Jeremey

I just bought a 2002 ProES 5 spd in July. I usually let my car warm up for a couple of minutes in the morning, but when I pull out and get up to 2500-2700 RPM in 1st, I too hear a metallic rattling. It goes away after a few seconds or if I shift into 2nd, and doesn't happen again in 1st after that, it's just that first rev up to 2500-2700. Is this the same thing everyone else is experiencing?

Also, I know this thread got started awhile ago, and here it is August 2002. Is there a fix out yet? I figure I should at least call/take it to the dealer and have them get a record of it....

Hawkeye

the rattle is part of the variable timing system used to make the P5 meet ULEV requirements. When the engine first starts up, it is very inefficient, so the system varies the timing to reduce emissions. In the process, it makes it run like crap, thus causing the rattle.

If you remove the vacuum hose to the solenoid that controls the VTS, the rattle will go away. I have done this and haven't had the rattle since. It doesn't affect the car in any other way; i.e. no ill effects from doing this.

customs222

I noticed that people were making mention to the "M-TIPS as of Sept 2001" that spoke of the problem. Is it possible to, and if so, how and where can I get a copy of this "M-TIPS". Sorry if it's a dumb question!

shaderman

After reporting the rattle problem to my dealer a little more than a year ago, imagine my surprise when they phoned just before Christmas to tell me they had a fix. I had actually forgotten about the problem since I just plugged the vacuum hose.

I went in for the service which was listed as "valve replacement and ECU reprogramming" and now the rattle is gone, although the engine sounds a bit beefier while warming up, but there is no noticeable metal-like rattle anymore.

Cheers,

Eric

rodslinger

I am currently on a tour of the south over the holidays. I was in Winston-Salem last week and stopped off at a Mazda dealer for an oil change/tire rotation and presented my usual bitch about the rattle. I was quite suprised when they said they just got in a new calibration for the complaint. They didn't say anything about a valve though. After a few days I can say that if did help but for me, the problem is still there. The rant will continue.

coolsox

I noticed the same problem, and notified the dealer when I went for my last maintenance ..

Should I make something more formal ?

The fix isn't out yet eh ?

There was 2 mechanics doing the maintenance on my car, and they said they problem was known but nothing had been done by mazda yet.

shaderman

If you read my earlier post, you will see that Mazda phoned me saying they had a fix, and then proceeded to replace a valve and reprogram the ECU which has solved the problem for me - so yes this fix is out.

Cheers,

Eric

mnkyboy

Do all Protege5s have this problem? Is it a certain number manufactured in a certain time frame? I dont notice a engine rattle when cold anymore, but when I first had the car, it was very loud when it first started up. Seems the noise lessened over time.

chuck

Rattle only on motors with equipted with VTCS ....MP3 doesn't have.

Mazda is only now testing the market with fix by only fixing a few complaints to see if it works. I asked my dealer and they know nothing right!

They will have a fix when the warranty runs out

coolsox

thanks shader ..

I'll go bugger them @ my next scheduled maintenance

Bob0a

Just had my appointment to get mine fixed (2002.5 sedan LX) and the dealership did not have any information on this fix. I called last week and made an appointment to have it done this Monday.

I took them to this board while I was at the dealership and they read the post about the fix. The local manager called the Mazda Tech hot line and found out that the bulletin has not been issued yet, however the Mazda Tech sent a FAX with the instructions on how to do the re-flash of the PCM calibration to the local tech. All done now.

When I got the car back it was already warm as they took it for a drive to see if everything was working all right. I did notice that the engine seems smoother now during acceleration and gear change from first to second (mines an automatic). I will let you know tomorrow how it’s working on cold start. I live in Florida and it doesn’t stay cold here all day. Tonight will dip into the 30’s and I should see if it’s made a difference by then.

Guido

The flash reprogram will just not allow the solenoid to energize and the VTCS will not function.

It won't affect emissions when the engine is warm and is only for cold starts anyway.

When you open the hood and look at the left rear of the intake manifold. You will see two solenoids on top, the one with the green connector is for the VTCS.

Disconnect the top vacuum line and plug the nipple on the solenoid. End of problem and no check engine light to worry about.

Cheers!
G.

Carlos

Thanks for the post Guido

Some on this board have tried disconnecting the vacuum hose you mentioned and have been successful in eliminating the noise. But I would think it strange if Mazda wrote a program completely disabling the VTCS system, ULEV laws and all. Could you let us know where you got this information? Did Mazda get some sort of waiver to get around ULEV? If this pans out, it could save a lot of us a trip to the dealer.

Thanks

Guido

Ultra Low Emission Vehicle standards are not required yet and a few vehicles on the market such as the Honda S2000 and others meet them at this time.

Do a search as to what American vehicles even reach this standard. The Cadillac Seville for example with the Northstar engine does, but not many other GM products do.

The Japanese have always stepped ahead of this requirement and thus is why they are at the forefront of hybrid vehicles and are ahead as far as OBD II California Air Reasearch Board requirements.

General Motors has been doing recall reflash calibrations for years, most require remapping of fuel and ignition curves for driveability. Yet after they are out on the market they may no longer meet the Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards imposed by the government.

However as long as the CARB limits are achieved then this is considered acceptable practice.

It's nothing new.

G.

Bob0a

Well it seems that the recalibration of the ECU does work. This morning the out side temperature was about 40 degrees and the engine is much quieter at start up. It does not completely eliminate the start up noise, however it greatly reduces it. The idle is much quieter (almost nonexistent) and the low RPM noise is reduced. It seems to me that the cold engine noise does go away sooner than before the adjustment. My perception is that the engine is quieter during the entire warm-up stage.

My perception is that the engine is smother in operation during stop-and-go driving while it is cold. Before the adjustment my car had a stiff (for lack of a better word) one-two shift (automatic transmission) during warm up that is not present any more. All in all, I am pleased with the change. I recommend the fix to everyone.

Bob