centsless

Hello,

Just want to know what damage, if any, that would happen if i were to remove the thermostat in the car and keep running. I've done this before with one of my grandam when i started having a cooling probelm and it ran the engine very very cool.

any thoughts?

Roddimus Prime

no damage but it may very well through a CEL and take a good bit longer to warm up.....but nothing I'd worry about.

Another neat thing to look into is having your local auto parts store get you a 160* or colder T-stat. I think our stock t-stat is 190*

If you're looking to upgrade your cooling system to make it run cooler allow me to make some suggestions:

1. A bottle of Redline Water Wetter. Flush the radiator and heater core and refille with 50% green anti-freeze and 50% DISTILLED WATER...should be about $2/gallon at wal-mart...may need 1.5 gallons. Add water wetter to the overflow jug after reaching proper level.

2. 160* thermostat. Opens sooner allowing the car to warm up properly but cool off sooner. Good investment for like $8.

3. Contact "Phantom cruiser" and ask her for replacment FAAL fans. She swears by them and apperntly 1 of these slim fans blows harder than both stock fans and takes up less than half the space. Looks great also.

4. Remove weatherstripping from back/bottom of open hood. This creates about a 1" gap at the back of the engine bay that should allow hot air to escape the engine bay. Free mod, can't beat it.

5. If you're serious about cooling and don't mind spending some coin.....Intercooler sprayer mounted to spray the radiator. I bet you could watch the tem guage drop when spraying!!

Hope that helps. these are some tricks I used on my SHO race car. It was VERY heat sensative and dropping 20*'s under the hood felt like it picked up 20hp....notthe case for every car though.

Racing Beat

I did the same to my VR6 Jetta, that thing was a volcano under a hood...

Phantom Cruiser

FAL fans come in your choice of red, blue, yellow, or black...get em while they're hot so that you can be cool!

pm me for details.

Roddimus Prime

cant pm fast enough!!

GNO

The thermostat also serves as an orifice to slow down fluid flow and increase pressure. If the coolant flows too quickly, it doesn't have enough time to dissipate heat in the radiator. Also, by maintaining higher pressure, the boiling point of the coolant increases which will decrease the chance of air pockets forming in the coolant system.

By running the engine below the specified operating temps the engine experiences more wear. The coolant passages run along the cylinder walls and throughout the head. By decreasing the coolant temp, the difference in temperature in the cross-section between increase. . . creating more stress on the material. Performance will increase because of the denser intake charge and ability to run more timing advance due to the decreased possibility of detonation, so there is a trade off.

Personally, I like to keep under-hood temps down using other methods and only do a slight drop in thermostat temps. Things like upgrading the fans, radiator, heat shields on the intake, and thermal coating or wrapping the headers.

Roddimus Prime

you think from a 190* to a 160* is too much. I've never noticed any problems.

GNO

A friend of mine worked for Volvo and he sent me the results of some engine wear tests they ran using different temp t-stats. The results from the 160° stat showed close to 2x the amount of wear that the 190° (195°?) had. I haven't corresponded with him in over 5 years, and no longer have the report, but it did leave a bit of an impact on me.

As you know, modern engines have very little wear. So even if you double the amount of wear, it will not be a significant amount. I doubt my concern is worth sweating over, however, it helps to be well informed. I just wanted to relay some of the downsides. . . afterall, that is what was asked in the initial post. I strongly stand against running with the t-stat completely out.

When I run the GTP at the track, I use a 160°. However, for daily driving, I use the stock setting. I tore apart my motor this winter and it showed very little wear. Last month, I tore apart a friend's motor with less than half the miles on it. . . he used a 160° full-time. There were many other factors involved, but his motor showed more signs of wear than mine. Mine did not have a ridge at the top of the stroke where his did. There was still cross-hatching on my cylinder walls, none on his. . . . and so on.

Roddimus Prime

wow, thats good info. I have never heard of this and I'm intrigued. I'm going to read up more about this. Thanks GNO.

Rusty

I think you risk not getting the oil hot enough, especially in cool weather. That would certainly cause more wear. I had the thermostat out of a fairly high HP 350 4-bolt chevy one chilly night and threw a rod. Don't know for sure what caused it, but I do know the engine otherwise had adequate oiling. Without the thermostat though, the oil pressure never came as far down as when fully warmed up with the thermostat.

rustychops41

Don't be suprised if it's hard to actually "see" a difference in the gauge readings. Aren't all modern temp/oil pressure gauges electronically "dampened" to prevent customers from comparing each others cars and then complaining to the dealer that "his car has more oil pressure/runs cooler than mine" etc etc. Just a thought. . .

Roddimus Prime

makes sense rusty

centsless

o.k, that was some good info, now i have to think a bit more and reserach a little more to see if thats exactly what i want to do (change to a 160 thermo).
another question on cooling, has any one of you install an oil cooler in any protege's?.

Roddimus Prime

the MSP's come factory with an oil cooler. these are good to use if you plan on running hard or high rpm's for an extended period of time.

kcidmil

GNO has some good points, but there's one he forgot. In a engine with aluminum pistons. The lower temp might not allow the piston to fully expand. Causing higher than normal blowby. Not noticable for awhile. But will eventually fry your rings.