Super AFC won't work?!
May-13th-2002, 03:59 PM
#16
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Palm Bay, FL
Posts: 163
I think you guys are missing a main point here. All modern OBDII equipped cars (as far as I know) are just like the Mazda ECU. Ours are no different than anyone elses OBDII cars that are already using an AFC. It will net you jack squat in closed loop mode. Who cares? That's not where you want to make your adjustments anyway. When I had my IS300 I talked to several people who had intake and exhaust and saw gains, then they put on a S-AFC and saw 10-15 WHP!! at WOT. Now I am not saying that its worth the money, or that you would see those kind of gains on a 2L 4 banger, but the fact remains that you can use it, and probably could use it to score some extra power. As soon as I can scrape together the funds for a CAI and exhaust, I will put a SAFC on to see what I can get, just cause I already have one.
I just started this whole thread cause someone said it wouldn't work with the "Mazda" ECU which just isn't true. Now the validity of it being a worth while mod is a whole seperate argument.
I just started this whole thread cause someone said it wouldn't work with the "Mazda" ECU which just isn't true. Now the validity of it being a worth while mod is a whole seperate argument.
May-14th-2002, 12:04 AM
#19
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 5
Did you guys know that a lot of ecu's do not stay stay in closed loop past 3000-4000 rpm because a regular o2 sensor does not react fast enough to supply proper info for the ecu at higher rpms. Unless you're ecu relies on, maybe, a wide band o2 than it might stay in closed loop longer.
Not sure if this is relevent to this thread... but I thought I'd throw it in anyways since nobody's mentioned it.
Not sure if this is relevent to this thread... but I thought I'd throw it in anyways since nobody's mentioned it.
Last edited by chooch; May-14th-2002 at 12:31 PM.
May-14th-2002, 04:52 PM
#20
Patriotic Protege5
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Hampton, VA
Posts: 908
That would be nice to know for sure. Does anybody know if the Miata's ECU does open/close loop like the 3rd gen protege (2.0L specifically). I am still looking into the LINK for a turbo system. I basically want what the flyin miata kits have and they include the LINK system so I would like a similar kit....
May-14th-2002, 07:00 PM
#21
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: laurel md
Posts: 127
Well another question is:
Has anyone tried this on the MP5 yet? What was your results i understand that it only works in open loop and open loop is at WOT. So if you are racing then you are at WOT the whole time right? So you would want to have the AFC working then right?i mean what do you care what it is doing during part throttle.
If i am looking at this in the wrong way please correct me?
The way i am reading this trend is that the AFC only works in open loop and open loop POSSIBLY happens at about 75-90 % throttle right? If not then then WOT throttle. So if the AFC is used in a racing sense and you are at WOT doing that, then you will be in open loop where the AFC works at all the time and you can control it through the RPM band right? At all other times i could care less about open loop and closed loop since i might just be cruising. It is just when i am trying to merge or when i am trying to go down the track or what ever it may be that will make me be at about 75-90 throttle or WOT which is open loop.
Help me out fellas!!
Has anyone tried this on the MP5 yet? What was your results i understand that it only works in open loop and open loop is at WOT. So if you are racing then you are at WOT the whole time right? So you would want to have the AFC working then right?i mean what do you care what it is doing during part throttle.
If i am looking at this in the wrong way please correct me?
The way i am reading this trend is that the AFC only works in open loop and open loop POSSIBLY happens at about 75-90 % throttle right? If not then then WOT throttle. So if the AFC is used in a racing sense and you are at WOT doing that, then you will be in open loop where the AFC works at all the time and you can control it through the RPM band right? At all other times i could care less about open loop and closed loop since i might just be cruising. It is just when i am trying to merge or when i am trying to go down the track or what ever it may be that will make me be at about 75-90 throttle or WOT which is open loop.
Help me out fellas!!
May-14th-2002, 08:28 PM
#22
Always Flippin The Game
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: DFW, Texas
Posts: 558
Originally posted by azrakain
That would be nice to know for sure. Does anybody know if the Miata's ECU does open/close loop like the 3rd gen protege (2.0L specifically). I am still looking into the LINK for a turbo system. I basically want what the flyin miata kits have and they include the LINK system so I would like a similar kit....
That would be nice to know for sure. Does anybody know if the Miata's ECU does open/close loop like the 3rd gen protege (2.0L specifically). I am still looking into the LINK for a turbo system. I basically want what the flyin miata kits have and they include the LINK system so I would like a similar kit....
http://forum.protegemp3.com/vbb225/s...&threadid=1845
He got:
5psi=161 whp
8psi=188whp
and 230 WHP with the boost up, and timing retarded (he told me on the phone)
Stock whp is about 115-118 if I am not mistaken
May-15th-2002, 11:41 AM
#24
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Location: Spokane WA
Posts: 453
After having my car on the dyno I can tell you that the stock fuel curve is painfully rich. The timing isn't near aggressive enough either, but is damn near tailor made for boosted applications. Since we want to control the fuel first to see what the car will do, I'm going to try something a little different. Instead of running an electronic piggyback and fooling the stock computer, I'm going to try to get an adjustable pressure regulator and take some of the fuel pressure out. The stock ECU will compensate in closed loop, but the WOT settings will be leaner since the comp doesn't change those. I'm trying to source an adjustable regulator and will try it on the dyno to see what happens.
Also, stock HP on the 2.0L is approx 96 for the ES, and approx 98-99 for the MP3. Yeah, I know it's not 10 extra HP but that info comes from several different people that have dynoed the cars. The big difference is that the timing is a lot more aggressive on the MP3 and it has a lot better throttle response.
Also, stock HP on the 2.0L is approx 96 for the ES, and approx 98-99 for the MP3. Yeah, I know it's not 10 extra HP but that info comes from several different people that have dynoed the cars. The big difference is that the timing is a lot more aggressive on the MP3 and it has a lot better throttle response.
May-15th-2002, 05:19 PM
#26
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When Tripoint did theirs they only got a bit over 98. I've talked to a couple other places that have tested them and they've said the highest they'd seen on a dynojet was 103.
Talked to a rep at Apexi today. They said the only product that would be benificial to us is their Super-AFC. They do not have a wiring diagram for it however and I was told that we'd have to get a shop manual and identify which wires to connect to ourselves.
Also spoke with a rep at Jet and they have an ECU upgrade package for our cars now. The item code is #65002. It's $399 from them, but I called around and found that part # from Landspeed for $279. Basically you pay for it over the phone or online, they send you a box that's ready to be shipped to Jet along with instructions for removing your ECU and packaging it. You're responsible for shipping it to JET. The turnaround is usually 24 hours at JET from the time they receive it. They send it back 2 day service and the cost of return shipping is covered in the cost of the Upgrade package. They are claiming 9-11 WHP with this ECU upgrade. They will ask you what mods you have done via the questionaire that's included in the shipping package. Lot's cheaper than a Unichip and you can install it yourself without having to tune it on a dyno. Drawback is, you can't tune it.
Also, I've been unable to locate a fuel pressure regulator that will work on our cars. All the universal ones use a return line. There is supposed to be one out for the new Honda system without a return line, but that's the only one (figures).
AEM is still saying that there may be a Plug and Play stand alone for our cars coming. They won't give out any more information than that. Got the impression they were being tight lipped and are doing something that they don't want to talk about or broadcast.
I was told the Link system wouldn't work on our cars due to it being attached internally to the Miata computer. I'm curious to know how it was done on that MP3.
Talked to a rep at Apexi today. They said the only product that would be benificial to us is their Super-AFC. They do not have a wiring diagram for it however and I was told that we'd have to get a shop manual and identify which wires to connect to ourselves.
Also spoke with a rep at Jet and they have an ECU upgrade package for our cars now. The item code is #65002. It's $399 from them, but I called around and found that part # from Landspeed for $279. Basically you pay for it over the phone or online, they send you a box that's ready to be shipped to Jet along with instructions for removing your ECU and packaging it. You're responsible for shipping it to JET. The turnaround is usually 24 hours at JET from the time they receive it. They send it back 2 day service and the cost of return shipping is covered in the cost of the Upgrade package. They are claiming 9-11 WHP with this ECU upgrade. They will ask you what mods you have done via the questionaire that's included in the shipping package. Lot's cheaper than a Unichip and you can install it yourself without having to tune it on a dyno. Drawback is, you can't tune it.
Also, I've been unable to locate a fuel pressure regulator that will work on our cars. All the universal ones use a return line. There is supposed to be one out for the new Honda system without a return line, but that's the only one (figures).
AEM is still saying that there may be a Plug and Play stand alone for our cars coming. They won't give out any more information than that. Got the impression they were being tight lipped and are doing something that they don't want to talk about or broadcast.
I was told the Link system wouldn't work on our cars due to it being attached internally to the Miata computer. I'm curious to know how it was done on that MP3.
Last edited by Traveler; May-15th-2002 at 05:37 PM.
May-16th-2002, 01:50 AM
#27
Always Flippin The Game
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: DFW, Texas
Posts: 558
There is a wiring diagram on the protegemp3 website. I will have to hunt it down...here it is:
ECU Diagram
ECU Diagram
May-16th-2002, 09:15 AM
#29
That's me!!
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 337
Originally posted by Traveler
When Tripoint did theirs they only got a bit over 98. I've talked to a couple other places that have tested them and they've said the highest they'd seen on a dynojet was 103.
(snip)
When Tripoint did theirs they only got a bit over 98. I've talked to a couple other places that have tested them and they've said the highest they'd seen on a dynojet was 103.
(snip)
Grassroots Motorsports dyno'ed a stock MP3 and got 113 at the wheels. They tested the MP3 and a number of other "letter cars" to see what ones offer the best back for the buck in stock trim.
Last edited by StuttersC; May-16th-2002 at 09:37 AM.
May-16th-2002, 09:29 AM
#30
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: laurel md
Posts: 127
Well i will go ahead and try it and see what i get since it looks like no one has tried this mod. Once i find one and have the money for it then i will install it and let you guys know what i find out.
If it doesn't work then i will sell it like i did when i bought it for my 1990 probe gt and found out that it didn't work due to the voltage in the VAF was to high. The AFC works between 3~5V and the VAF on the 1990 probe gt idles at just under 5V so when you hit the gas the voltage will go up and the car will die!!
If it doesn't work then i will sell it like i did when i bought it for my 1990 probe gt and found out that it didn't work due to the voltage in the VAF was to high. The AFC works between 3~5V and the VAF on the 1990 probe gt idles at just under 5V so when you hit the gas the voltage will go up and the car will die!!
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