviod the problems. By the time you feel with carpel, you have got it.
Use ergo keyboards and mice, and support you arms properly-
July-19th-2002, 07:14 AM
#24
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 150
I have a JVC KD-LX111, The main reason I got it was for its safety (Folds flat, not over I have cupholders right in front of the HU), but now after reading what you guys had to say, I don't think any Stereo equipment is safe, oh well. I'm going to put the factory cassette player under the JVC, its my only defence from a car jacker.
I was also going to get a KD-LH1000, but I did want to carry the faceplate around with me everywhere I go, it has a really nice display too(Even thought the 1 grand sony beats it too death), it only cost $249.00.
Now only if JVC could combine the security of the KD-LX111 with the nice display of the KD-LH1000, then we would have a winner. ~~wink wink JVC~~
Heres my CD player
Heres the one I wanted but didn't like the removable face
I was also going to get a KD-LH1000, but I did want to carry the faceplate around with me everywhere I go, it has a really nice display too(Even thought the 1 grand sony beats it too death), it only cost $249.00.
Now only if JVC could combine the security of the KD-LX111 with the nice display of the KD-LH1000, then we would have a winner. ~~wink wink JVC~~
Heres my CD player
Heres the one I wanted but didn't like the removable face
July-23rd-2002, 04:37 AM
#26
formerly chastan
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: California, USA
Posts: 2,350
not trying to flame
Since people were talking about Sony...
When I was looking around at HUs, the Sony's look really nice, and say 50Wx4, but their RMS was usually about 17w, way lower than most with 22-25w RMS. Plus they were about the same price, and didn't have much else to offer for features. I guess this wouldn't really matter that much if you are running an amp, I don't remember what the pre-out voltages were either. I don't know about the reliability.
However, I haven't really been browsing in a while, Sony may have gotten better, plus, those were mostly their cheaper units.
More or less it seems like Sony is mostly brand name... although nobody's perfect, there is always something better than others, etc. I think you understand.
Just be objective in your research
When I was looking around at HUs, the Sony's look really nice, and say 50Wx4, but their RMS was usually about 17w, way lower than most with 22-25w RMS. Plus they were about the same price, and didn't have much else to offer for features. I guess this wouldn't really matter that much if you are running an amp, I don't remember what the pre-out voltages were either. I don't know about the reliability.
However, I haven't really been browsing in a while, Sony may have gotten better, plus, those were mostly their cheaper units.
More or less it seems like Sony is mostly brand name... although nobody's perfect, there is always something better than others, etc. I think you understand.
Just be objective in your research
July-24th-2002, 01:08 AM
#27
OWNZ A P5
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Ca
Posts: 477
Any brand stereo will have a defective units. It all depends on the luck of the draw. The larger companies have better quality control so there are fewer bad apples. I've seen instances where Koss and Craig stereos (cheapest stereos on the planet) can last for years without any problems. Simply saying that a particular brand isn't any good because a few people have gotten bad ones doesn't justify it. As the saying goes: "Bad news travels faster than good news." For every horror story there are 100 good stories, we just only hear about something when they go wrong.
July-24th-2002, 03:53 PM
#28
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: PA
Posts: 2,339
Well upon further inspection, I may get one of the new funky pioneer decks. My roomate just bought one and I love it. I can get the DEH7400 or whatever it is that plays mp3s for $250 + shipping, and has an actual volume adjustment **** (god I miss those things). I still haven't decided, buy my roomate's deck is pretty freaking awesome, and I still know how to do everything on it without reading the manual.
July-24th-2002, 09:18 PM
#29
Mr. Butlertron
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 414
Of all the audio decks Ive had friends own, only the Sony"s have constantly had problems. My friend has the complete Xplod system in his car. He cannot listen to his CD in his deck cause they skip(it has been this way since maybe a year after he got it), he has to use the changer which works fine. Another friend of mine had a deck whose mechanisms for ejecting cds broke. This after only a few months.(personally have never heard of anyone elses deck do that, especially so quickly)
As for saying that you can judge the reliability of a product by looking at how many returns are made in store is stupid. You could say that more pioneers come back, but thats just cause they sell more than the Sonys. I know alot of car-audio salespeople and they even tell their clientele not to get Sony.(which proves my point of less units being sold)
On the other I have a xm-3001sxd sony amplifier and am very satisfied with it. Also when i was shopping for car decks I noticed that the sony deck had the least amount of lag between mp3 tracks. You could barely tell that it was reading mp3s and not a regular cd. My pioneer HU takes a good 7-8 seconds to skip mp3 tracks.
All this was said to prove that Sony has some good components and some unreliable crap. Which is why people say Sony sucks. Because they cant keep a constant reliability on their car audio copmponents. If you know what you are shopping for and do good research you can tell the good from the bad, but for the average consumer it is better to stick to brands that have a higher quality across the board.
This is just my 2 cents. Well maybe a bit more.
As for saying that you can judge the reliability of a product by looking at how many returns are made in store is stupid. You could say that more pioneers come back, but thats just cause they sell more than the Sonys. I know alot of car-audio salespeople and they even tell their clientele not to get Sony.(which proves my point of less units being sold)
On the other I have a xm-3001sxd sony amplifier and am very satisfied with it. Also when i was shopping for car decks I noticed that the sony deck had the least amount of lag between mp3 tracks. You could barely tell that it was reading mp3s and not a regular cd. My pioneer HU takes a good 7-8 seconds to skip mp3 tracks.
All this was said to prove that Sony has some good components and some unreliable crap. Which is why people say Sony sucks. Because they cant keep a constant reliability on their car audio copmponents. If you know what you are shopping for and do good research you can tell the good from the bad, but for the average consumer it is better to stick to brands that have a higher quality across the board.
This is just my 2 cents. Well maybe a bit more.
July-25th-2002, 06:35 PM
#30
Mr. Butlertron
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 414
Actually the bass in his car is more than enough. He is actually selling one of his subs and is just going to use one. The reason he got a whole sony system is cause he had a crazy deal on them. He got half of cost. His system cost him practically nothing.