Justifying the Cost
May-14th-2003, 08:24 AM
#1
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Justifying the Cost
Ok, I want a turbo setup just like a lot of folks here, but I what to justify the cost. I don't want a new car, my's only 5 months old. The FM Protege Turbo kit is ~$3500. My main question is what would be the power difference between the turbo kit and this setup:
J-SPEC Intake Manifold
J-SPEC Intake Cams
Mazdaspeed Exhaust Cams
Bosel or AWR Header
RB Cat Back Exhaust (Already got)
AEM Short Ram Air (Already got)
Either way I would get the Mazdaspeed oil coolier, nice cold engine. I know TheMAN was seeing 111 whp on his dyno with a similar setup, but he didn't have a new header, going turbo. And it seems the general thought is that the primary cat is the power steeler. So knowing this, what would be the difference between the two setups? The turbo is twice as expensive, will you get twice the whp without advancing the timeing or going over 4-6 psi? I general thought is that if the 2nd setup gives my between 1/3 and 1/2 as much power, that might be better, but if all I'm going to get is 115-120 whp, I think it's better to go turbo. What's your thoughts and is their anything else you would add to the 2nd setup to get more power besides higher comp. pistons, too much work I think.
J-SPEC Intake Manifold
J-SPEC Intake Cams
Mazdaspeed Exhaust Cams
Bosel or AWR Header
RB Cat Back Exhaust (Already got)
AEM Short Ram Air (Already got)
Either way I would get the Mazdaspeed oil coolier, nice cold engine. I know TheMAN was seeing 111 whp on his dyno with a similar setup, but he didn't have a new header, going turbo. And it seems the general thought is that the primary cat is the power steeler. So knowing this, what would be the difference between the two setups? The turbo is twice as expensive, will you get twice the whp without advancing the timeing or going over 4-6 psi? I general thought is that if the 2nd setup gives my between 1/3 and 1/2 as much power, that might be better, but if all I'm going to get is 115-120 whp, I think it's better to go turbo. What's your thoughts and is their anything else you would add to the 2nd setup to get more power besides higher comp. pistons, too much work I think.
May-14th-2003, 09:05 AM
#2
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if you want more power, and noticable power, go turbo. for the money involved, your list of parts to get will yield maybe 15hp over stock, if you're lucky, and torque won't change much. go turbo, your torque will almost double and you hp will go up by 50 or so.
May-14th-2003, 10:32 AM
#3
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Throw in a set of high compression pistons & you'll sqeeze out a lot more power with that set up. Still not as much as a turbo though. There's also no turning back (or at leas it's a pain) if you want to go turbo later.
If you can do all the work yourself you may deem it to be worth while, but if not, the turbo would be cheaper/easier/more powerfull in the long run.
-Bt
If you can do all the work yourself you may deem it to be worth while, but if not, the turbo would be cheaper/easier/more powerfull in the long run.
-Bt
May-14th-2003, 11:02 AM
#4
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Originally posted by Bluethumb
Throw in a set of high compression pistons & you'll sqeeze out a lot more power with that set up. Still not as much as a turbo though. There's also no turning back (or at leas it's a pain) if you want to go turbo later.
If you can do all the work yourself you may deem it to be worth while, but if not, the turbo would be cheaper/easier/more powerfull in the long run.
-Bt
Throw in a set of high compression pistons & you'll sqeeze out a lot more power with that set up. Still not as much as a turbo though. There's also no turning back (or at leas it's a pain) if you want to go turbo later.
If you can do all the work yourself you may deem it to be worth while, but if not, the turbo would be cheaper/easier/more powerfull in the long run.
-Bt
May-14th-2003, 11:12 AM
#5
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Originally posted by njaremka
if you want more power, and noticable power, go turbo. for the money involved, your list of parts to get will yield maybe 15hp over stock, if you're lucky, and torque won't change much. go turbo, your torque will almost double and you hp will go up by 50 or so.
if you want more power, and noticable power, go turbo. for the money involved, your list of parts to get will yield maybe 15hp over stock, if you're lucky, and torque won't change much. go turbo, your torque will almost double and you hp will go up by 50 or so.
A prototype header was also produced for the Protege. The Protege is equipped with a catalytic converter located directly under the stock exhaust manifold, which makes the production of a conventional design header rather difficult. In an attempt to discover if the 2.0 liter Protege engine responded to a "conventional" header design, a rather unorthodox looking header was fabricated to test this premise. In order to extend the header primary tubing to the desired length, the primary tubing on the prototype header was wrapped around the upper radiator hose, then routed down to the catalytic converter. This design stood little chance of making it to production, but subsequent testing confirmed our beliefs that the catalytic converter was a "power-robbing" source. This header was not included on the prototype delivered to Mazda. Further testing on a header for the Protege has not been conducted.
May-14th-2003, 11:36 AM
#6
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Originally posted by Kopp0041
15hp, that's all? Even with eliminating the first cat?
15hp, that's all? Even with eliminating the first cat?
Also, the "no turning back" remark about high-comp pistons is due to the fact that a high compression ratio (c/r) and big boost don't mix. This combo will blow your engine apart.
A high-c/r, low-boost setup can make a good, responsive street engine, but generally won't make as much ultimate power as low c/r and high boost. (Turbo junkies have been arguing for decades about which is really better, but this is a good general rule of thumb.) Using traditional turbo tuning, the Protege's stock c/r is much more boost-friendly.
May-14th-2003, 12:55 PM
#7
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Originally posted by Kopp0041
When you say there's no turning back, what are you be refering to?
When you say there's no turning back, what are you be refering to?
You'd have to change out the pistons.
I'm no expert on turbos. I don't know what kind of compression beyond the stock 9.1:1 (if any) would suit one. Maybe someone can shed a little more light on it than I, with regards to compression and how it relate to forced induction limits.
-Bt
May-14th-2003, 03:03 PM
#9
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I see. As long as I don't go high comp, I would still have a good setup for turbo at a later date. I really would like more power now, but not at the cost of the turbo, got a wedding in August. So I guess I'm considering following TheMans setup, do some FS-ZE mods now and wait to go turbo. Is the 15hp-20hp over stock? so instead of ~100whp it'd be ~120whp at best? What would happen then if you advanced the timing and went to 91 octaine?
May-14th-2003, 03:25 PM
#10
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Originally posted by Kopp0041
I really would like more power now, but not at the cost of the turbo, got a wedding in August.
I really would like more power now, but not at the cost of the turbo, got a wedding in August.
I love my wife, but trust me, most women have trouble understanding the need for $3,000 turbo kits.
May-14th-2003, 03:41 PM
#11
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Originally posted by carguycw
I love my wife, but trust me, most women have trouble understanding the need for $3,000 turbo kits.
I love my wife, but trust me, most women have trouble understanding the need for $3,000 turbo kits.
May-14th-2003, 04:42 PM
#12
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Originally posted by carguycw
Dude... you didn't say that before. You need to get the turbo NOW. Forget your financial constraints- you only have ~3 more months of financial independence left, max out all your credit cards if you have to, but get the turbo BEFORE the wedding.
I love my wife, but trust me, most women have trouble understanding the need for $3,000 turbo kits.
Dude... you didn't say that before. You need to get the turbo NOW. Forget your financial constraints- you only have ~3 more months of financial independence left, max out all your credit cards if you have to, but get the turbo BEFORE the wedding.
I love my wife, but trust me, most women have trouble understanding the need for $3,000 turbo kits.
May-14th-2003, 05:18 PM
#13
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Originally posted by Bluethumb
Never mind. Carguycw already did the job.
Thanks.
Never mind. Carguycw already did the job.
Thanks.
Anyway, on topic, get the turbo. Tuning a NA 4-cylinder is going to be more of a pain in the *** than it is worth.
May-14th-2003, 05:24 PM
#14
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I second that.
GET IT NOW! If you can.
Every time I mention something like a $3-4000.00 turbo my wife (actually a GF - bound by mortgage, not by vows), looks down at her finger and proceeds to tell me how it'd cover the cost of a ring.
-Bt
GET IT NOW! If you can.
Every time I mention something like a $3-4000.00 turbo my wife (actually a GF - bound by mortgage, not by vows), looks down at her finger and proceeds to tell me how it'd cover the cost of a ring.
-Bt
May-14th-2003, 07:38 PM
#15
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Go turbo...simple as that..
I've noticed that a lot of members here are early drivers and haven't had the pleasures of boost yet on any vehicle...to those of you who have, you'll understand what i'm about to say...
NA power is good, if you can make it...these 2.0L motors in NA form simply CAN'T. I'm sorry, I've been working on mazdas for years, and the simple fact is that these motors were never intended to see an awesome NA pull...
BOOST on the other hand is a different animal all together. You get the pull, and that "pushing you in the seat" feeling. No, the power is not as linear as NA..and this is why u don't see boosted Club racers most of the time(that and they arent allowed). Go boost, and you'll never regret, go NA..and you'll wonder y you spent so much to gain so little....
I've noticed that a lot of members here are early drivers and haven't had the pleasures of boost yet on any vehicle...to those of you who have, you'll understand what i'm about to say...
NA power is good, if you can make it...these 2.0L motors in NA form simply CAN'T. I'm sorry, I've been working on mazdas for years, and the simple fact is that these motors were never intended to see an awesome NA pull...
BOOST on the other hand is a different animal all together. You get the pull, and that "pushing you in the seat" feeling. No, the power is not as linear as NA..and this is why u don't see boosted Club racers most of the time(that and they arent allowed). Go boost, and you'll never regret, go NA..and you'll wonder y you spent so much to gain so little....