P5 vs Grand Prix
 

Here's a question:

Stock 2002 P5 vs stock 2003 Pontiac Grand Prix GT-something (the new one)

How badly will I get my ass handed to me?

Now, how about if we threw in some corners? Does anyone know of the slolum (how the hell do you spell that?) for our cars vs the Grand Prix?

Thanks

S L A L O M

he'll be about a second faster to 60

EDIT: ... unless you meant GTP (supercharged) which has almost double your horsepower... yea, that wouldn't even be funny.

The drag race would be funny, but not for you.

The slalom would probably be closer, but if the driver of the Grand Prix is any good, you'll lose that too.

Very badly if it's the V6 Model w/ the Dual Exhaust...unless you have a turbo..or a large size shot of n20...like i do :D

Now if it's the 4 cylinder version w/ manual tranny..than it shouldn't kill u but more like beat you by 1-3 carlengths.

I would stay away from that race...

chas

You'd Lose, But Your Car Is Still Better
 

The Grand Prix GT has a 3.8 liter V6-- Sorry, but a stock vehicle on both sides means the Grand Prix wins easily. I can't speak for sure to the cornering abilities, but logic indicates you'd win there-- The Protege is already above average in handling abilities.

Here's what Consumer Reports said about the homely, cheap-ass Pontiac:

"With its heavy steering, stiff suspension, and busy, overly firm ride, the Grand Prix attempts to render a sporty driving experience. Handling is forgiving and secure, but not very agile. The midlevel GT model we tested uses a 200-hp version of GM's 3.8-liter pushrod V6, which provides responsive acceleration but lacks the polish of a contemporary multivalve engine. With its flimsy-feeling appointments and cheap-looking plastic trim, the Grand Prix's cabin has a decidedly low-rent feel. Head room is meager for a sedan, and the rear seat is tight and unsupportive. Wind and road noise are pronounced. Poor side-impact crash test results further limit the Grand Prix's appeal."

This kind of analysis shouldn't come as a surprise from GM-- They specialize in mediocre (at best), cheap quality, dreadful vehicles. It's only because of the ignorant, lemming masses that they continue to dominate the world as the largest corporate entity-- If it was all about quality they would have long ago been thrown out of business.

At least your car is reasonably comfortable, infinately more reliable, efficient, better looking, and responsible.

I wouldn't be racing anyone in a V6, though, regardless of who makes it. The FS-DE just isn't a fast, nor modern, engine.

4-cylinder Grand Prix? Um I suppose you could get one if you swapped out the standard 6-cylinder.

All Grand Prix's are 6-cylinder with auto.

My Mistake...the Grand Am's have the 4 cylinder's...

Chas:p

Re: You'd Lose, But Your Car Is Still Better
 

You'd have a chance against any of Chrysler's 2.5 V6's. 170 hp, but very inefficient automatics. Almost all have 0-60 around 9 seconds.

Beat an auto V6 Cirrus once.

Pro v. Grande' Pricks:
Hahahahahaha
Who cares?

Yeah, I figured I'd get my ass handed to me.

nate0123: Yep, it's the GTP.

Well I figured the P5 is a pretty good handling car so I'm thinking maybe I'd have a chance if we threw in some corners. Anyways, it's not like we were gonna race.

fossil boy: The topic just came up in a discussion today at work.

ProtegeMaster: I feel the same way about Gm cars. I used to drive them until I saw the light.

Thank god u saw the light, i had a dodge neon before i had a head on crash with it i was sick of that car problem after problem the air bags never when off and the engine sucked so bad uhh i hated that car and i was told form dealer to dealer to go sum where else, SCREW AMERICAN CARS i love this country but we don't make cars like others do!

We traded our red '99 Pont Grand Prix GT in for P5 last month. I thought car looked and drove great. But in 86k miles, the tranny was rebuilt, torque converter replaced, ECU replaced 3 times, ABS system repaired, and lifters were starting to click. The GP felt faster but I think the P5 handles better cause it's lighter. Slalom numbers are better for P5 in Motor Trend. I hope Mazda build quality is better as well.

115,000 on my GTP. Despite the high mileage, I still run 13.2s. Headers and PCM reprogramming this spring will hopefully give me a taste of 12s.

Sorry to hear of your troubles arapau. I've only had to replace my alternator. Currently, the sunroof doesn't work, but that was my fault. The sunroof on the P5 broke before it was a year old.

umm well.. i think the mazda6 should be comapred with the GP not the p5 LOL P5 Vs Cavalier is more like it

and on the chrysler note, i would want to race a Shadow/sundance

100HP/135TQ LOL and they weigh 2600+ LBS

As the owner pf both cars, I can say that the GTP would blow away the P5 in a straight ahead race. But in the slalom, the P5 would win. The P5 is a great handling car. The Pontiac has one of the worst suspensions on a car that I have ever experienced. How GM was able to make a car floaty, yet jittery, is a wonder. It handles like a pig around corners. Tires might be part of the problem, but it won't get that much better with different ones.

And the interior appointments are definitely cheap. I'll never buy another until GM gets it's act together. Thank God my wife drives it everyday (she loves it).

Bad Idea in general
 

I think the main point people are saying are that a relativly underpowered 4 cyl will not stand to much of a chance against most 3L and up 6 cyl. Depending on how crappy the V6 engine is or the auto tranny, you might beat a few cars out there but who really cares if you can beat a Taurus or an Oldsmobile. How many people do you think buy a Taurus so they can drag race it!

Straight line performance is so over rated! My GMC Savannah work van with it's 5.7 V8 hauling around 5000lbs will roast my Protege in a straight line but I still prefer driving my Protege.

There are not alot of drag races that our beloved Protege will come out on top unfortunatly. Civic, Elantra, Corolla, SE-R, Neon, and probably even Cav/Sunfire are all faster in a straight line. Who gives a rats ass!

you may have to wait for new mazda3 and it's 2.3l to smoke that GTP ,in handling and straight line as well.
GTP is a terrible handling car. P5 handles very well.
2.0 liter in P5 is a old lazy dog, it's noisy, harsh and offers poor fuel economy, it's by far the weakest part of overall very good P5.

STRAIGHT POOP
 

heres the straight poop

i have both a GTP and a MP5. The GTP will absolutley destroy a protege in any speed match, it'll peel out for the first 30yds. BUT....in the twisties, a MP5 will win. My GTP will do under 7 in a 0-60. My MP5 will do about 8, with intake exhaust ets etc. You'll need turbo, exhaust, tires etc etc if you ever think youll take a GTP. It's (GTP) probably one of the most underrated cars as far as speed and power. But, I'm selling the GTP...too expensive. Now you know.

Dont dog that 3.8L gm engine, it is an absolute bullit proof engine that has been around GM for EVER. I just hope my 2.0 mazda tin can will be as reliable as those GM engines........

First of all I didn't see anyone "dogging" the 3.8 engine. We all agreed that, due to that engine, it would be near impossible to beat one stock-to-stock.

Hmm, let's find out. :mach: :mach: :mach: :mach:

Therein lies the problem. It's ancient technology that lacks refinement.

:bonk:

on the V6 note, my stock MP3 has taken many V6 mustangs. now for a GT mustang ummm lets not talk about that :)

Why does everyone always say how slow a P5 or ES is???? They are competitive in the compact segment. It isn't the slowest and its not the fastest. In numerous tests the Protege comes out on top for its acceptable acceleration for the class, and it unbelievable handling for the class...(This was only said for a latter post, about Civics, Corrollas, etc.etc. being faster)

So who fucking cares about a Pontiac, its not even in a similar class. If this was a WRX forum, we would all be laughing at a stupid sub 7 sec. Pontiac. Its not "amazingly fast", its a typical American car with too much power for its suspension and chassis.

:bt: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I had a 1998 Pontiac Grand Prix GT, it would blow the doors off of a STOCK Protege/MP3/Protege5. The Mazdaspeed could probably give it a run for it's money. As far as handling, the Grand Prix is fast but has body roll in corners out the azz. I used to race Corvettes and Firebirds in it. Also it runs a 15.9 second 1/4 mile (I can show timeslips if needed) and that is bone stock with and automatic. Anyway just thought I would throw in my $.02.

Corvettes and Firebirds?????

Also if you ran a 15.9 1/4 mile, you would not "blow the doors off of a Protege/MP3/5". There have been guys on this forum that have achieved sub 16sec .25miles stock Protege's (the dude I recall did it in a P5). Find a 3rd gen with a good driver and he will be right beside you the whole way....

Maybe Corvettes up through the early 80s and V6 firebirds...

I don't have the car anymore, traded it for my 2 Protege5's, yes I bought 2 of them. By the way, I said I raced them, not that I beat them. The Corvette I raced was a new one, bright yellow, and the Grand Prix kept up with him until he shifted into 4th gear and then he was gone. The Firebird was a New Trans Am (V8) and I beat him by a bumper. I have also owned a 1992 Honda Prelude Si, 2.3L 4cyl (non-vtec), and that one ran on my best run, a 16.1 sec 1/4 mile and it has 40 less hp than a Grand Prix. Grand Prix GT: 200Hp, Prelude SI: 160Hp. I know the Proteges can be tuned to run into the 14's and 15's, heck the stock Mazdaspeed can run a 14.9s with a good driver. I love my Mazdas more than any car I have ever owned. I am just saying that the stock MP5 is 100hp and 108tq at the wheel (rated at 130 at the crank). You can check out http://www.flyinmiata.com/protege/tech/dyno.asp for the actual dyno sheets. Don't flame me guys please I am just telling you my experiance, sorry if I made anybody mad. When I take my MP5 down to Firebird Int'l Raceway to do some runs I will know how the MP5 compares to the other 2 cars I have run down there.

Pointing out that this is completely wrong is not flaming, sorry if it sounds that way. There is no way that your Pontiac hung with a vette "until" he shifted to 4th. C5 do 0-60 in less than 5 sec. and your Pontiac does not. By the time he shifted to 3rd he would be approaching (or over, not sure of the ratios) 75mph, during which your and your GT would not be seen. Same for the firebird, he would of roasted you as well.

I am not trying to be an asshole, I am only saying that maybe these sports car owners were not racing at all. Not many of these type of people drive around looking for mid sized sedans and coupes to race (although maybe the Firebird dude would). If the vette started in 3rd gear it might have been close, like you said, until he hit 4th. Otherwise this info is false...

That would make the situation a little more believable...

Maybe it was when he shifted into 3rd that he took off. I don't really remember because it was a while back. And the guy almost dropped his tranny in 1st and 2nd. His car was lurching like no other. I believe I was at about 45-50 when he took off. I gave chase and ran my Grand Prix up to about 90mph and he was still pulling away from me. The guy in the firebird was cool, the only reason I beat him was because the light turned red and we had to stop. He looked over to me and said, "Nice!." I turned and he took off in a cloud of tire smoke. Both of these guys looked like they were in their 30's at the most. Anyway this really doesn't matter at all. I was just trying to say that it was that fast. I will tell you that in Phoenix around where I live there are a lot of rich punks who drive fancy sports cars and act like punks. You can have all the power and speed in the world and if you don't know how to drive you will not run the car "0-60 in less than 5 sec". Anyway, the Grand Prix is an Ok car but the proteges are way better in all respects. I may be "completely wrong" in ideal conditions which I admit those two cars could eat a Grand Prix for breakfast with the right driver. Specs don't mean a lot in the real world under real conditions.

This entire thread is about a Grand Prix vs. a P5. A Grand Prix is not a fast car, and neither is a protege. You said the guy with the Vette couldn't drive, so he drives a very fast car poorly, resulting in getting beat by a Pontiac Grand Prix...

I am not trying to say that your other car sucked, only that if a Grand Prix sprints around a 15.9 1/4 mile, it is not too far out of a decent P5 driver's league

That is exactly what I think. I just didn't express it very well.

WARNING: Long post
 

Wow, I thought this thread died.

Back when my only mods were a smaller supercharger pulley and an intake (similar to Short Ram), my wife raced a C5 on the street. After getting smoked off the line and unable to catch up, they were embarrassed and quickly turned off. A Jeep tried to keep up with them. . . once they caught up they gave her a big thumbs-up. Whenever I run C5s in the 1/4 (since I don't race on the street), I take them the first half and then they start to catch up and occasionally pass.

Back to GP vs. P5. . . I own both and thoroughly enjoy both. They are completely different cars, hence no need to compare the two. No need to bash either. I usually try not to bash other vehicles. Personally, I prefer to try to obtain an understanding of what enthusiasts of those other vehicles enjoy about their rides.
On that note, I'll go into length on the things I appreciate in the Grand Prix.

Styling - the #1 reason I bought my Grand Prix. Its muscular lines are reminisant of late 60's muscle cars.

Engine - For several years in a row, the GM supercharged series II 3.8L was listed on Ward's 10 best engines list. It’s ancient, but highly effective. The 240HP is nice, but the torque (280 ft-lbs) is what makes it stand out. Ample torque is available right where you spend most of your time. With only a pulley swap, intake, and cat-back I was able to pull a 13.8 in the 1/4. How cool is that? For just $2500 (retail price) in bolt-on parts you can easily get it into the 12s.

Features - trip computer, Heads-up display, intermittent wipers, heated seat, 6-way power seat, and auto-dimmer rear-view mirror. Just some of the features I enjoy. Although, I wish the dual climate control was available at the time I purchased mine.

Believe it or not, the Grand Prix is targeted for the over 40 crowd. Hence the cushy suspension. It's also a rather large mid-sized car. Consequently, it's weight is another factor affecting it's handling ability. How many mid-sized vehicles under $30,000 handle better? The chassis is sound. At the time of the current gen's release, it was one of the stiffest chassis in its class. Since several police stations have Chevy Impalas and the Impala is a W-body, heftier sway bars are available at a fairly low price, <$80. For a mere $8, strut tower braces from the Buick Regal can easily be mounted in the front and rear. Finally, GM Performance parts now have a spring/strut package. The G-Force, concept vehicle for the 2004 model year was able to pull .9 G's on the skid pad. The main difference between the G-Force's suspension and the production vehicle is the rubber mounted on 19" wheels. Yes, the suspension is sloppy. . . it was designed that way. For a few $ it is easily fixed.

The online community is pretty cool, too. There is a national annual gathering and there are several region clubs. Several people from the online community created businesses catering to our needs in order to overcome the problem with the lack of aftermarket parts. Now there's even a company that specializes in reprogramming PCM's for the Grand Prix, Digital Horsepower (DHP). Hypertech, JET, Superchip. . . no one would touch us, at least the Protegé community has JET already working for them. A guy that got together with others from the message board and figured out how to reprogram our computers founded DHP.

You're telling me GNO. I started this thread to throw a question on the table and now look where it got me. ;)

Thanks everyone for your input this has been enjoyable.

Shane

You'll get your ass handed to you pretty bad! Totally different class.

dude, my old 93gp would've kicked many a p5's @ss, but how often did i ever race a straight strip...? (hardly ever) but around my town there are lots of windy roads and my p5 (which i used my gp as a trade in for) will kill (KILL) ANY gp...

but i don't race anymore, so all the above is just useless info. :)

man, i got an 03 ProES stick and a 99 Grand Prix GT. not only would the prix destroy the pro in the twisties and straightaways, but that thing's got a reliable-ass engine! after 50,000 miles, its still goin strong. dont yall bust on those pushrods cuz they're a lot better than anything mazda makes....except the rotaries.

now if we were talking build quality...well thats a different story...

Oh my god man what is wrong with you...

A Grand Prix that has 50,000 miles and is still going strong is excellent for Pontiac. A Protege that is still going strong at 50,000 miles is expected...Get back to us on this assesment at 150,000 miles. You obviously are very knowledgeble about Mazda's engines too, so I believe you that when GM designed a brigade of mediocre pushrod OHV engine's a couple of decades ago, they would hold competition with some of Japan's most reliable economy and mid-sized car engines years later...



I will not argue with you about the handling of a 99 Pontiac Grand Prix. That would be beating a dead horse as this thread has been for the better part of this year...

yeah i know 50k miles isnt much to get excited about in terms of reliability but i mean the whole car has made no probs...except that retarded ass cd player....

but anyways, im impressed by how well that pushrod hauls the 3800 pound car! and chew on this, the damn thing generates 225 lbs/ft torque!! thats more than any japanese V6 made in '99. furthermore, it gets good mileage! FROM A 3.8L engine! if you want proof that it is a great engine, check out wards.com...they've had it on their 10 best engines before.

as for mazda, well they did awesome with the handling, but the engine is reliable...thats the only praise i can give it. and its got some nice torque output too!! so wat the hell happened? why can a VTEC whomp it?!? cuz its old technology...

mazda's gettin right now with the 6's inline 4 engine...now if only i could pop that in my car...

You ready for it?
:bsflag:

99 Mitsubishi Diamante - 3.5 V6 - 230 lb/ft
99 Mitsubishi Montero - 3.5 V6 - 228 lb/ft
99 Acura SLX - 3.5 V6 - 230 lb/ft
99 Honda Odyssey - 3.5 V6 - 229 lb/ft
99 Mazda B4000 - 4.0 V6 - 225 lb/ft