leungwingkei

After going through many dyno plots on AEM and Injen's website and comparing it to the P5's, I noticed that the power at the wheels of the P5 is much less than another car with identical horsepower figures at the crank.

Given there are test discrepencies and measurement inaccuracies, but still it would not display the drastic differences in the power reported at the crank.

I compared both the dyno plots of the P5 to that of the Corolla (because they both claim to have 130hp at the crank, and also my girlfriend has a Corolla S) on both the AEM and Injen websites. Here is what I found.

The P5 dynoed with a max of 95hp at the wheel, that is a loss of 35hp, pretty much IMO. But then the Corolla with also a claimed 130 at the crank dynoed with a max of 127hp at the wheel. That's only a loss of 3hp.

From these findings I can draw several conclusions.

1. The Corolla hp at the crank is understated, perhaps it makes closer to 145hp.

2. The Corolla has an extremely efficient transmission.

3. The Protege5 has a very inefficient transmission relative to the Corolla.

4. I hate to say this, but Mazda is pulling off the same trick they did on the Miata several years ago by overstating hp figures for the FS-DE. This is also like the case recently involving Hyundai.


I hope my last conclusion is not correct. If it is, I would really get angry at this stint that Mazda pulled again it already has in the past. At this point, everything is speculation.

Anyone have any thoughts on this??

alcoholiday

someone go race a kia rv-x (104 hp) and we'll know for sure.

macdaddyslomo

I think they underrated the Corolla...I have never heard of a car only losing 3hp from crank to wheels...the protege's loss is a bit high,but I have noticed it greatly benefits from being broken in,as I have seen dyno charts on stock p5's at like 110whp to 112whp,after about 5000 miles on the odometer

pr5owner

same with the Celica, its 180HP but shows something around 170HP @ the wheels, toyota engines are actaully underrated

funkdaddysmack

I dunno, but it's interesting either way. Carrying over the gearing issue from my fuel efficiency thread, it may perform like a comparable 130hp car because it's geared so low compared to other cars. Lower gearing = faster acceleration, which is a false assumption for more power. Could they be over-rating the engine hp #s? Probably, but I don't think mazda would resort to that.

martialcomp

I noticed exactly the same thing. This is the one thing stopping me from purchasing a Mazda Protege.

Let me explain. The Toyota Corolla only loses about 10 hp to the wheels. The Mazda loses much more. Heck, even a Mazda MP3 has less horsepower than a stock Corolla. Either the Corolla is under rated, or as I feared, it is just much more efficient. Because I like the Protege, I have been hoping for a chip, cam gears, exhaust combo that would bring it up to the HP numbers of the Corolla. But, so far it is not available.

Corolla
http://www.injen.com/webpages/testin...les/RD2068.jpg

Mazda MP3
http://www.injen.com/webpages/testin...les/RD6060.jpg

Mazda Protege ES 2.0
http://www.racingbeat.com/Protege/Dyno/Chart.htm

The only upgrade that might work as a chip upgrade is the Unichip?

http://www.thedynoshop.com/chip.html

The maker of the product is here:

http://www.dastek.co.za/

Notice that the Unichip MUST be dyno tuned. It cannot be just installed without being dyno tuned for optimum performance.

martialcomp

I have NO IDEA if the Unichip will work in a Protege or not. My guess is that it would. However I do NOT own a Protege, I own a Toyota Tacoma with a computer chip upgrade from G-Force Engineering which is no longer in business.

I expect some of you to investigate this and find out if this chip will work with the Protege. If not, then oh well...I am back to the Corolla idea. Its gas mileage is far superior to the Protege anyway. But, I like the look and feel of the Protege.

martialcomp

I am a little suprised that no one actually read the dyno charts.

The Corolla's max torque reading is 118 ft pounds.

The MP3 is 115.9.

The ES is 113.8.

These were the STOCK numbers.

martialcomp

The Mazda MP3 puts out 110.9 hp and 115.9 ft pounds of torque. Now, I am not sure if the MP3 has a Racing Beat exhaust or not, but the ES with the Racing Beat exhaust shows 108.3 hp and 118.8 ft pounds of torque.

This means that the ES has essentially the same hp and torque numbers as an MP3 when the Racing Beat exhaust is added?

Interesting...

Spikes-5

that makes me so mad
I knew mazda tryed that before
but I cant belive that they would do that agian.
ENything to boost sales I guess right
I wish I could take it back.
I guess I'll have to try and get the vw 1.8t
you can at least chip it to over 200hp and over 255fp of torque
for the low price of $650
the mazda turbo kit costs almost 6000 canadian
and its numbers are'nt that great
you would think with a 2 liter you could get more
you can spend the same money on a impreza 2.5 j-spec sti engine
and put 280 hp to the ground

my faith in mazda is fading
and the only part about mazda ill ever thank them for is perfecting the wankel rotory .

I'm sorry If i was a bit harsh
but I bought the car thinking it would be a great car to tune
and to be a good famliy car. When I have a family that is.

martialcomp

Is outstanding. I have a co-worker with one. I like those as well but they are expensive. They also would require premium fuel. But, then again, timing advanced on a Protege would also require premium fuel.

However, the Protege has more rear leg room and has a better look and feel than the VW IMHO...

Also, turbos tend to crush the rings in no more than 120,000 miles. I once owned a Mazda 626 GT turbo and the rings take a beating when a motor is force inducted. This is why I am not too enthused by the Mazda Speed turbo. Also, I live in So Cal and the traffic here is CRAZY! So, I am an automatic trans guy. That eliminates the Mazda Speed for me.

But, Edmunds says that the VW Jetta gets almost 30 mpg at 80 mph.

YellowMP5

i have been saying for more than a year that our cars don't make 130hp at the crank. nobody wanted to listen.

jaje

hmmm...the guys i know with vw's have bunch of problems and since new have the car in the dealer every other month for something...then by 80k miles the engines are basically ready to retire...only the 1.8t tends to stay alive longer

obender66

We are talking again about number which is useless -max hp or lb ft.
Look at those dyno graphs again and delete that torgue spike on Corolla graph-its' useless, you won't be able to outaccelerate anybody by having extra 10 lb ft just in less than 1000 rpm range. That will make Corolla max torgue less than max torgue on ES. And look at 2 to 4k at ES-if we smoothe those stupid spikes, torgue stays consistently flat at 110 lb ft, Corolla-all over the place, even falling below 100 lb ft.
As for horsepower-I am starting to believe that short gearing in Protege has something to do with low hp figure. I suspect if we put Corolla gearbox on Protege we will get more than 120 at the wheels, but we will loose torgue as well. Any comments?
Alex

Mach 1

The gearing shouldnt affect the HP numbers on a dyno in any way, so that theory doesnt make much sense.

Why overanalyze this? The corrolla makes more power than the protege....big deal...nobody really cares anyway....two economy cars...both slow.......