So this guy asks me...
October-13th-2005, 01:26 PM
#17
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Central Pennyslvania
Posts: 8
Well I could walk down to the Wagner shop, and I'm going to. The 2.0L is becoming less of a possibility in my mind. Fabricating an oil pan isn't simple, I know people who have and could potentially do this. Even with the entire guts of the motor strengthened in every way the cost would come in around $2,000 for the parts. In my mind this is too much money to spend without considering the valvetrain. I would say that the power produced at this point is still not worth the expense.
My concern now is the claim of the 1.6L motor being stronger. Is the ZM really a B6?
My concern now is the claim of the 1.6L motor being stronger. Is the ZM really a B6?
October-13th-2005, 01:47 PM
#18
Moderator/ Pocket Tuner
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Tampa,Fl
Posts: 4,150
Originally Posted by Big Smoke
My concern now is the claim of the 1.6L motor being stronger. Is the ZM really a B6?
The Z series is an evolution of the B6
If you don't believe the ZM is stronger, do a search under 1.6L turbo
biknman was the pioneer on this and he was running over 285 wheel horsepower ,reliably, before he decided he should do an internals upgrade
goldpro is currently running 185 wheel horsepower and 224 lb-ft of torque on stock internals
October-13th-2005, 04:26 PM
#25
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 778
MIght even spool eariler just because the increased volemetric efficency with the s-vt.
Besides if the zl is turboed you might have more fun off boost, again just because of the s-vt.
Although it is more costly.
Besides if the zl is turboed you might have more fun off boost, again just because of the s-vt.
Although it is more costly.
October-13th-2005, 05:34 PM
#26
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Tampa,Fl
Posts: 4,150
personally I'd love to have a turbo'd zl-ve......23 more hp stock tells me it's moving more air, so it'd spool a turbo quicker
plus an even STRONGER bottom end.....
but I just couldnt afford it................
plus an even STRONGER bottom end.....
but I just couldnt afford it................
October-14th-2005, 12:26 PM
#27
YEAH WOW CHILDISH!
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: under your bed
Posts: 1,727
Originally Posted by macdaddyslomo
It's hardly a claim...it's mathematics...shorter rod = stronger rod
The Z series is an evolution of the B6
If you don't believe the ZM is stronger, do a search under 1.6L turbo
biknman was the pioneer on this and he was running over 285 wheel horsepower ,reliably, before he decided he should do an internals upgrade
goldpro is currently running 185 wheel horsepower and 224 lb-ft of torque on stock internals
The Z series is an evolution of the B6
If you don't believe the ZM is stronger, do a search under 1.6L turbo
biknman was the pioneer on this and he was running over 285 wheel horsepower ,reliably, before he decided he should do an internals upgrade
goldpro is currently running 185 wheel horsepower and 224 lb-ft of torque on stock internals
October-19th-2005, 09:05 AM
#28
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: "In a VAN...down by the RIVER!" (WV)
Posts: 234
Originally Posted by Roddimus Prime
I know the sunbelt engines are used in tripoint cars and make 250-ish whp. They last only a few races and cost a fortune. So is the life of a NA build.
I personally have built my share of FI systems and a sub-$1K turbo kit would NEVER go on one of my cars that I cared about. If you're worried about the cost then an NA swap is NOT the way to go. The FS-DE engines have a LOT of problems with them.
1. WEAK rods....super weak. I farted on a downshift once and bent one.
2. aftermarket rods/pistons cost a fortune. These aren't hondas.
3. the ECU is total junk. Full standalone is the ONLY way to get decent power out of serious NA build. For FI cars it's not as much of an issue.
4. finding aftermarket cams will be impossible as none exsist. You could purchase new billits from mazdaspeed of japan and do all of your math yourself and have them ground but expect to pay about $500 for the cams and labor.
5. Cam gears are VERY expensive. I think they are $350-400. The exhaust gear is the pricey one as the fs-de ecu requires a 3 magnetic pick-up instead of a standard 1 pick-up.
6. the head flows for crap....even ported/polished/honed...it's a bad head. If you were to design an all aluminum DOHC head with oversized valve ports and something similar to a honda K20 or Toyota 1.8L you'd have something on your hands. but again...$$$$$
7. Oil pan design. The oil pan is un-baffled and numerous proteges have met their end taking turns (which is ironically what they do best). The oil sloshes away from the pick up and WHAM, engine gone. I know of several people PERSONALLY that it's happened to.
I personally have built my share of FI systems and a sub-$1K turbo kit would NEVER go on one of my cars that I cared about. If you're worried about the cost then an NA swap is NOT the way to go. The FS-DE engines have a LOT of problems with them.
1. WEAK rods....super weak. I farted on a downshift once and bent one.
2. aftermarket rods/pistons cost a fortune. These aren't hondas.
3. the ECU is total junk. Full standalone is the ONLY way to get decent power out of serious NA build. For FI cars it's not as much of an issue.
4. finding aftermarket cams will be impossible as none exsist. You could purchase new billits from mazdaspeed of japan and do all of your math yourself and have them ground but expect to pay about $500 for the cams and labor.
5. Cam gears are VERY expensive. I think they are $350-400. The exhaust gear is the pricey one as the fs-de ecu requires a 3 magnetic pick-up instead of a standard 1 pick-up.
6. the head flows for crap....even ported/polished/honed...it's a bad head. If you were to design an all aluminum DOHC head with oversized valve ports and something similar to a honda K20 or Toyota 1.8L you'd have something on your hands. but again...$$$$$
7. Oil pan design. The oil pan is un-baffled and numerous proteges have met their end taking turns (which is ironically what they do best). The oil sloshes away from the pick up and WHAM, engine gone. I know of several people PERSONALLY that it's happened to.
I personally worry about the oil issue. Does anyone make a baffled pan or do-it-yourself baffles?
October-20th-2005, 12:45 AM
#30
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Central Pennyslvania
Posts: 8
Could someone explain how the ZM is an evolution of the B6. I was trying to explain to the owner what his options were and point out the plusses and minuses of different engines and engine management systems. Having an friends with an assortment of MX and RX vehicles made this much easier. To my understanding the switch to an S-VT head is the biggest "evolution". Is there something I don't know that a few of you could enlighten me with?