kenji4861

I'm hearing there's an A-plan, S-plan.

The invoice written for us to see is $15,274

According to some of the posts on here, this means that

Dealer Invoice - $14510
Employee Price - $15090
Our Invoice - $15274

Would I be able to purchase it at $15,274 including holdback, advertisement fees telling them that they get it in for $14510?

Buttersideup

$15,271 is the invoice without the destination fee in the US (but you said $15,274, so I'll calc with that), holdback is 3% or $458.22, dealer and consumer incentives are null right now, floorplan is probably negligible (less than $75), your actual dealer cost is about $14,815.78. How did you get $14,510?

Best way to do this is ask for 5% over their actual cost (invoice - holdback - incentives - floorplan + * 1.05 = fair price). They can sell at this price and still make money and not hassle you for more. Go in with this price and they will know you are an informed buyer. I did this with my Miata and got a great deal. With my P5 I gave them 3.5% since the cars were not moving well here and I had two dealerships outbid each other.

Anyway, that puts your target price at $15,295.78 by my calcs using your dealer cost. You don't have to pay for ad fees. That's a bogus charge in my mind. You should pay dealer cost + destination fee + tax and tags only unless you get suckered in on undercoating or Scotchgard.

You neglected to add the $480 destination fee...so that means you're up to $15,775.78. Now...subtract the Grad Rebate and you're at $15,375.78...sdd the tax and tags, and you're up to about $16,705.85 (your tax is 8% + $100 for tags) out-the-door.

You may hear of people paying advertised invoice or less, but they usually end up paying for bogus fees, taking a hit on the trade-in or not taking into account "secret" dealer incentives. Lots of people who pay ad invoice end up paying thousands more than they had to (I think toyota has some secret dealer incentives now over $5000!!). Anyway, dealers won't sell much below a 5% profit if at all...especially on a popular car.

You may be able to get it lower, but it seems hardly worth the hassle for $100. People spend hours negotiating against a stacked deck...my time is more valuable than that. I emailed 25 dealerships with my terms and got lots of responses and took the best one. I spent no time in a dealership, no time on the phone...I got my P5 in three days with no hassle and the sales manager respected every wish to the letter. Spent all of 2 hours finding the price, writing and responding to emails, pitting two dealerships against each other in a bidding war and filling out paperwork and driving off the lot. No stress, nothing.

Go here: www.carbuyingtips.com

--Dean

kenji4861

Cool, I guess the most I'll be paying up is $19k. Thanks a lot I'll try that.

kenji4861

I'm graduating June, 2003. It says, we have to have graduated 2 years ago, or graduate in the next 6 months to qualify for the rebate. Is it possible to still get the rebate? Thanks!

kenji4861

How did you find out the actual dealer invoice?

I came up with mine, because someone told me the dealer invoice was 95% of the invoice we know of.

Buttersideup

I wouldn't count on that calculation. The moonroof invoice is 80% of MSRP. Here are the actuals...first price is invoice, second is MSRP.

Sorry the formatting sucks, but the [c o d e] tag didn't help much...

Base Price $15,271 $16,335
Destination Fee $480 $480
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Options

AW3 Polished Alloy Wheels $400 $500
CDC 6-Disc CD Changer $400 $500
AB3 ABSystem w/ Side Airbags $656 $800
AT1 Automatic Transmission $720 $800
CGN Cargo Net $28 $35
CAS Cassette Deck $120 $150
FLM Floor Mats $64 $80
MND Moonroof Deflector $32 $40
PSL Perimeter Alarm $176 $220
MR1 Power Moonroof $560 $700
WLK Wheel Locks $24 $30

Add these up, subtract 3% for holdback, multiply by 1.05% for target price, multiply by 1.08% for tax, add your $200 DMV fee (I paid $100, but I'm in PA, so...) and that should be your target out the door price. The only other deduction you may be able to use is is floorplan if you can find out what it is. I didn't worry about it as it's usually palrty on moving inventory ($50 - $150). Just make sure they don't charge you "floorplan" or "dealer floorplan interest" or "wholesale financial reserves". They get that from the factory and charging you is double collecting. You may get "lucky" and have one quote that to you as a charge...now you know how much it is and can deduct it!

You do not need to pay ad fees, prep fees, floorplan, holdback...anything beyond the actual car and tax and tags. My dealer did not charge any prep fees beyond normal notary. I really think this is because I entered into the deal in control and well informed. They don't mess with an informed consumer. Someone else will walk in after you and pay too much. If you walk in with their actual bottom line price in hand...which kinda blows their mind sometimes...they know you're hip and treat you right.. BTW, I asked a friend who's a dealer in Florida for minimum out the door price on one of these cars and it came out to within three dollars of what the above will give you. They want your service business more than extra profit on the sale. One or two warranty service jobs and they've made more than that extra $200.

About dealers and salepeople...yeah...many are ******. But lots aren't. They're in a business with low margins, high pressure, high competition and nasty work conditions. The "bad" ones take advantage of customers because most people let them. Tables are turning thanks to discussion boards like this, Edmunds, www.carbuyingtips.com , etc. The dealership world is changing...expect the new car buying process to get kinder over the next ten years...but watch out for service and used cars. They will need to take up the slack in profits.

As for the Grad Rebate...going by what you quoted above, it doesn't sound good...but talk to your dealer. They don't much care if you get it or not since the factory pays them for it. Be nice and maybe something can get worked out. As always, enter a dealership with a chip on your shoulder and they'll want to screw you as much as possible...seeing you pay too much or walk out the door defeated and carless would be just fine with them. Kill them with kindness.



--Dean

kenji4861

Thanks Butter!
Here's my price plan

Base Price $15,271 $16,335
Destination Fee $480 $480
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Options

AB3 ABSystem w/ Side Airbags $656 $800
AT1 Automatic Transmission $720 $800
FLM Floor Mats $64 $80
MND Moonroof Deflector $32 $40
MR1 Power Moonroof $560 $700
----------------------------------------

Total Invoice Cost $17783
Dealer Holdback -3% - 533.49
-----------------
$17249.51
x 1.05 - dealer profit
-----------------
$18112
x $1.08 - tax
-----------------
$19561
+ $200
---------
$19761

Man, that's a lot of money. and NO CHANCE of them selling it to me for below invoice huh... $20k.. hmm.. I'm going to need to think about this or Subaru Impreza or Civic now.

Buttersideup

Well now...I wouldn't say it's hopeless to get one cheaper, but I wouldn't count on it. I'd expect that's gonna be your price, but the economy is slow now and indicators are constantly up and down. If you wait a little, the factory may start offering incentives, which may drop your out-the-door 1k or so...this is the slow season...buy right before the new year and you may get a great deal.

So...do the email or fax attack. Write a nice businesslike note to all of the the fleet sales managers within 100 miles (use his/her name...not "Dear Sir:"...do your research), outline what color and options you want and ask them for their best price (check out fool.com for letter examples and detailed instructions). Chances are, you'll get a couple right around what you've worked out above. Now pit them against each other and see if anyone gives you more. Maybe you can get the out the door down to $19k.

--Dean