blew the engine :(
April-27th-2003, 01:41 PM
#31
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we dont want to discuss it all day long. What he said was said arrogantly and was wrong. What I said was correct. Maybe you need to "get" some knowledge also...
his condensending attitude and arrogance was the reason for the anger and rude comments made in return. It doesnt take a rock scientist to figure that out either....maybe theres a rock school in your area...good luck to ya.
his condensending attitude and arrogance was the reason for the anger and rude comments made in return. It doesnt take a rock scientist to figure that out either....maybe theres a rock school in your area...good luck to ya.
Last edited by Mach 1; April-27th-2003 at 01:47 PM.
April-27th-2003, 01:51 PM
#32
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Mach 1, I do agree with you that nitrous has a cooling affect on the temperature in the cylinders. However, I was under the impression that the nitrous oxide mixture would oxidize...the oxygen splitting from the nitrogen atoms. The boost of power would then have to come from the increased pressure due to there being more oxygen in the mixture, like a turbocharger effect...is this line of thinking wrong? It's what I was told about nitrous oxide.
April-27th-2003, 02:19 PM
#34
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Originally posted by gcs118
Mach 1, I do agree with you that nitrous has a cooling affect on the temperature in the cylinders. However, I was under the impression that the nitrous oxide mixture would oxidize...the oxygen splitting from the nitrogen atoms. The boost of power would then have to come from the increased pressure due to there being more oxygen in the mixture, like a turbocharger effect...is this line of thinking wrong? It's what I was told about nitrous oxide.
Mach 1, I do agree with you that nitrous has a cooling affect on the temperature in the cylinders. However, I was under the impression that the nitrous oxide mixture would oxidize...the oxygen splitting from the nitrogen atoms. The boost of power would then have to come from the increased pressure due to there being more oxygen in the mixture, like a turbocharger effect...is this line of thinking wrong? It's what I was told about nitrous oxide.
April-27th-2003, 04:34 PM
#35
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What I have said is also true.. nitrous does not increase compression like the way turbo/blower does. Nitrous can add an increase in pressure in the combustion chamber.. but not like how turbos and blowers do it. This is totally different. You'll be safer running NOS on a high compression engine than you would running a turbo... not to say that it can't be done, but with nitrous, you're not increasing static compression which is a big factor with detonation.
April-27th-2003, 05:47 PM
#37
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Yes, the cooling affect does help prevent detonation.. I never said anything close to the opposite. But, it doesn't increase pressures the way a turbo does it. Nitrous is just excited gas that is shot into the chamber to cool off the combustion process. It is constantly being burned up so there isn't a constant excess of air in the chamber causing increases in pressure. It provides more oxygen (not just regular air) so combustion is more effecient. Turbos and blowers constantly force air into the chamber (of course when in boost) which increases the compression ratio... which causes lots of heat. It's the combination of increased pressure and heat buildup from turbos that can instigate detonation.
People that use too big of shot of nitrous blow up not because they have high compression engines.. it's because there's too much oxygen for a complete and effecient combustion ... so you have excess which disrupts the timing of the combustion process.. which in turn causes detonation.
Also remember, it's not the actual air coming in that pushes the pistons up and down.. it's the combustion process that does it.
Air+fuel+spark = combustion
more air (turbo) + fuel + spark = bigger combustion
denser air (nitrous) + fuel + spark = bigger combustion
People that use too big of shot of nitrous blow up not because they have high compression engines.. it's because there's too much oxygen for a complete and effecient combustion ... so you have excess which disrupts the timing of the combustion process.. which in turn causes detonation.
Also remember, it's not the actual air coming in that pushes the pistons up and down.. it's the combustion process that does it.
Air+fuel+spark = combustion
more air (turbo) + fuel + spark = bigger combustion
denser air (nitrous) + fuel + spark = bigger combustion
April-27th-2003, 09:24 PM
#38
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Originally posted by b_real45
Yes, the cooling affect does help prevent detonation.. I never said anything close to the opposite. But, it doesn't increase pressures the way a turbo does it.
Yes, the cooling affect does help prevent detonation.. I never said anything close to the opposite. But, it doesn't increase pressures the way a turbo does it.
Originally posted by b_real45
Nitrous is just excited gas that is shot into the chamber to cool off the combustion process. It is constantly being burned up so there isn't a constant excess of air in the chamber causing increases in pressure.
Nitrous is just excited gas that is shot into the chamber to cool off the combustion process. It is constantly being burned up so there isn't a constant excess of air in the chamber causing increases in pressure.
Maybe you can explain that one again, because it sounds like your talking a bunch of crap to me...
Originally posted by b_real45
It provides more oxygen (not just regular air) so combustion is more effecient. Turbos and blowers constantly force air into the chamber (of course when in boost) which increases the compression ratio... which causes lots of heat. It's the combination of increased pressure and heat buildup from turbos that can instigate detonation.
It provides more oxygen (not just regular air) so combustion is more effecient. Turbos and blowers constantly force air into the chamber (of course when in boost) which increases the compression ratio... which causes lots of heat. It's the combination of increased pressure and heat buildup from turbos that can instigate detonation.
If you are saying that the nitrous wont increase it as much as a turbo because you are getting pure oxygen and not everything else thats in the air, I guess that would make sense to a point..but wouldnt it increase some?
Originally posted by b_real45
Air+fuel+spark = combustion
more air (turbo) + fuel + spark = bigger combustion
denser air (nitrous) + fuel + spark = bigger combustion
Air+fuel+spark = combustion
more air (turbo) + fuel + spark = bigger combustion
denser air (nitrous) + fuel + spark = bigger combustion
Last edited by Mach 1; April-27th-2003 at 09:36 PM.
April-27th-2003, 09:36 PM
#39
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Omg... are you trying to nit pick at everything???
No **** there needs to be compression for a combustion... we're talking about our motors here right??? or did someone throw in some other sort of "engine" that doesn't use compression to work???
No, turbo and nitrous don't force oxygen into the chamber the same way! Nitrous has a large amount of acuatl OXYGEN. Turbo forces the air around you which is mostly nitrogen and a little of oxygen. Turbo does not add pure oxygen into the chamber.
Nitrous is injected first as a liquid form??? Then it turns into a gas??? WTF?? care to explain?
Please... you tell US what your reasoning is on how Nitrous increases compressions.
You too might need to go and read some material.
No **** there needs to be compression for a combustion... we're talking about our motors here right??? or did someone throw in some other sort of "engine" that doesn't use compression to work???
No, turbo and nitrous don't force oxygen into the chamber the same way! Nitrous has a large amount of acuatl OXYGEN. Turbo forces the air around you which is mostly nitrogen and a little of oxygen. Turbo does not add pure oxygen into the chamber.
Nitrous is injected first as a liquid form??? Then it turns into a gas??? WTF?? care to explain?
Please... you tell US what your reasoning is on how Nitrous increases compressions.
You too might need to go and read some material.
April-27th-2003, 09:48 PM
#40
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The nitrous in the bottle is a liquid. When it hits the hot manifold, it expands, cooling and turning into a gas at around the same time. Thats what was explained to me by a knowledgeable nitrous user, and it makes sense.
Im not nitpicking anything, just responding to your comments. Whats wrong? You seem to be getting a little excited....
"No, turbo and nitrous don't force oxygen into the chamber the same way!"
Did I say that? Hmmmmmmmmm...I dont think so. Maybe you can point out where I said that.
I already explained why I thought nitrous would increase compression, maybe you cant comprehend english?
You said yourself that "force air into the chamber (of course when in boost) which increases the compression ratio... "
So why wont more oxygen in the chamber increase the compression ratio? Your saying air will increase it, but oxygen wont.
We all want to know........
Please educate us..........or do another cheap cop out like your last post.
Im not nitpicking anything, just responding to your comments. Whats wrong? You seem to be getting a little excited....
"No, turbo and nitrous don't force oxygen into the chamber the same way!"
Did I say that? Hmmmmmmmmm...I dont think so. Maybe you can point out where I said that.
I already explained why I thought nitrous would increase compression, maybe you cant comprehend english?
You said yourself that "force air into the chamber (of course when in boost) which increases the compression ratio... "
So why wont more oxygen in the chamber increase the compression ratio? Your saying air will increase it, but oxygen wont.
We all want to know........
Please educate us..........or do another cheap cop out like your last post.
April-27th-2003, 10:12 PM
#41
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You know I've been following this thread and it seems both of you are right in a way, so the arguing should just stop now...I can't even tell who is saying what anymore. Also, it's a little off topic now, too.
April-27th-2003, 10:16 PM
#42
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1.) Lets start off in a different way... What you said about it increases the pressure then cools it off preventing detonation.. yes thats true. We can all read Holley's website. It's there for all.
2.) YOU said that nitrous is INJECTED AS A LIQUID when in fact, as soon as it's out of the bottle, it is in a gaseous state. Never is it in liquid form when inside the engine.
3.) I stated in my first few posts that nitrous DOES increase cylinder pressures... but "not the way a turbo does". All I wanted to include was that a turbo/blower does it constantly (after boost threshold) but nitrous is not so. Plus it's a gradual thing with a turbo/blower but with nitrous, it's a --BAM-- quick change (in pressures).
4.) I'm not sure how all this started... but I do know that Nitrous does not force air to increase compression... what increases the compression from Nitrous is the actual act of Nitrous Oxide breaking down into nitrogen/oxygen... this expansion is what I'm claiming is different than how a turbo increases compression.
In short, nitrous, turbo, blowers all increase cylinder pressures, but turbo/blowers actually force the air in while the nitrous *creates* the air with a chemical reaction. (no it doesn't really create air... but the force of the chemical break down is what creates all the pressure).
EDIT: Btw, Mach 1... I'm not sure what I've said to you in previous posts.. but I do not appreciate the attitude you responded with. You may think I'm full of crap, but keep that to yourself until you get to know me.
2.) YOU said that nitrous is INJECTED AS A LIQUID when in fact, as soon as it's out of the bottle, it is in a gaseous state. Never is it in liquid form when inside the engine.
3.) I stated in my first few posts that nitrous DOES increase cylinder pressures... but "not the way a turbo does". All I wanted to include was that a turbo/blower does it constantly (after boost threshold) but nitrous is not so. Plus it's a gradual thing with a turbo/blower but with nitrous, it's a --BAM-- quick change (in pressures).
4.) I'm not sure how all this started... but I do know that Nitrous does not force air to increase compression... what increases the compression from Nitrous is the actual act of Nitrous Oxide breaking down into nitrogen/oxygen... this expansion is what I'm claiming is different than how a turbo increases compression.
In short, nitrous, turbo, blowers all increase cylinder pressures, but turbo/blowers actually force the air in while the nitrous *creates* the air with a chemical reaction. (no it doesn't really create air... but the force of the chemical break down is what creates all the pressure).
EDIT: Btw, Mach 1... I'm not sure what I've said to you in previous posts.. but I do not appreciate the attitude you responded with. You may think I'm full of crap, but keep that to yourself until you get to know me.
Last edited by b_real45; April-27th-2003 at 10:19 PM.
April-27th-2003, 11:17 PM
#44
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Originally posted by Protegé Menacé
I wonder where Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf is
I wonder where Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf is
you guys should beat each other with shoes
April-28th-2003, 08:03 AM
#45
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Originally posted by b_real45
2.) YOU said that nitrous is INJECTED AS A LIQUID when in fact, as soon as it's out of the bottle, it is in a gaseous state. Never is it in liquid form when inside the engine.
Seems your turning my words around. It was pretty clear what I meant, and instead of ansering the question, you continue to skirt the issue.
3.) I stated in my first few posts that nitrous DOES increase cylinder pressures... but "not the way a turbo does". All I wanted to include was that a turbo/blower does it constantly (after boost threshold) but nitrous is not so. Plus it's a gradual thing with a turbo/blower but with nitrous, it's a --BAM-- quick change (in pressures).
As long as the button is held in and the bottle isnt empty, its just as constant as being in boost. Again, I dont see any point of relavance being made.
4.) I'm not sure how all this started... but I do know that Nitrous does not force air to increase compression... what increases the compression from Nitrous is the actual act of Nitrous Oxide breaking down into nitrogen/oxygen... this expansion is what I'm claiming is different than how a turbo increases compression.
How all of this started is that you previously said that nitrous did not increase compression, now you are saying it does? Hmmm, thats pretty clear, and I didnt even go back to re-read the thread. Why dont you just admit you made a mistake instead of trying to bullshit everybody hear?
In short, nitrous, turbo, blowers all increase cylinder pressures, but turbo/blowers actually force the air in while the nitrous *creates* the air with a chemical reaction. (no it doesn't really create air... but the force of the chemical break down is what creates all the pressure).
What creates the pressure is the additional oxygen burning, just like additional oxygen being forced in by a blower/turbo.
EDIT: Btw, Mach 1... I'm not sure what I've said to you in previous posts.. but I do not appreciate the attitude you responded with. You may think I'm full of crap, but keep that to yourself until you get to know me.
2.) YOU said that nitrous is INJECTED AS A LIQUID when in fact, as soon as it's out of the bottle, it is in a gaseous state. Never is it in liquid form when inside the engine.
Seems your turning my words around. It was pretty clear what I meant, and instead of ansering the question, you continue to skirt the issue.
3.) I stated in my first few posts that nitrous DOES increase cylinder pressures... but "not the way a turbo does". All I wanted to include was that a turbo/blower does it constantly (after boost threshold) but nitrous is not so. Plus it's a gradual thing with a turbo/blower but with nitrous, it's a --BAM-- quick change (in pressures).
As long as the button is held in and the bottle isnt empty, its just as constant as being in boost. Again, I dont see any point of relavance being made.
4.) I'm not sure how all this started... but I do know that Nitrous does not force air to increase compression... what increases the compression from Nitrous is the actual act of Nitrous Oxide breaking down into nitrogen/oxygen... this expansion is what I'm claiming is different than how a turbo increases compression.
How all of this started is that you previously said that nitrous did not increase compression, now you are saying it does? Hmmm, thats pretty clear, and I didnt even go back to re-read the thread. Why dont you just admit you made a mistake instead of trying to bullshit everybody hear?
In short, nitrous, turbo, blowers all increase cylinder pressures, but turbo/blowers actually force the air in while the nitrous *creates* the air with a chemical reaction. (no it doesn't really create air... but the force of the chemical break down is what creates all the pressure).
What creates the pressure is the additional oxygen burning, just like additional oxygen being forced in by a blower/turbo.
EDIT: Btw, Mach 1... I'm not sure what I've said to you in previous posts.. but I do not appreciate the attitude you responded with. You may think I'm full of crap, but keep that to yourself until you get to know me.