Tom Slick

i'll add a little fuel to the fire.
what part inside your engine wears any significant amount and is ferous? that is why there is no magnets in the engine's oil pan. there are magnets in the tranny because there are lots of steel and iron partsthat wear. gears, roller bearings...
although a mag plug doesn't cost much, and it certainly won't cost much, don't trick yourself into thinking that it was an engineering oversight and you are going to add life to your engine.

Mach 1

Thats wonderful, but why does the magnet come out covered in metal particles then?

and most cars dont have tranny magnets from the factory in my experience. I had a Ford mustang and a Lincoln Mark VII, both with identical transmissions, and the Lincoln had magnets in the pan, and the mustang didnt. I guess thats what you get for the extra $15K purchase price.

kcbhiw

I guess I'd have to see it to beleive it. If an engine spun off that much metal in 3000-5000 miles, I'd say you have a problem.


Most cranks, bearings, and rings are typically conmprised of steel (and wears). I'm not quite sure what the Pro's block is cast from, but my Escort has a steel block.

Tom Slick

***WARNING*** novel approaching

cranks are made of steel, but over the lifespan of your engine they will only wear .001" or .002" off the diameter, so i'd say they would give you an undetectable (without special equipment) amount of magnetic material during an oil change.
plain or babbet bearings used in the engine may have a steel backing but the part that wearing surface is copper, brass, or lead (or a mix) none of those are magnetic. ball or roller bearing, which are made of steel are not used in normal automotive engines.
that leaves the rings and block. they last, lets say 250,000 miles, and over that time each bore and rings wear a total of .015". that means that at 3000 miles, when you change your oil and inspect that fancy plug, each bore and ring set has worn .00018" (on average) since the last time you inspected and cleaned the plug. even if you multiply that number by three rings and four cylinders you are still talking minute amounts of magnetic material in the oil.
i guess you'd get a tiny bit from the cam and rocker arms too, still minute amounts.
i don't believe all the stuff that sticks to the mag plug is entirely metal. i think their may be a minute amount of metal stuck to the magnetic, then other crap from the engine sticks to it.

one more thing to think about. if you have a magnet, either on a drain plug or wrapped around your filter, the metal is getting stuck to the magnet before it gets a chance to be filtered by the filter;
the mag plug in the oil pan is exposed to oil that has just been run through the engine but not through the filter.
oil runs from the outside of the filter to the center as it is being filtered. that means that the fresh oil and metal particles from the pan attracted to the magnet around the outside of the filter before the filter gets a chance to work.
my point being that the reason you will find (if you find) metal on your plug (or filter wrap) is because the magent never gave the filter a chance, then you find the metal and give the magnet all the credit for something the filter would have done anyway.

with all that being said, magnet gizmos are cheap, if it gives you warm fuzzies to install them on your car, then don't listen to some stranger like me spouting off on the internet, and install them on your car.

herkalees

Ha ha ha, screw the oil filter, I wanna know more about sticking magnets inside cows! That's the funniest crap I've heard in a while.

Sir Nuke

Tom, if you don't believe it...don't....and just ignore the thread....BUT....if you think we are all full of it, and want to prove it.......spend a buck and a half and buy a drain plut with a magnet on it...and see for yourself that your engine DOES have metalic particles floating around in the oil.....

herkalees, cows are known to eat ALL SORTS OF CRAP that is laying in a field...damn near as bad as goats....and in what they will put in their mouths you will find nails and old pieces of wire and all kinds of crap laying around a pasture....the magnets for one reason or another do not pass through their system...and will attract and collect the ferous objects and keep them in the cows stomach till they are disolved by the gastric juices....or untill the cow passes away....but that way the nasties in there won't harm the cows intestinal tract as its attempted to pass those nasty sharp objects.....

:{D

Mach 1

I agree with the magnet on the filter attracting stuff before the filter has a chance to do its job, but the magnet in the pan drain plug is a very small (not very powerful) magnet that I dont belive would pull anything out of the oil the when the engine is running and the oil circulating. I think it gathers most of its particles when your engine is not running and the particles are calmly floating in the oil that is left in the pan, then they tend to graviate to the magnet if they are in the area of it. Its not going to keep the filter from having a shot at the particles first. it might grab some stuff that would have ended up in the filter eventually though...if they hit the area of the magnet before they get to pass through the filter

Tom Slick

why ignore it? why even have any discussion then? if we all agreed and said "hell yeah that's a great idea" to everything that comes along what good would this forum be? we'd all sport the same big wings, Z3 fender vents, 6" exhaust tips.... but we don't becuase we all have diferent opinions and we express them.

i'm just stirring up the thought process instead of passively agreeing. my arguement against it is just as valid as the agruements for, neither of us have any true evidence, so we only speak in theories. i'm not getting mad, fired up, or trying to put anyone down, i respect everyone's opinion, i just respectfully disagree.

have you ever seen any car, truck, boat, tractor, or any other machine that has any type of magnetic filtering device in it's engine? even very expensive machinery doesn't have magnets in the engine. do you think that maybe the engineers haven't discovered magnets? maybe they are trying to save $2 on a $75,000 machine? they spend how many thousands of $$ on figuring out the most complicated and restrictive intake system for our engines possible but they don't spend $2 on a magnetic drain plug from the factory that would extend the life of the engine? they install expensive high quality filters instead. they do install them in the transmissions though, because there is magnetic particles in there and the factory knows it.

the reason i have so much to say on this subject is that i have had this exact same arguement online before. but that time i was in your shoes, saying that it couldn't hurt, so why not do it. then after reading what the other guy wrote i began to agree with him because he made more sense then i did.

Tom Slick

if you are going to use that reasoning then why not install the 50 cent part and charge 1 dollar more on the cost of the car? same profit, happy customers because the have magnetic drain plugs.

they don't install them because there is no need for them. i will say it again, they do install them in the tranny though, because they feel the tranny needs them. acording to your logic they couls have made another million just by leaving them out of the tranny.

Mach 1

Am I missing something here? Does every car with an automatic tranny have a magnet installed in it? I did not think that was common.

Anyway, marketing a car based on having a magnetic drain plug is as ridiculous as your logic in this thread. The average consumer doesnt want to or wouldnt understand the reason for it anyway.

Like someone said, a $1.00 plug X millions of cars equals millions of dollars saved. probably the same reason there isnt a drain plug on the tranny.

No one ever in this thread said "you need one", and thats where your logic sucks.

It is a good idea, and if you install one, you will collect particles on it. Those are the facts. Nothing more, nothing less.

I would suggest that manufactures put magnets in auto trannys (if this is even true, most cars dont have them there to the best of my knowledge) because they do collect more stuff there and automatic trannys dont live as long as an engine before an overhaul. So the manufacture wants to extend transmission overhaul if possible. Also, people dont change thier transmission oil like they should. Most people change thier engine oil fairly regulary, but most people do not change thier tranny oil regulary, and auto manufactures know this.

The engine will last a long time without the additional expense of them installing factory magnets in the drain plugs, and just maybe they dont want them to last any longer than they do, for obvious reasons of profits on replacement parts.

Yeah, you dont need a magnet in the engine, you also dont need a magnet in the tranny, but its a good idea. You dont need to wash your car ever either, but its a good idea to prolong the looks and repel corrosion.

Dont turn this into something it isnt, like a huge debate over weather you NEED a magnet in the engine.

Sir Nuke

As a matter of fact Tom...I have....VERY EXPENSIVE machinery as well....machinery what I have operated for many years.....the power production units I have been operating for over 25 years have magnets in their lubricating oil systems....directly in their strainers/filters....and YES we find particles on them all the time....very fine particles...and fewer as time goes by...but still there are particles there...and any and all contaminents that you can remove from your lube oil system, regardless of whether or not its a multimillion dollar electircal power generator...or your engine in your car...its going to extend its life....and if it even extended it 1000 miles over the life of the car....be that 100000 or 200000 or even 300000 miles.....for the price....you can't beat it.....

for many years before I turned my interest to Mazda....I built and hotrodded air cooled VW's....and quite sucessfully I might add. I would always attach a two inch long by 1/2 inch square bar magnet to the pickup tube for the oil pump....and EVERY time I opened up the sump...which was every 5000 miles.....the magnet was removed and CLEANED of all the very fine particles that would have otherwise been running around the inside of my engine....

SO...YES I DO HAVE EVIDENCE.....there is no way you can convince me that allowing metalic particles to circulate around inside an engine is not going to be detrimental in the long run.

Mach 1

Now that someone else has mentioned it, I also have worked on VERY expensive machinery that had magnets installed in its system. although they werent engines, they were aircraft hydraulic systems, pumps, and aircraft CSD's (constand speed drive) (they connect to the jet engine and turn the accessories at a constant speed, although the speed of the engine is varying greatly)

And aircraft parts are the most expensive parts out here.

Your argument is poor Tom, very poor........

Sir Nuke

thank you Mach1....I too have a good friend that was a jet engine mechanic in the service and he told me their systems had them too...

HOWEVER....I would like to disagree with ONE point you mentioned....that "aircraft parts are the most expensive parts out there".....lol no offence...but when you tag NUCLEAR GRADE on ANYTHING.....and I mean ANYTHING...you might as well put a 50X to 100X in front of the price of it in any other market...lol. The damn suppliers have us commin and goin! :{D

midnightblue97

Just adding my 2 cents here.
Mach 1, I used to work in a couple garages, I could be wrong but I don't remember ever NOT seeing a magnet in a trans pan. But not to call b.s. on you, I don't remember everything, so maybe there are some that didn't have them, I just don't remember them. I figured that most tranny's would have them. But if they don't they don't.

For whoever else. The course I'm taking at my school includes some maintenance, and repairs on some very expensive machines with lots of hydraulics involved in them. I don't know for sure, if they were there right from the factory, but there are magnetic sleeves around the oil filters and some of the hydraulic lines.
I know that a tiny assed particle inside an engine may not be completely detrimental to its operation, but in a hydraulic system, it can mean alot more.

Mach 1

Well, Im sure there are more expensive things in the world, but I have been working on some very expensive, top technology military combat aircraft, and the parts are ridicuously expensive. When one aircraft costs over 200 million, the parts can tend to be very high also.

Drives me crazy at work, I will be ordering a hydraulic servo valve/actuator and the price will be something insane, like $450,000, and Im thinking, hmmmmmmmmm.....I could buy quite a nice collection of cars for the price of one part on this thing...