OZProtege

In my opinion, the ONLY reason to go with the Honda would be resale value. I was initially looking at buying an EX and the prices only dropped about $500 bucks per year.

As far as value goes, LX 2.0 and the ES are even better than the P5, but they are all great versions of the same excellent car. The Proteges look better both inside and out when compared to the Civics and the reliability is about the same from what I read. Go with the Protege.

kc5zom

I thought it was without the 'H' but I was not sure. Actually it is the HX that comes with the lean burn setup. The EX (United States again here) comes with a standard setup.

onehawaiian

kenji, here are more options:

-kia (10yr standard warranty)
-ford lightning (14mi/gallon! woohoo!)
-honda's hybrid (it's ugly, but with great gas mileage, potential @ss-kickers would run out of gas b4 catching up to you.)
-daewoo (wtf???)

dude, buy a car already!!! (prefearbly the p5...)

HubbMP5

WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING? If I recall the test numbers correctly, the Si runs 0-60 in the low 8's (8.2 I think). The EX is more in the mid 9's- as the stock EX has always been. The most recent 0-60 I saw on the P5 was 8.8 in this month's Road & Track.

Here's the real Specs:

Civic EX:
1.6 Litre SOHC
127hp @ 6300 RPM
114lb/ft @ 4800 RPM
2555lbs

Pro5
2.0 Litre DOHC
130hp @ 6000 RPM
135lb/ft @ 4000 RPM
2716lbs

Were takling only 160lbs different, as well as better hp and torque #'s at LOWER RPM's. Just too bad Mazda didn't include variable lift/timing on the FS engine, those #'s would look even better.

kc5zom

Motortrend or Car and Driver (whoever has the TV show on TNT) did a 9.5 in the Protege. I have seen it a couple of other places too. And I read an article on Edmunds that said 7.9 for the EX. I don't really worry about the Honda's but they are faster. An EX with automatic can beat our cars. And remember that there is a more significant weight difference between the P5 and the coupe EX. I was not talking about the sedan. Edmunds still has that article posted. I haven't checked Motortrend or anything but the article also says the LX made 0-60 in 8.4 seconds. And if the Si can't beat 8 then it has no business running in the circle they targeted it at. Autoweek got it at 7.23 seconds. And The Man should probably check Honda's website. There is an HX with a VTEC-E lean burn engine. It is made in coupe form only. Available with a CVT or 5-speed. I have seen one with my own eyes. It exists. Thought about buying one until I found out how much dealer installed A/C was. And if you check Honda's specs you might find that they list VTEC as the system used in the EX. Not VTEC-E. The VTEC-E makes 117HP. Regular VTEC makes 127.

kc5zom

Ok. I took some time and went and looked. I checked the following sites:

Autoweek
Road and Track
Car and Driver
Motortrend

I searched for the Civic EX and the Protege ES/5. I found the review on Edmund's where they said a 0-60 of 7.9 and 8.4 for the Civic. I also found a review on Motortrend saying the Civic got a 9.0 0-60. For reference I found a review of a Focus with a 9.14 0-60 (Autoweek) time and on Motortrend they had it at around 9. There aren't a lot of reviews out for either of these cars but Consumer Guide said a 9.8 0-60 for the Protege and a 9.4 for the Civic. I'm guessing Edmund's is probably wrong but at least I took the time to look something up and I will admit that number is probably wrong. And the Si definitely runs sub 8. Every review I saw had it pinned below that number. However the thought that a P5 could break 9 when a Focus ZX3 could not is absurd. I would love to see that article. They must have tied rocket boosters to the back or something. But I will restate that those damn Civics are frickin fast when compared to our cars. They just ride like sh@t.

HubbMP5

Actually, buddy, the numbers I quoted were DIRECTLY off Honda's website and they were for the COUPE- NOT THE SEDAN. For the Protege5's #'s, I referenced the May 2002 issue of Motor Trend.. 0-60 in 8.82sec. Now, to be fair and consistent, that same issue's test data charts in the back have the Si pulling 0-60 in 7.6sec and the EX in 9.0sec. I've driven EX Civics MANY MANY times... they're far overated. That why I drive a Pro5, not a civic. Truth be known, they are not "fricken fast when compared to our cars". Furthermore, I have NEVER lost ANY race to a Civic other than an Si- even modded EX's- I win every time. Every magazine gets different numbers, but its the real world that counts. If you're losing races to AUTOMATIC EX's, then you are nothing short of a disgrace. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

kc5zom

Well HubbMP5 I am glad you have driven the Civic EX so many times. When I was looking for my car I was loaned 3 different vehicles for a weekend from the dealerships. A Civic EX, Lancer ES, and a Protege5. Out of all of those the Civic EX (and it was an automatic) was able to merge onto the freeway most effectively. It was without a doubt faster than the Protege5 and my ES. The Lancer was the worst (the automatic in that is one of the fuzzy logic ones I think and it never really seemed to work right). The Protege5, which was a manual, was around there in the middle. All of them were aptly enabled with power but the Protege5 was more fun to drive. The Protege5 was loaned to me while I was waiting for my ES to be delivered and I ragged on it pretty hard. As to whether I am losing to EX with automatics or not I never said I was. I don't drag race. Especially on the street. Seems I got a little old for it. But if you come down to Houston I might make an exception.

kc5zom

Oh. And just so I don't hear any crap the 1983 F150 you see in my signature down there has been modified for drag racing. So I do have some experience there. Guess what? Its an automatic too. I used to go out on the weekends and eat modified Civics for breakfast. Just never could catch those damn Stangs.

HubbMP5

Thats terriffic that your F150 is fast. Congratulations. I think maybe I see why a Civic might SEEM faster to you- VTEC. That rush of acceleration you get in the upper rev band on VTEC equipped cars certainly is fun- almost like a low pressure turbo- so, in that regard, they can SEEM quick. It seems so many manufacturers are offering variable timing systems on their cars these days- its the best high tech, reliable way to milk an engine for all its worth without resorting to forced induction. It really is a shame that Mazda doesn't offer this on the Protege line, we'd probably have a baseline of 160hp if they did. But in the end, there is no replacement for displacement, and the Protege has the edge in this area. Now, I'll concede that there really isn't a whole hellua lot of difference between the acceleration of the P5 and a Civie EX, they're on a pretty level playing field actually (again though, SLIGHT egde for the P5/ES/LX2.0 protege). Just don't go around saying 'Civic's are so much faster'. Without justification, it slams the reputation and brand support we are so desperately trying to build. Back to the thread, the Protege will outhandle, out-brake, and accelerate neck & neck with the EX... and look better while doing it. Add to this arguably better standard features with a similar price, and the choice is simple. Don't get me wrong, the Civic is a damn good car- it always has been- but the Protege is more the "driver's car". If you drive both vehicles and are initially dissappointed with the Protege's "go-power", bear in mind that the car will get NOTICABLY faster once the engine is broken in (example: with 3500mi on the odometer, I lost a race to a V6 Grand Cherokee Laredo- in the last month, with 14000mi on the odometer, I've beaten 2 V6 Mustangs).

If you're worried about reliability- I'll add my story to the list. My mother has a '95 protege LX that she bought brand new in 5/95. To this day, all it has ever needed was brake pads, a new battery, and one tailight bulb. On top of that, I used to beat the **** out of that car on a regular basis. Needless to say, it has been BEYOND reliable.

kc5zom

You keep saying a slight edge but all of the reviews I have seen in the past (Edmunds, Car and Driver, Consumer Guide) pin the Civic as the faster car. And when I borrow these cars I have a small test I do. Kind of like a butt dyno but a little bit more precise. I know a pretty good place (not a lot of traffic) where on the weekends I can run a quick drag point to point. I don't time it but I do look at the speedometer when I hit the point. I had the Civic up at 65, the Protege at 63 (the only manual), and the Lancer was only able to hit 60. Now I think myself a pretty damn good shifter and I have been at it for awhile, plus the fact it wasn't my car so I drove the sh@t out of it. I ran the Protege for 3 runs because I could not figure out why it would be slower than the Civic. I shifted at or right before redline. The Civic was the superior car. Once again I agree that the Protege was the better driver. It was more fun, had a better suspension, a better braking system (although I'm not sure on the numbers, I may look them up later), and the better interior and features (who wants a damn moonroof). I just get sick and tired of people who assume because its a Honda it must suck because I bought a Protege. Each car has their strengths. Just the Civic was built for the Phi Delts and the Protege for a driving enthusiast. By the way, the manual on the Civic is far superior to that on the Protege. The shifts are much more crisp. No car is the best at everything. That is why we have "choices".

PS - Yes I am aware of how VTEC feels. It gives a nice little whoosh when you hit a certain RPM.

jcilforever

Kenji
Have you finally bought a car?

HubbMP5

Man would you just take the little bit of slack I'm trying to cut you and chill out? There's empirical data to back either opinion, both real world and literary. Neither car is a drag stip demon & those couple tenths of a second shouldn't be enough to sway a purchase decision. The only reason I was aggrevated in the the first place was the claim of stock EX's running 0-60 sub 8sec... which is complete bullsh*t. Perhaps a Civic will outrun a Pro every time, given the right circumstancs, but the surely will NOT run 0-60 in less than 8 sec.

kenji4861

Came back from School to my city and got to test drive a Civic EX today. I'm not sure if the engine was loud because I stepped on the peddle, but the engine seemed really loud.

Comparing the ride with a Protege5, the Protege5 seemed to be a little bit more soft bouncier than the Civic. On the Civic, I can feel everything on the ground.

I thought the interior speed gauge was going to look better than what I thought.

Overall, the Civic.. the EX in blue looks GREAT! Interior looks pretty modern and calm too. I loved it, until I drove it. I remember the Protege5 being a bit smoother and the steering wheel I just didn't like.

I'm gonna go test drive the Protege5 once more tomorrow, if I like it, I'm gonna get it.. either when the Sports Shift Automatic is released at my area (CA bay area) or when the rattling problem ends..

If I don't like it, I guess it's boring and old *** feeling, but might go with Camry's $3000 off MSRP deal here at my Toyota. Yea, it looks old *** mama's car, but the Camry is roomy as hell and drives nice and I can totally relax in it.

Hopefully I'll like how the Protege5 drives tomorrow. Thanks guys! Looks wise, the Protege5 KICKS ***!

onehawaiian

cool kenji! i wanna know what this rattling is? seems to be prominent and a big deal to a lot of p5 owners, but i don't have that problem.

good luck on your buy!