kc5zom

I don't know where you heard that from. The fix issupposed to just fix the issue with the VTCS system in the first place, which was a code bug to begin with. Not disable it. Be kind of stupid for Mazda to disable something mechanical already installed on the car when the issue was the ECU programming to begin with.

All changes that effect a vehicles emissions system require approval by the EPA. It is almost impossible to get approval from the EPA to do anything that would actually worsen emissions, the rule is equal to or better (or leave it the frick alone). That is why Mazda was taking so long to release the update.

Guido

Thus the problem has not been eliminated completely by reprogramming. It would appear to only reduce the amount of cold start run time that it is active.

The problem is that the actuater is only vacuum linear and the PCM control output would be on or off with no inbetween.

Programming cannot alter the degree of it being on, such as 25%, 50%, 75% etc.

So when active it will still rattle against the plate stops in the manifold.

If the VTCS had an electric feed back driven actuator then the programming could eliminate the problem completely.

It would be able to hold the restrictor plates at say 5% off the stops, it would also have a feed back voltage to the powertrain control module so it knows where it's at. It would also have a desired and actual reading if you had scan tool data.

Our cars do not have that ability.

G.

Carlos

A previous poster who reported getting the new fix said he got a a reflash of the ECU and a "valve" replacement. The TSB states that the noise occurs during "valve closed" operation. It seems the valve is another name for the plates or butterflies actually causing the swirl in the air, which some people say causes the vibrating of the plates. So it seems that the valve itself may have been replaced, (maybe redisgned?) to help in eliminating the noise.

So if we assume that the "valve" is the actual butterfly plates that were replaced, one has to ask why would Mazda then deactivate or reduce the amount of running time of the VTCS after putting a new valve in. My *guess* is that the valve replacement is to address any physical vibration issues, and the ECU reflash is to maybe address fuel metering or timing issues.

I admit this is a guess (especially the fuel metering/timing part), but it just seems like part of the noise cant just be physical vibration. I mean, for the plates to vibrate to make that much noise they would just have to be completely loose in the manifold. The noise really does sound like knocking (light detonation). I know Mazda says in the TSB is "the result of the intentional swirl" caused by the plates, but that's some pretty weird sounding "swirling" air. Maybe they meant to say its the sound the swirling air makes after it detonates in the cylinder

I don't know, I'm just talking out loud in this post I guess, but it seems like Mazda may be attacking this problem in two ways, because it may be a problem with both the physical aspects of the plate(valve) design, and programming issues.

My two cents

Guido

Valid point Carlos,

I had thought the same thing because it sounded so much like engine knock. I realized it was only the butterfly valves when I disconnected the VTCS actuator.

The next morning the noise was gone and still is, so not an engine knock, which is good.

If Mazda is replacing the actuator as part of a product service bulletin then I will take my car in for the update. Untill now, they have not released any information that I could get.

I guess we'll have to see what happens.

G.

Carlos

That seems like a good line of reasoning to me. At first I was thinking that maybe the swirling was somehow creating the knocking, but I suppose most knocking does tend to occur mostly in extreme temperatures and pressures, or with bad gas, so it would be kind of odd for it to knock under our conditions.

So then that leaves the noise as causable by the plates themselves, and/or by the actual sound of swirling air (which still seems like some weird air sounds, but oh well). Speculation here, but if they actually are putting in a new valve, then maybe its redesigned to swirl the air more quietly.

Carlos

I've read many theads addressing the VTCS. Which one are you refering to, and to what part of that thread.?

Could you be more specific with what you are trying to get at please?

Bob0a

Not to put water on this discussion, however, they did not replace any parts on my car. They did reprogram the ECU. I saw the FAX that was sent to the dealer and it looked like it was only instructions on how to update the program in the ECU. I did not get to read the entire FAX, but the tech seems to be saying that the he needed to "fake out" the programming tool to accept the new code. Something about VIN number and Mazda programming numbers. I surmise that the coding tools that Mazda use are VIN number specific. This would take the problem of which code, for which vehicle, in what country, was needed in each car away from the local tech (this is probably a good thing). Since my car is a 2002.5 they would need to over ride the programming sequence to allow a code for a 2003 ECU (or newer) to be put in my car. I would think that to meet US federal emission regulations that the code for each model, year, and engine would be approved and recorded differently. Thus if a change of the ECU (hardware) was needed, the emission code would already be approved for each year. That away the same ECU could be used for several different cars and possibly different engines (one stocking part) and still be custom for each car. This is just my opinion, as I didn’t get to read the entire FAX. However, I am happy with the results.

Bob

Carlos

Well that's interesting...Seems shaderman had a valve replaced and his ECU reflashed, and you just got a reflash. Didn't somebody mention that this was a test run of a fix? Maybe Shaderman got the new fix, and you got an old version of the fix.
I seem to remember some people took their cars in for a fix a while back that I think just consisted of an ECU reflash. Time will tell what the deal is I guess.

rodslinger

I spoke with the same technical contact I've had for the past year and they indicated there there WILL be a replacement valve but it isn't available yet. The TSB is to be released within 30 days. The dealers already have the ECU code which will help. The full fix will be out shortly. One of the techs at the local dealer here already has the full repair on his personal car as a test and indicated it is working.

-edit- The interesting part is for the longest time they indicated the noise was lean burn detonation during cold start emissions. Now the final word I got is the actual butterfly valves in the VTCS system is rattling on the seats when in the closed position. That was my original thought...

rodslinger

Just walk in through the sales department and start yelling "I'm sick of this m****ing rattle when cold and I want it fixed".

They'll take care of you.

frankd

Do you have the problem or not? If you don't even know, the answer would seem to be no, so why waste your time and the dealer's? If you do have the issue, just describe the issue you are having to them. Don't go making **** up.

cjb200

I would wait till the TSB is out. That way you can just take the number to the dealership and have them look it up (if they don't know what you're talking about). That's what I plan on doing.

chuck

Dealer always say : WHAT RATTLE... WE HAVE NO FIX FOR WHAT?

mnkyboy

YEP! Or "Our hands are tied, we cant do anything, Mazda doesnt have a fix". What ever happen to Customer Service? If somethings wrong, find out what is causing the problem and fix it. Dont wait for someone else to figure it out. Man, is this how all dealers work?? How does Mazda "fix" things, they just make the cars, they dont have anything to do with the consumer after the sale. Can someone explain to me how Mazda gets "fixes" for a car?

cjb200

If you read the earlier posts by roadslinger, you'll see that a fix is supposedly being tested and a TSB will be released withing 30 days. So wait till the TSB number is out, and take it to the dealer. If they have the number, they can't deny there's a problem.