Roddimus Prime

well there is a difference between the WW project car and any other sedan painted yellow with the WW kti and a turbo. Their supercharged car had NO intercooler. The only other AREA51 kit went to a private individual and it was on an mp3 I believe.

Roddimus Prime

this is the ACTUAL ww project car with the AREA51 kit. No intercooler to be found. I think you must've seen a random mp3 with a turbo kit.

milmoejoe

if not its a very similar car all the way down to the yellow tint, decals, etc.

I know the car was recently ebay'ed here in the last few months, it could've easily undergone some changes.

I'll scan in my pic later tonight.

milmoejoe

crappy scan, but you get the idea

milmoejoe

like I said, I believe there to be more than one, i've been very picky looking at the hoods and was fairly sure their mp3 had a black painted hood w/ i c before the CF hood was released.

milmoejoe

Like I said, I am most skeptical regarding the power steering system. I know nothing about what it includes and involves.

I've asked friends who have been into tuning for nearly a decade and they say its mostly a matter of personal preference, that even autocross cars are some w/ and some w/out power steerint. With that I've never driven a car without power steering (to my knowledge) so I don't know if its something I like.

But, you are saying now that you have figured out a way to keep the resivoir and relocate it?

Roddimus Prime

yeah, the car you've posted isn't the official WW car with the supercharger...looks like a close knock-off though.


Yes, the powersteering is staying unless a customer would rather lose it instead. The only thing that matters is that the blower be mounted in the location of the power steering pump.

I personaly think it's MUCH wiser to keep powersteering. The protege has a great steering system.

milmoejoe

what are you looking at in terms of cost NON intercooled to begin with, I would be much more likely to be able to front the money minus the cost of the IC and the piping, obviously, the ideal would be to have this be a bolt on upgrade.

Also, in terms of headers are any of the awr, obx, ractive headers compatable, or do they have to be custom tailored?

Also, another concern I have is the exhaust. I don't know about other parts of the country, but recently in fairfax county VA here, cops are ticketing heavily for aftermarket exhausts. Whats the possibility of me being able to run an electronic exhaust cutout on stock piping? (Poissibly 2.5" to an OEM looking muffler) Would there be a problem running low boost 3-4 daily, and 5-6 with open exhaust? I'm on traffic probation for a good amount of time and a ticket like this would simply do me in.

obviously this setup, non intercooled-> header-> exhaust cutout is not the optimal tuned and maxed horsepower setup, but at least more of a start in the right direction.

lmk your thoughts

p.s. I am totally open to removing the AC, as it is not something I use, even in the 90-100 humid weather we have here. I am a "windows down" cruiser.

Roddimus Prime

I don't believe I'm going to make a non-intercooled version of the kit. There are a few reasons why.
#1. Safety, an intercooled FI set-up is far more reliable and powerful than a non-intercooled.

#2. Boost drop, I'm actually counting on the intercooler to pull 1psi or so off the blower. The superchargers I'm looking at force enough air at 6psi to feed a chevy 350cid engine. The same 6psi on our FS-de engines could be disasterous. That is a lot of air to be cramming into the motor and an intercooler will help bleed some of that off.

#3, It just plain looks cooler. If I do end up going with the Powerdyne there is no way anyone outside the car will know it's supercharged unless you tell them. The Powerdyne makes absolutely 0 noise. Even under full boost there is no whine associated with most superchargers. Powerdyne uses an internal kevlar belt to drive it's impeller and since there are no gears, no oiling, etc there is no noise. Just thrust. The intercooler in the grill will let people subtley know that you're boosted.


This will be mad to fit around the stock exhaust unlike the AREA51 kit which required a custom header. There is a problem though with any FI set-up. If you cram that much more air into the motor you HAVE to be able to get it out. While a header and exhaust are not required they are recommended. The last thing you want to have happen is to blow a headgasket because of exhaust backpressure. If you were to use the Wagner header with a high flow downpipe or the OBX header and relocate the o2 sensors to the second cat then you should be more than fine. You just have to relieve that pressure off the head. This is a common problem with the ford supercoupes. Their exhaust design caused too much backpressure and they constatnly blew head gaskets. Thats what happens when you make 210hp and 320lb/ft on a 3.8L v6!!

p.s. I don't think a cut-out will be helpfull because you need to remove the restrictions at the head to prevent any damage. This of course is just preventive maintaince but something to look into if you're serious about making more power.

milmoejoe

What about the addition of a BOV/BPV ?

I'm starting to do some reading on the other boards about the powerdyne, here are some tidbits of info I have read:

*'would not reccommend intercooler for powerdyne kit due to it increasing the speed of the impeller speed, (unsafe)'

*My experience with the P/D was:
POSITIVES:
1) Low Price
2) Easiest to install
3) Decent power gain
4) Quieter

NEGATIVES:
1) Doesn't come with a fuel pump upgrade (highly recommend as the stock fuel pump barely supports the stock motor).
2) Doesn't have a by-pass valve set-up to relieve boost when you let off the gas.
3) Had to send mine back after approx. 3 months due to bad bearings in the head unit, could only get about 3psi boost at WOT. Better after repaired under warranty.
4) Doesn't come with an intercooler.
5) Factory set-up is 5-6psi only.


also, how is boost adjusted with the supercharger setup since there is no wastegate?

Roddimus Prime

first off....I'm only using the powerdyne HEADUNIT....this is not a powerdyne KIT. this is MY kit. It WILL come with an intercooler, it will come with ALL needed fuel control pieces, electronics and sensors to work correctly.

As for your questions:

There will be no BOV...there will be a recirc valve. The reason this is used is because it allows for better drivability on the street (driveability was my #1 goal). a BPV or BOV is only needed for anything over about 12psi on these blowers and they only put out about 9psi with stock pulleys.

How do you adjust the boost?? Boost on a supercharger is ONLY created by the crank pulley size, the blower pulley size and engine rpms. The smaller the blower pulley the faster it will spin and the more boost it will create. This is another reason why you can't use underdrive pulleys with a supercharger. It throws the specific ratios needed to turn the blower at speed. This is a benefit of superchargers. don't look at it as a down side. This will never boost creep or spike like EVERY turbo kit will do.

about the boost only being 5-6psi....there is a reason for that. Check the sfm rating of how much air it is pumping at that same 6psi. This is similar to a lot of the questions....how much boost can my motor handle?? well it all depends on your turbo sizing and how much it's huffing on the motor. I assure you that a powerdyne running 6psi will be MORE than enough to supply your motor with the boost you'd want. I'd equate it to about 15+psi on a .42 trim T3. These blowers are designed to feed large V8's. They will have no problem breathing on your 2.0L.

p.s. an intercooler cannot increase impeller speed. The only thing that controlls impeller speed is the blower pulleyu, crank pulley and engine rpm....it's all phsyically connected...it's not like a vaccuum operated turbo set-up.

Roddimus Prime

oh p.s. The guy who said he had to have "bearings" replaced is a liar. The reason the Powerdyne makes no noise is that there are NO bearings to lubricate and no metal-on-metal contact. The blower pulley drives a larger internal pulley which is conected to a kevlar belt which in turn drives a smaller impeller pulley. This is called "stepping up". It means the engine has to turn less rpms to create the same or more boost. Procharger does that as well but there is gear driven and internally lubricated.

milmoejoe

so a blow off valve decreases reliability in this case ?

Roddimus Prime

no no no no....not relaibility...DRIVEABILITY. The maf meter has already accounted for the air in the intake plumbing and if you discharge it to the atmosphere and then hit the throttle again you run real rich and the car bogs and sputters...a recirc valve is the exact same thing as a BOV except it dishcrages the gas back into the intake plumbing so when you hit the throttle again it's right there and doesn't have to wait for the turbo to spool back up.

This is the same style setup the MSP uses...you hear about people having problems with their BOV's....kinda the same thing.

milmoejoe

done some more reading, and found a few interesting points
on the f150 and s10 forums the general concensus is that the powerdyne head is a fairly good, cheap and reliable alternative to the other companies, i/e: procharger, vortec, eaton, etc.

They say that the "installation is a breeze" appx 3 hours for the powerdyne (factory KIT) whereas some users had tried more than one, and experienced a much longer install time for other kits.

One compared a procharger kit (came intercooled) to the non intercooled powerdyne kit he had and said that the powerdyne was nice for its easy and clean install (looked very professional he says), no modifications necessary, and that the charger could 'be removed and run n/a fairly easily", leading to a simple return to stock look if a desire to sell were to arise.

In contrast to his ATI kit that he had installed after, he said this install took him appx 4 days (on and off) to install successfully. With much cutting and relocating he finally got everything situated. He said he overall happier with this kit, that even though the install didn't look anywhere near as clean as the dyne, that the overall quality of the charger and the power produced was much more satisfying.

Also, the major eye opener for me was the number of people who had complained about breaking their headunits. This was reportedly, across the board, problems resulting from "not being educated in how the blowers work, that these are not meant to be heavily downshifted on, and WILL break them"

Now, don't get me wrong. I just got thru with my little experience loosing my license for a first offense reckless ticket, and will never take a race to the streets again. BUT, I know for a fact that 75% of the races that occur on my local streets happen from a roll, in which case, downshifting typically occurs. If I were to have a kit like this, I have no intentions of racing whatsoever, track or street. I just hope to change the stick in the mud acceleration many of us n/a 2.0's have come to hate. But, even at that, I don't do any 5th -> 2nd downshifting, but obviously do downshift on a daily basis.

Any thoughts?