Sick of Protege engine-bashing (automotive press)
April-12th-2003, 08:23 PM
#46
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 97
hopefully this will make people feel better
does anyone read car & driver?
well they love the pro's!!
one of their issues couple of months ago did a compact or economy car comparison and the protege came in 1st, the real shocker is that the ELANTRA came in second, they beat out honda, nissan, and everything else in its class.
and in another issue, comparing the new impreze (not WRX) the MP3, i think nissan specV? and some other cars. the MP3 came in 1st!!. even though it was way underpowered compared to the impreza and other cars, it won. they loved the car, especially the handling!!!!
then in another issue, they were doing a exotic car comparo, and they had a pro5 as their equipment car, they said the handing on this car was good enough to keep up with the big boys on tighter roads
unfortunetly, they dont like the mazda SPEED as much
in their latest issu it came in 3rd, nissan specV 4th, focus SVT 2nd!!! and the new SRT-4 1st (return of the domestics!)
does anyone read car & driver?
well they love the pro's!!
one of their issues couple of months ago did a compact or economy car comparison and the protege came in 1st, the real shocker is that the ELANTRA came in second, they beat out honda, nissan, and everything else in its class.
and in another issue, comparing the new impreze (not WRX) the MP3, i think nissan specV? and some other cars. the MP3 came in 1st!!. even though it was way underpowered compared to the impreza and other cars, it won. they loved the car, especially the handling!!!!
then in another issue, they were doing a exotic car comparo, and they had a pro5 as their equipment car, they said the handing on this car was good enough to keep up with the big boys on tighter roads
unfortunetly, they dont like the mazda SPEED as much
in their latest issu it came in 3rd, nissan specV 4th, focus SVT 2nd!!! and the new SRT-4 1st (return of the domestics!)
Last edited by lukasz70; April-12th-2003 at 08:26 PM.
April-13th-2003, 01:22 AM
#48
WiCky=))
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 883
[QUOTE]Aside from that, this engine is a raucous, irritating, comparatively primitive and inefficient design. It's got an outdated, heavy-*** iron block (compared to offerings from other mainstream Japanese auto makers) and no variable valve timing whatsoever.
Tell me how many cars in the Protege's class have variable valve timing?
Sentra 1.8, nope.
Lancer 2.0, nope.
Neon 2.0, nope.
Civic 1.7 non-VTEC, nope.
Elantra 2.0, nope.
Focus 2.0 Zetec (non-SVT) nope.
Aerio 2.0, nope.
Spectra 2.0, nope.
Corolla, 1.8, yup.
Civic 1.7 V-TEC, yup.
Wow, so just because two out of 2 out of 10 cars have a variable valve timing system, Protege's FS-DE sucks and is primitive?
To top this off, 3 of the cars here have SOHC engines.
I don't see you point on how the FS-DE is a "is a raucous, irritating, comparatively primitive and inefficient design " Please elaborate.
Tell me how many cars in the Protege's class have variable valve timing?
Sentra 1.8, nope.
Lancer 2.0, nope.
Neon 2.0, nope.
Civic 1.7 non-VTEC, nope.
Elantra 2.0, nope.
Focus 2.0 Zetec (non-SVT) nope.
Aerio 2.0, nope.
Spectra 2.0, nope.
Corolla, 1.8, yup.
Civic 1.7 V-TEC, yup.
Wow, so just because two out of 2 out of 10 cars have a variable valve timing system, Protege's FS-DE sucks and is primitive?
To top this off, 3 of the cars here have SOHC engines.
I don't see you point on how the FS-DE is a "is a raucous, irritating, comparatively primitive and inefficient design " Please elaborate.
April-13th-2003, 10:37 AM
#49
Chillin' like a Villain
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Aliso Viejo, CA
Posts: 160
This thread is getting a little over drawn,kinda funny actually. The bottom line is like TheMan said, no car is perfect you could find something to bitch about for any car. I picked the protege for its all around perfomance and good looks. There are some things I wish I could change, but I dont regret buying the car for a second. I am leaving in an hour to go to Mazda Rev it up and I will support what I believe is one of the best car manufactures out there. I love my zoom zoom.
April-14th-2003, 01:04 AM
#50
Hooray for Zoidberg!
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 491
If anything, I like the sound of my FS-DE. Many of my friends have noted that it sounds really nice, much better than Civics , Integras, etc. It sound rougher, bigger, and more powerful to me, and it makes decent power and MOST importantly it has torque. Nuff said.
April-14th-2003, 09:34 AM
#51
Get in my belly!!!
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: FL
Posts: 362
This whole post reminds me of two things. First is when the Pontiac Fiero came out everyone was complaining that it was an underpowered pice of crap. But people still bought them. Why? because they looked great. People were blowing them up not just because of a poor design of the fuel system but because they were driving them soo hard like a sports car when infact all it was, was an econo box. Then pontiac saw the market for it and built the V6 powered GT. But it was too late. Until then it was an econobox along the same lines as the Prizim, Metro, and Capri and was labled the car that blows up. Our cars are sporty cars but not sports cars. Its true that compared to other cars ours are a little underpowered but If you look at the whole package the Protege in a well rounded compact car for under $17,000 US. The only reason the magazines seem to pick on the P5 and Protege is that almost every other manufacturer has a hopped up version of their offerings that they can drool over. THe protege only had the MP3 which was looked at alot like the OZ lancer, Not much gains to really enjoy. Problem with the Mazda Speed is that although it gives us the power we desired it was like an after thought because alot of the other manufaturers make the same numbers with out the turbo and it dosent compete with WRX and soon to come Evo. I personally like my Pro and am satisfied with its acceleration. Eventually I am going to but an old muscle car to tinker with for the thrill of acceleration.
Second thing it reminds me of is the MHz wars. More Mhz the better. A lot of people didnt even consider that yeah you have a 3GHz computer with an 8MHz TNT 2 video card. People to focused of processing power that they for get to lookl at the whole package. I my self would prefer a slower computer with equalized performance accrossed the board.
Im done
Second thing it reminds me of is the MHz wars. More Mhz the better. A lot of people didnt even consider that yeah you have a 3GHz computer with an 8MHz TNT 2 video card. People to focused of processing power that they for get to lookl at the whole package. I my self would prefer a slower computer with equalized performance accrossed the board.
Im done
April-14th-2003, 03:15 PM
#53
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Weak Engines
A lot of the things that I am reading you complain about are pretty minor, I mean when a car is started in the morning , it is noisy no matter whay , want a quiet car , get a benz .. or bmw....
The Corolla is a nice car , but by far it is not a performer and I don't forsee it haveing the potential that a Protege 5 would ever have ,, much less a protege. But if getting 40 mpg is what suites you then maybe you should purchase that car. and at least then you will be happy
Bruce
The Corolla is a nice car , but by far it is not a performer and I don't forsee it haveing the potential that a Protege 5 would ever have ,, much less a protege. But if getting 40 mpg is what suites you then maybe you should purchase that car. and at least then you will be happy
Bruce
Originally posted by ProtegeMaster
Sorry that article pissed you off, JoeT. I've long made known my stance when it comes to the FS-DE; I think it sucks.
I've never been a racer/ricer by any means-- I'm just an average fellow who can appreciate a powerful engine, but generally doesn't drive that fast, anyway, and more appreciate efficiency, quiet operation, and reliability. The current engine in the Protege only delivers ONE desirable characteristic: Reliability.
Aside from that, this engine is a raucous, irritating, comparatively primitive and inefficient design. It's got an outdated, heavy-*** iron block (compared to offerings from other mainstream Japanese auto makers) and no variable valve timing whatsoever. I've always been offended that Mazda has been satisfied keeping it in the Protege when this car deserves so much better, as do the people who have supported Mazda by buying their products.
And for all you naysayers who are going to get all pissy because I'm ripping on the FS-DE, you should consider that there's a reason this engine will be dropped by Mazda when the next generation Protege/Mazda3 comes out, and it's not because they're simply bored of it: This engine can't compete against those engines offered by, for instance, Toyota, Honda, or Nissan. The FS-DE is noisier, less efficient, and heavier than it should be, especially given that, for Christ sake, we're in the 21st Century, dammit. Consider the engine in the current generation Corolla-- It's a 1.8 liter that delivers the same horsepower as the Protege yet delivers 40 MPG on the highway. I'm not saying the Corolla is the ultimate car, but put THAT engine in the Protege and I'd be happy. THAT'S what the Protege should be delivering, but isn't. Why? Because nearly everyone else has moved on to better engines while Mazda hasn't. It's a simple as that.
Every time I fire up my Protege in the morning I can't say I enjoy listening to the sounds of a diesel engine-- And that's what it sounds like, you all know it: That VTCS rattle. I find it embarrassing, personally. Even after warming up the engine is always noisy.
I actually still enjoy driving the Protege around town-- I feel it's a reasonably zippy car, and many of us are familiar with how well it handles. That said, I honestly don't like the engine for all the reasons outlined above. I'll be glad to see it retired-- Good riddance. It should have been done 5 years ago.
Sorry that article pissed you off, JoeT. I've long made known my stance when it comes to the FS-DE; I think it sucks.
I've never been a racer/ricer by any means-- I'm just an average fellow who can appreciate a powerful engine, but generally doesn't drive that fast, anyway, and more appreciate efficiency, quiet operation, and reliability. The current engine in the Protege only delivers ONE desirable characteristic: Reliability.
Aside from that, this engine is a raucous, irritating, comparatively primitive and inefficient design. It's got an outdated, heavy-*** iron block (compared to offerings from other mainstream Japanese auto makers) and no variable valve timing whatsoever. I've always been offended that Mazda has been satisfied keeping it in the Protege when this car deserves so much better, as do the people who have supported Mazda by buying their products.
And for all you naysayers who are going to get all pissy because I'm ripping on the FS-DE, you should consider that there's a reason this engine will be dropped by Mazda when the next generation Protege/Mazda3 comes out, and it's not because they're simply bored of it: This engine can't compete against those engines offered by, for instance, Toyota, Honda, or Nissan. The FS-DE is noisier, less efficient, and heavier than it should be, especially given that, for Christ sake, we're in the 21st Century, dammit. Consider the engine in the current generation Corolla-- It's a 1.8 liter that delivers the same horsepower as the Protege yet delivers 40 MPG on the highway. I'm not saying the Corolla is the ultimate car, but put THAT engine in the Protege and I'd be happy. THAT'S what the Protege should be delivering, but isn't. Why? Because nearly everyone else has moved on to better engines while Mazda hasn't. It's a simple as that.
Every time I fire up my Protege in the morning I can't say I enjoy listening to the sounds of a diesel engine-- And that's what it sounds like, you all know it: That VTCS rattle. I find it embarrassing, personally. Even after warming up the engine is always noisy.
I actually still enjoy driving the Protege around town-- I feel it's a reasonably zippy car, and many of us are familiar with how well it handles. That said, I honestly don't like the engine for all the reasons outlined above. I'll be glad to see it retired-- Good riddance. It should have been done 5 years ago.
April-14th-2003, 03:24 PM
#54
Guest
Posts: n/a
it's really simple
The Protege, Civic, Corolla,Matrix, Lancer... there all economy cars, there made for the everyday person with the average household income or above... that is why they don't have a ton of horsepower , like the honda si , mazdaspeed protege, or acura GSR and Type S .... Theses high speed cars step over the economy line and dwindle into the land of burning gas. and screaching tires w/bigger rims and sticky tires.
Stop complaining , do something about it ... If you want your FS to be quiter , then get some sound insulation , insulate the hood and firewall , ... I am pretty sure if you wanted a quite car you would have bought one for that reason....
Secondly , If you want to make your motor faster, well then get boost or nos... to be honest , I personally don't think the FS can handle boost like the earlier motors , but every motor has it's limits and variables, and if you stay within the variables while maintaining the stock internals you will be fine.. or else you will be another poster in the forced/ind section of this forum talking about you threw a rod....
YOU CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE SPEED..
look into it guys before you complain
Bruce
Stop complaining , do something about it ... If you want your FS to be quiter , then get some sound insulation , insulate the hood and firewall , ... I am pretty sure if you wanted a quite car you would have bought one for that reason....
Secondly , If you want to make your motor faster, well then get boost or nos... to be honest , I personally don't think the FS can handle boost like the earlier motors , but every motor has it's limits and variables, and if you stay within the variables while maintaining the stock internals you will be fine.. or else you will be another poster in the forced/ind section of this forum talking about you threw a rod....
YOU CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE SPEED..
look into it guys before you complain
Bruce
April-15th-2003, 01:21 AM
#56
Protege Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 405
yesterday i was sitting at the light with a Lexus GS400 behind me
and took off at wot from the line with a perfect launch. decent
but not too much wheelspin. the Lexus managed to pull up next
to me while I quickly shifted into 2nd, then pass me and still
gained acceleration on me while I pretty much power
shifted into 3rd. hahaha, it has been a while since i got beaten
by a GS400....the difference, i was not in my modded WRX.
hahaha.
its funny how on the protege5 how i sometimes
ask myself if the motor is ever going to get to redline. hahaha.
i dont plan on getting nos or any forced induction on the protege5. its a great car for wat its worth. i enjoy driving it
around.
and took off at wot from the line with a perfect launch. decent
but not too much wheelspin. the Lexus managed to pull up next
to me while I quickly shifted into 2nd, then pass me and still
gained acceleration on me while I pretty much power
shifted into 3rd. hahaha, it has been a while since i got beaten
by a GS400....the difference, i was not in my modded WRX.
hahaha.
its funny how on the protege5 how i sometimesask myself if the motor is ever going to get to redline. hahaha.
i dont plan on getting nos or any forced induction on the protege5. its a great car for wat its worth. i enjoy driving it
around.
April-15th-2003, 08:06 AM
#57
Get in my belly!!!
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: FL
Posts: 362
And everyone wonders why these trannies dont last very long.
Originally posted by kenchan
yesterday i was sitting at the light with a Lexus GS400 behind me
and took off at wot from the line with a perfect launch. decent
but not too much wheelspin. the Lexus managed to pull up next
to me while I quickly shifted into 2nd, then pass me and still
gained acceleration on me while I pretty much power
shifted into 3rd. hahaha, it has been a while since i got beaten
by a GS400....the difference, i was not in my modded WRX.
hahaha. its funny how on the protege5 how i sometimes
ask myself if the motor is ever going to get to redline. hahaha.
i dont plan on getting nos or any forced induction on the protege5. its a great car for wat its worth. i enjoy driving it
around.
yesterday i was sitting at the light with a Lexus GS400 behind me
and took off at wot from the line with a perfect launch. decent
but not too much wheelspin. the Lexus managed to pull up next
to me while I quickly shifted into 2nd, then pass me and still
gained acceleration on me while I pretty much power
shifted into 3rd. hahaha, it has been a while since i got beaten
by a GS400....the difference, i was not in my modded WRX.
hahaha.
its funny how on the protege5 how i sometimesask myself if the motor is ever going to get to redline. hahaha.
i dont plan on getting nos or any forced induction on the protege5. its a great car for wat its worth. i enjoy driving it
around.
April-15th-2003, 10:02 AM
#58
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 97
had a close encounter with a 350z the other day
im driving down a 3lane road on the right side (since it always seems to be empty here) doing about 90km, coming up to an intersection i see a 350 z making a right turn off the intersecting street into my lane, now this dick should have waited for me to go by as i was just entering the intersection. so instead of slowing down right away i pulled up right behind his *** to see if he would step on it, well, all i have to say is that i dont think i'll ever be that close behind a 350z again
, i just saw him look in his rear view mirror and he took off!! i was doing about 50km after slowing down behind him, i dropped into 2nd by the time i could hit 3rd he was so far its not even funny
im driving down a 3lane road on the right side (since it always seems to be empty here) doing about 90km, coming up to an intersection i see a 350 z making a right turn off the intersecting street into my lane, now this dick should have waited for me to go by as i was just entering the intersection. so instead of slowing down right away i pulled up right behind his *** to see if he would step on it, well, all i have to say is that i dont think i'll ever be that close behind a 350z again
, i just saw him look in his rear view mirror and he took off!! i was doing about 50km after slowing down behind him, i dropped into 2nd by the time i could hit 3rd he was so far its not even funny
April-15th-2003, 11:27 AM
#59
Protege Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 405
yah...so no more hopes. no more launches as it doesn't
make any sense to challenge anyone with this car.
hahahaha. but again, its a fun car to drive and
i enjoy it a lot. infact, i take it out more often than my
WRX as the MT is so user friendly and smooth.
make any sense to challenge anyone with this car.
hahahaha.
but again, its a fun car to drive andi enjoy it a lot. infact, i take it out more often than my
WRX as the MT is so user friendly and smooth.
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