Defense against Honda bashing.
April-24th-2002, 06:23 PM
#1
WiCky=))
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 883
Defense against Honda bashing.
I have alot of spare time lately and surf the net more often. I noticed that many people on the net bash imports or more specifically Hondas. I am not a riceboy, or do I know any, but I wish to defend not riceboys but Hondas that have been closely associated with them. The reason for all this Honda bashing has been obviously riceboys and I hate them myself.
The first attack on Honda's are that they make no power at lower revs. This is not true for all Hondas since there are many different versions of VTEC, such as VTEC, i-VTEC, DOHC VTEC and some others one I don't remember.
The VTEC on most Civic and Accords are mostly used to make the power of the engine more usually throughout the rev range instead of pushing power higher up. As a result a car without this technology will use the same cam throughout the engines rev range, decreasing effiency and also reducing the amount of usuable power availbal throughout the rev range. In other words, less power lower in the lower revs, than in car so equiped.
The DOHC VTEC systems on more performance orientated Hondas such as the ITR, CTR, Civic Si, etc are also attacked for their lack of low end power. While this is true, it should be noted that the engines rev quickly into their powerbands, with the assistance of a lightweight driveshaft, hollow cams, lightened flywheels, so any loss in low end torque is neglible. Owners of large engined, low and slow revving cars, tend to criticize that Honda's make power too high up, and are slow to get into the power band, because they are saying this in the context on the characteristics of their cars.
In addition, the more rev happy the engine, the greater the feeling and excitement for the car enthuists since the engine performs most like race cars. This is a generalization, but I think it is rational enough to be generally accepted.
Another criticism of Hondas, are that they produce no torque. Statements like "Hondas are torqueless", " What you need is torque, Honda has none" float around the internet. These statements should be dismissed since they are untrue. Many people think that Honda's in their pursuit of high hp in their engines, sacrifice a great deal of engine torque, this is also untrue.
What must be noted of high performance Honda engines is that not only do they sqeeze alot of hp from a small displacement engine, but also gobs of torque. The ITR 1.8L makes 130lb/ft, and the RSX-S 2L makes 142lb/ft, the S2000 2L makes 152lb/hp, the Prelude 2.2L makes 156lb/ft, all of which are impressive figures for engines their size. The Cavalier 2.2L makes 135lb/ft. True, they still lack torque compared to bigger engines, but the efficiency of these four bangers must be appreciated.
And to counter the argument that the engine's power is not EASILY accessible. I would like to say that these four bangers rev much more quickly, smoothly and quietly up to their powerband than American four bangers.
Just my 2 cents.
The first attack on Honda's are that they make no power at lower revs. This is not true for all Hondas since there are many different versions of VTEC, such as VTEC, i-VTEC, DOHC VTEC and some others one I don't remember.
The VTEC on most Civic and Accords are mostly used to make the power of the engine more usually throughout the rev range instead of pushing power higher up. As a result a car without this technology will use the same cam throughout the engines rev range, decreasing effiency and also reducing the amount of usuable power availbal throughout the rev range. In other words, less power lower in the lower revs, than in car so equiped.
The DOHC VTEC systems on more performance orientated Hondas such as the ITR, CTR, Civic Si, etc are also attacked for their lack of low end power. While this is true, it should be noted that the engines rev quickly into their powerbands, with the assistance of a lightweight driveshaft, hollow cams, lightened flywheels, so any loss in low end torque is neglible. Owners of large engined, low and slow revving cars, tend to criticize that Honda's make power too high up, and are slow to get into the power band, because they are saying this in the context on the characteristics of their cars.
In addition, the more rev happy the engine, the greater the feeling and excitement for the car enthuists since the engine performs most like race cars. This is a generalization, but I think it is rational enough to be generally accepted.
Another criticism of Hondas, are that they produce no torque. Statements like "Hondas are torqueless", " What you need is torque, Honda has none" float around the internet. These statements should be dismissed since they are untrue. Many people think that Honda's in their pursuit of high hp in their engines, sacrifice a great deal of engine torque, this is also untrue.
What must be noted of high performance Honda engines is that not only do they sqeeze alot of hp from a small displacement engine, but also gobs of torque. The ITR 1.8L makes 130lb/ft, and the RSX-S 2L makes 142lb/ft, the S2000 2L makes 152lb/hp, the Prelude 2.2L makes 156lb/ft, all of which are impressive figures for engines their size. The Cavalier 2.2L makes 135lb/ft. True, they still lack torque compared to bigger engines, but the efficiency of these four bangers must be appreciated.
And to counter the argument that the engine's power is not EASILY accessible. I would like to say that these four bangers rev much more quickly, smoothly and quietly up to their powerband than American four bangers.
Just my 2 cents.
.....
April-24th-2002, 06:47 PM
#4
Use this to install stuff
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: State College, PA
Posts: 1,069
I agree with you on Honda's engines being better than American's designs for the most part.
the V-tec engines don't make any less torque than other engines in their displacement class. A mazda ZM-DE 1.6L dohc engine makes 106 ft/lbs of torque. A honda B16(A or B, I forget as usual) 1.6L dohc engine creates about 110 ft/lbs of torque with a about 55 more hp. Its just a lot of times a V-tec car has less torque than the other cars it competes against. (Honda S2000 vs. Porsche Boxter S)
the V-tec engines don't make any less torque than other engines in their displacement class. A mazda ZM-DE 1.6L dohc engine makes 106 ft/lbs of torque. A honda B16(A or B, I forget as usual) 1.6L dohc engine creates about 110 ft/lbs of torque with a about 55 more hp. Its just a lot of times a V-tec car has less torque than the other cars it competes against. (Honda S2000 vs. Porsche Boxter S)
April-24th-2002, 09:47 PM
#8
Protege Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 63
Maybe the ricers only learned one thing in there life, and that is that Hondas are reliable.
i guess they seemed to miss things like......mufflers dragging the ground are really dumb looking, and altezza's that are loose and hanging out an inch from the body is ghetto.
heh heh
i guess they seemed to miss things like......mufflers dragging the ground are really dumb looking, and altezza's that are loose and hanging out an inch from the body is ghetto.
heh heh
April-25th-2002, 07:51 AM
#9
Oil Change Enthusiast
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Norwood, MA
Posts: 1,587
I have got only one thing to say. Out of all the japanese manufaturers, who was the only one to win THE ultimate, most grueling, 24 hour long race of Le Mans? That would be Mazda and its 787B Prototype, the year 1991.
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