Factory speaker specs...
May-8th-2003, 04:11 AM
#1
Protege Newbie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Kansas City, MO.
Posts: 26
Factory speaker specs...
Anyone know what the specs are on the factory speakers in a 2003 Protege ES? Primarily, I'm looking for the frequency response range and the sensitivity levels. (Except for the tweeters in the sail panels. I'm not concerned with those right now.)
I was thinking of just getting the Kenwood speakers that come in the MSP either through a Mazda dealer or the web (www.mazdastuff.com).... or do you guys think that I could get something just as good (or better) at a retail store in the same price range? (About $225 for the doors and rears.)
Bottom line is this: I don't want to spend the money and take the time to swap out the stock speakers and then find out that the new speakers really didn't make much difference.
I see lots of recommendations for different speakers (which gets a bit confusing actually) to replace the stock ones, but I've yet to really read any testimonials about how much improvement there really was.
Sorry if this seems like an old topic, but I'm just trying to get down to the "nitty gritty" on speaker replacement.
Thanks in advance.
EDIT: Ugh... it never fails. No matter how carefully I look through the forum, I always find something only minutes AFTER I create a new thread. There's a thread about P5 speakers that gives me some ideas on speakers (except for factory specs... I'd still like to have those)... umm... or should I not consider the P5's speakers in comparison to the ones in my sedan??
Brain... melting...
...must have... more... cold... beer...
~OMW
I was thinking of just getting the Kenwood speakers that come in the MSP either through a Mazda dealer or the web (www.mazdastuff.com).... or do you guys think that I could get something just as good (or better) at a retail store in the same price range? (About $225 for the doors and rears.)
Bottom line is this: I don't want to spend the money and take the time to swap out the stock speakers and then find out that the new speakers really didn't make much difference.
I see lots of recommendations for different speakers (which gets a bit confusing actually) to replace the stock ones, but I've yet to really read any testimonials about how much improvement there really was.Sorry if this seems like an old topic, but I'm just trying to get down to the "nitty gritty" on speaker replacement.
Thanks in advance.
EDIT: Ugh... it never fails. No matter how carefully I look through the forum, I always find something only minutes AFTER I create a new thread. There's a thread about P5 speakers that gives me some ideas on speakers (except for factory specs... I'd still like to have those)... umm... or should I not consider the P5's speakers in comparison to the ones in my sedan??
Brain... melting...
...must have... more... cold... beer...
~OMW
Last edited by Old_Man_Wiggins; May-8th-2003 at 04:25 AM.
May-8th-2003, 01:22 PM
#2
get orvillized! WTF?
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: I am here --> x
Posts: 948
Okay William Shaffner (that is what you sounded like in your last line about beer). If you go with the kenwoods, get it from a stereo dealer or online somewhere because I hear that the car dealership charges more for the same speakers. If you are just using deck power, I hear a lot of people talk about how good the Infinity Reference speakers are, and they are inexpensive as well as have silk dome tweeters (almost unheard of in spkrs. in that particular price range). Personally, I haven't heard them before, so that is word of mouth. Why don't you go to places that sell car audio with your favorite tunes and listen to the various speakers running off of deck power (if that is what you intend to do) and see how you like them. What sounds good to me may not sound good to you, so that is the best advice I can give you as far as choosing speakers. Mainly check out the front speakers since that is the most important. If necessary, spend more money on the fronts than the rears. Hope this helps clarify any confusion.
Mister T
Mister T
May-8th-2003, 02:44 PM
#3
Show Layne some respect
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Long Island,NY
Posts: 2,458
Here's the basic formula:
Replace speakers only = better clarity, *possibly* a touch more volume.
Use of amplifier (either with the stock deck, an aftermarket deck, or simply buying a more powerful aftermarket deck alone) = Better volume, possibly a bit more clarity.
Use of amplifier AND better speakers - better volume AND clarity.
I would not recommend buying ANY speakers from the dealer. You are overpaying, plain and simple. $225 for all four doors for those particular Kenwood speakers is a horrible price. Retail, maybe $150 tops, and online, probably under $100.
If you plan on only changing the speakers (no amplifier), look for the highest sensitivity rating you can for those speakers. This is why Infinity speakers have been highly recommended for systems with only deck power - they have sensitivity ratings in the low 90s, which means they will be louder with the limited power from the deck than will lower-rated speakers.
For the price you'd pay for those Kenwoods from the dealer, you can buy a full Infinity setup for all four doors. Not only should they sound better, but they can later be amplified if you decide and will take plenty of power. They'll sound pretty good with the stock deck. But if you can, hit 'em with 50 - 100 watts of juice per channel from an amp and listen to them sing....
I'm not saying the Infinity is the best out there - it's just an example of a high-sensitivity speaker that will sound good, and don't need to be replaced if you decide to add an amp later. There are plenty of others - probably including the MSP Kenwoods. Just don't get ripped at the dealer for them. Try to audition speakers in a store (hooked up to a deck - NOT an amplifier!) then find something YOU like the sound of, has a high sensitivity rating, and can take some power if you think there is any chance you will later amplify them.
~HH
Replace speakers only = better clarity, *possibly* a touch more volume.
Use of amplifier (either with the stock deck, an aftermarket deck, or simply buying a more powerful aftermarket deck alone) = Better volume, possibly a bit more clarity.
Use of amplifier AND better speakers - better volume AND clarity.
I would not recommend buying ANY speakers from the dealer. You are overpaying, plain and simple. $225 for all four doors for those particular Kenwood speakers is a horrible price. Retail, maybe $150 tops, and online, probably under $100.
If you plan on only changing the speakers (no amplifier), look for the highest sensitivity rating you can for those speakers. This is why Infinity speakers have been highly recommended for systems with only deck power - they have sensitivity ratings in the low 90s, which means they will be louder with the limited power from the deck than will lower-rated speakers.
For the price you'd pay for those Kenwoods from the dealer, you can buy a full Infinity setup for all four doors. Not only should they sound better, but they can later be amplified if you decide and will take plenty of power. They'll sound pretty good with the stock deck. But if you can, hit 'em with 50 - 100 watts of juice per channel from an amp and listen to them sing....
I'm not saying the Infinity is the best out there - it's just an example of a high-sensitivity speaker that will sound good, and don't need to be replaced if you decide to add an amp later. There are plenty of others - probably including the MSP Kenwoods. Just don't get ripped at the dealer for them. Try to audition speakers in a store (hooked up to a deck - NOT an amplifier!) then find something YOU like the sound of, has a high sensitivity rating, and can take some power if you think there is any chance you will later amplify them.
~HH
May-8th-2003, 02:55 PM
#4
Protege Newbie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Kansas City, MO.
Posts: 26
Originally posted by hihoslva
I would not recommend buying ANY speakers from the dealer. You are overpaying, plain and simple. $225 for all four doors for those particular Kenwood speakers is a horrible price. Retail, maybe $150 tops, and online, probably under $100.
I would not recommend buying ANY speakers from the dealer. You are overpaying, plain and simple. $225 for all four doors for those particular Kenwood speakers is a horrible price. Retail, maybe $150 tops, and online, probably under $100.
Hmm... the $225 (actually it's $215, but I figured a little shipping cost in there) IS an online price for the MSP Kenwoods! Found them here.. http://www.mazdastuff.com/directory.cfm?CategoryID=212 They want $102 for the fronts and $113 for the rears. Hmm... maybe they get thier stuff directly from a dealership?
Oh, well. I see what you are getting at, and I'll take a serious look at the Infinity stuff. Yeah, I'm just gonna run the stock deck for now, but I may add an amp later. As you guys pointed out, I'll see if I can do some running around this weekend and audition some speakers. I went to Circuit City yesterday, actually, but they had a LOUSY selection of 5x7/6x8 speakers to listen to. I think they had like... four models. Ugh.
Thanks guys.
~OMW
Last edited by Old_Man_Wiggins; May-8th-2003 at 02:57 PM.
May-8th-2003, 03:13 PM
#5
Show Layne some respect
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Long Island,NY
Posts: 2,458
Well, just for comparison's sake:
Infinity Reference 6x9's (rear deck), $74: http://www.ikesound.com/Prod_Details.asp?Prod_Id=49
Infinity Reference 6x8's (front doors), $64:
http://www.ikesound.com/Prod_Details.asp?Prod_Id=1344
Prices INCLUDE shipping.
Personally, I'm not a huge fan of Kenwood speakers. I like Kenwood stuff, just their speakers and subs leave a lot to be desired for the price, IMHO.
However, Ikesound DOES have Kenwoods, too - and you can get the Excelon series (supposed to be better than the regular stuff) for still less than MazdaStuff's price on the MSP Kennys.
Hell, even Crutchfield does okay here: http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S...=0&cc=01&avf=N
and http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S...=0&cc=01&avf=N
$60 and $70 for Kenwoods very comparable to (or maybe better than) the "Mazda" Kenwoods.
Seek, and ye shall find, Old Man!
~HH
Infinity Reference 6x9's (rear deck), $74: http://www.ikesound.com/Prod_Details.asp?Prod_Id=49
Infinity Reference 6x8's (front doors), $64:
http://www.ikesound.com/Prod_Details.asp?Prod_Id=1344
Prices INCLUDE shipping.
Personally, I'm not a huge fan of Kenwood speakers. I like Kenwood stuff, just their speakers and subs leave a lot to be desired for the price, IMHO.
However, Ikesound DOES have Kenwoods, too - and you can get the Excelon series (supposed to be better than the regular stuff) for still less than MazdaStuff's price on the MSP Kennys.
Hell, even Crutchfield does okay here: http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S...=0&cc=01&avf=N
and http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S...=0&cc=01&avf=N
$60 and $70 for Kenwoods very comparable to (or maybe better than) the "Mazda" Kenwoods.
Seek, and ye shall find, Old Man!
~HH
May-8th-2003, 09:41 PM
#6
Protege Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Oklahoma City OK- where it is flat
Posts: 487
You are on the right path though- try before you buy! Speakers and their sound is very subjective- so get some you actually like the sound of- don't take our word for it! I think you info list you as a resident of KC City (nice fountains!), there should be a few decent audio shops- so don't just limit your sampling to the large folks like Best Buy. Is there an Ultimate electronices in KC? I know they are in St Louis... But check the smaller shops in the yellow pages- you might find a good diversity of brands. You mentioned the lack of 6x8 size, that is very true, but a 5.25 will fit quite easily with an adapter plate, and many folks enjoy the challange of adapting a 6.5 to the front doors. By just opening up the field to 5.25 speakers in addition, you should find a lot more to audition.
Then if you want you can price them on the internet.
Mazdastuff by the way is a parts operaton of a legitmate Mazda Dealer. They do sell stuff at lower price points than most dealers which is good when you just gotta have OEM. Other folks points on the price of Mazda Kenwood speakers is quite true though- even at Mazdastuff discounts, the very same hardware can be had via E-Bay for half of those prices! (I know- I did that once). Figure it like this there are two mark ups on the Kenwood hardware being sold by Mazda, Kenwood's to Mazda, and Mazda's to customers. Frankly most of the time car audio is an afterthought of design to most manufacturers. If they do something special they love to do it in a fashion that makes it hard to install aftermarket equipment at all, the new RX-8 is a clean example of this in action.
The stock speakers in the car are made by pioneer, and are pure paper. They use dual cone technology, which means there is a smaller, second little cone built into the larger driver. Your question is interesting, no I never did test the sensitivity of the stock speakers in the shop- I would imagine it was actually pretty high- for no other reason than the speakers simplicity and they would be louder with the stock headunit. I did not test the frequency range either with the RTA, but there are two factors I would point out- first the magnets are not that heavy so the low frequencies would not go too awfully low, and second the daul cone design is not know for high frequency delivery. The sail plane tweeters like you have improve that a great deal in the newer cars. Also the 6x9 rear speakers will have a touch lower frequencies- so lets just say that system probably covers 50-18,000 htz.
The p-5 folks here will kill me for this but sedans are better sound stages hands down! Much easier to control the enviorment. The advantage of the wagon is all that room for subs! The 6x8 or 5.25 in the front and the 6x9 in the rear will make a very nice soundstage- personally I am not too big on the rear door location, but is just me. I am still too much of a kid to admit that a wagon might be useful with my daughter!
So yes- newer speakers will make a notable difference- and by auditioning them the way you are, you will know before they are in the car that they sound better to you than the stock setup.
Keep on auditioning, I think it is always a fun thing to do.
By the way, I like Focal, Dynaudio, Image Dynamics and Boston Acoustics among others. They are mostly on the high end cost wise..
But you should be able to find a good number of options in your price range.
Good Luck, and let us all know please on what you settle in on!!
Then if you want you can price them on the internet.
Mazdastuff by the way is a parts operaton of a legitmate Mazda Dealer. They do sell stuff at lower price points than most dealers which is good when you just gotta have OEM. Other folks points on the price of Mazda Kenwood speakers is quite true though- even at Mazdastuff discounts, the very same hardware can be had via E-Bay for half of those prices! (I know- I did that once). Figure it like this there are two mark ups on the Kenwood hardware being sold by Mazda, Kenwood's to Mazda, and Mazda's to customers. Frankly most of the time car audio is an afterthought of design to most manufacturers. If they do something special they love to do it in a fashion that makes it hard to install aftermarket equipment at all, the new RX-8 is a clean example of this in action.
The stock speakers in the car are made by pioneer, and are pure paper. They use dual cone technology, which means there is a smaller, second little cone built into the larger driver. Your question is interesting, no I never did test the sensitivity of the stock speakers in the shop- I would imagine it was actually pretty high- for no other reason than the speakers simplicity and they would be louder with the stock headunit. I did not test the frequency range either with the RTA, but there are two factors I would point out- first the magnets are not that heavy so the low frequencies would not go too awfully low, and second the daul cone design is not know for high frequency delivery. The sail plane tweeters like you have improve that a great deal in the newer cars. Also the 6x9 rear speakers will have a touch lower frequencies- so lets just say that system probably covers 50-18,000 htz.
The p-5 folks here will kill me for this but sedans are better sound stages hands down! Much easier to control the enviorment. The advantage of the wagon is all that room for subs! The 6x8 or 5.25 in the front and the 6x9 in the rear will make a very nice soundstage- personally I am not too big on the rear door location, but is just me. I am still too much of a kid to admit that a wagon might be useful with my daughter!
So yes- newer speakers will make a notable difference- and by auditioning them the way you are, you will know before they are in the car that they sound better to you than the stock setup.
Keep on auditioning, I think it is always a fun thing to do.
By the way, I like Focal, Dynaudio, Image Dynamics and Boston Acoustics among others. They are mostly on the high end cost wise..
But you should be able to find a good number of options in your price range.
Good Luck, and let us all know please on what you settle in on!!
May-8th-2003, 10:55 PM
#7
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Montreal
Posts: 137
i have a different opinion on front speakers, i changed my rear speakers first and found those made a bigger dif than the fronts, i put infinity kappa in the rear and they sound awesome, all the brights and bass that i need, i only recently ereplaced the front speakers and they don't sound as good or as loud as the rear, but they complete the all around sound with some good mids, i'm still not sure if i want to get an amp or a better hu, i would keep my stock hu but i find my volume is always at the halfway mark if not a bit more and i'm afraid to damage the speakers
May-9th-2003, 01:30 AM
#8
Protege Newbie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Kansas City, MO.
Posts: 26
I knew it would be a good idea to join this forum.
Props to Hiho for the links... very helpful!
And also to Dave for the insight/experience. 
Okay, so now I just need to do some looking (and listening) around, and I will definately check out places other than Best Buy and such. There are indeed a couple of smaller pro audio shops here in North Kansas City, and I'm sure there are many others in the metro area. I checked with Superpages.com for Ultimate Electronics but it appears that they are exclusive to the St. Louis region.
At this point, the specs on the factory speakers is no longer important. (They might be interesting, perhaps... but not important.) I can see now that I don't need that information to select a good set of aftermarket speakers.
Alrighty then... as soon as I find a set that I like, I'll be sure to let ya'll know what I bought.
*mumbles*
... now, where is that thread about how to take the door panels off... hmmm...
~OMW
Props to Hiho for the links... very helpful!
And also to Dave for the insight/experience. Okay, so now I just need to do some looking (and listening) around, and I will definately check out places other than Best Buy and such. There are indeed a couple of smaller pro audio shops here in North Kansas City, and I'm sure there are many others in the metro area. I checked with Superpages.com for Ultimate Electronics but it appears that they are exclusive to the St. Louis region.At this point, the specs on the factory speakers is no longer important. (They might be interesting, perhaps... but not important.) I can see now that I don't need that information to select a good set of aftermarket speakers.
Alrighty then... as soon as I find a set that I like, I'll be sure to let ya'll know what I bought.
*mumbles*
... now, where is that thread about how to take the door panels off... hmmm...
~OMW
May-24th-2003, 01:32 AM
#9
Protege Newbie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Kansas City, MO.
Posts: 26
Okay then... this is a follow up post to let you guys know what I did.
I went around town and auditioned a few speakers here and there, but to be honest, I really didn't hear too many speakers that I really liked. Most shops that I went to... well, the salesperson would talk about some 6x9's and stuff, but it wouldn't take long before they would start steering me towards a boom system with amps, sub, head unit, blah blah blah...
Yeah, great, I would love to do that later, but I just don't have an extra $1,000 lying around. (Actually, I do, but I'm saving up for a kick-*** 55" HDTV.)
So, I followed hihoslva's links and ordered the Infinity reference speakers. 6952i 6x9's for the rear, and 6802cf 5x7's for the front. Installation went very well, and I was surprised at how relatively easy it was to remove the door panels and rear deck. The Infinity's sound really good... much better than stock, which was what I was looking for. Sure, they're not perfect, but they do play pretty damn loud on the factory HU. The highs are a little bright for my taste, so I have to tweek the treble down quite a bit from normal, but overall they work very well.
Can't say much about thier bass response, but I can't expect much without a sealed enclosure on them, obviously. I think I may have reversed the polarity on the one front speaker, but that shouldn't hurt anything... should it? I didn't know if the red wire or the white wire was positive, so I guessed. (Used the red as positive.)
Anyway, big thanks to everyone who posted on this thread and to the other users who have supplied the community with valuable information. (Especially the pics showing how to get the door panels off.)
Peace.
~OMW
I went around town and auditioned a few speakers here and there, but to be honest, I really didn't hear too many speakers that I really liked. Most shops that I went to... well, the salesperson would talk about some 6x9's and stuff, but it wouldn't take long before they would start steering me towards a boom system with amps, sub, head unit, blah blah blah...
Yeah, great, I would love to do that later, but I just don't have an extra $1,000 lying around. (Actually, I do, but I'm saving up for a kick-*** 55" HDTV.
)So, I followed hihoslva's links and ordered the Infinity reference speakers. 6952i 6x9's for the rear, and 6802cf 5x7's for the front. Installation went very well, and I was surprised at how relatively easy it was to remove the door panels and rear deck. The Infinity's sound really good... much better than stock, which was what I was looking for.
Sure, they're not perfect, but they do play pretty damn loud on the factory HU. The highs are a little bright for my taste, so I have to tweek the treble down quite a bit from normal, but overall they work very well.Can't say much about thier bass response, but I can't expect much without a sealed enclosure on them, obviously. I think I may have reversed the polarity on the one front speaker, but that shouldn't hurt anything... should it? I didn't know if the red wire or the white wire was positive, so I guessed. (Used the red as positive.)
Anyway, big thanks to everyone who posted on this thread and to the other users who have supplied the community with valuable information. (Especially the pics showing how to get the door panels off.)
Peace.
~OMW
May-24th-2003, 03:52 AM
#10
Show Layne some respect
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Long Island,NY
Posts: 2,458
Glad things went well, OMW!
Door speakers really don't need enclosures - they are designed to run "infinite baffle", meaning no enlcosure. Putting an enclosure on them would probably hurt the response more than help it.
I'm glad you like the Infinity stuff - I have always found them to be a very detailed speaker at good prices.
You mentioned the bass response (or lack thereof). This is a combination of factors. Most of the time, speakers with a high sensitivity are somewhat lacking in the bass. It's a function of having something highly efficient - basically, the cone and surround are very light (in weight), and the surround and suspension are also not as "tight" as on other speakers. This makes them move easier with low power, and thus - get louder and more detailed. But the trade-off is a lack of real bass extension. I have 125 watts running to an Infinity component set, and even still - there is not much bass from them. This is not so much a function of Infinity speakers, as it is the way almost all high-sensitivity speakers sound. If you got a set of MB Quarts for example, you would probably get more bass in the mix, but they have much lower sensitivity levels (mid 80s), so you would not have as much volume - especially with the very low power the stock deck puts to them. The sound might be more bass/treble balanced, but the overall output would be very noticeably less.
Reversing the polarity shouldn't "hurt" anything, but you might not be getting the output you should. If you cut the stock plugs off the speaker wires, you should be able to check them against the wire colors and against the stock speaker to see which is + and -. If you have the time, I would check it out. You won't ruin anything leaving it as-is, but IMHO, better to have them wired correctly.
I have a feeling OMW is gonna be after a subwoofer next..... Let us know how we can help when the time comes.....
~HH
Door speakers really don't need enclosures - they are designed to run "infinite baffle", meaning no enlcosure. Putting an enclosure on them would probably hurt the response more than help it.
I'm glad you like the Infinity stuff - I have always found them to be a very detailed speaker at good prices.
You mentioned the bass response (or lack thereof). This is a combination of factors. Most of the time, speakers with a high sensitivity are somewhat lacking in the bass. It's a function of having something highly efficient - basically, the cone and surround are very light (in weight), and the surround and suspension are also not as "tight" as on other speakers. This makes them move easier with low power, and thus - get louder and more detailed. But the trade-off is a lack of real bass extension. I have 125 watts running to an Infinity component set, and even still - there is not much bass from them. This is not so much a function of Infinity speakers, as it is the way almost all high-sensitivity speakers sound. If you got a set of MB Quarts for example, you would probably get more bass in the mix, but they have much lower sensitivity levels (mid 80s), so you would not have as much volume - especially with the very low power the stock deck puts to them. The sound might be more bass/treble balanced, but the overall output would be very noticeably less.
Reversing the polarity shouldn't "hurt" anything, but you might not be getting the output you should. If you cut the stock plugs off the speaker wires, you should be able to check them against the wire colors and against the stock speaker to see which is + and -. If you have the time, I would check it out. You won't ruin anything leaving it as-is, but IMHO, better to have them wired correctly.
I have a feeling OMW is gonna be after a subwoofer next.....
Let us know how we can help when the time comes.....~HH
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