juddz

Okay, so here's the deal. I have been craving something more powerful than the Protege lately. Specifically, a Corvette. Chances are, I'm not getting one. Because, you see, I do have a sensible side. So, there is no way that my P5 is going to be as fast as that plastic sports car. Not now, not ever. But, there is a lot of untapped potential in it, as you can see from my mod list below. Cams are a given, if I keep the car. Aside from that, my dream is to someday have forced induction on the car. But the cost is SOOO prohibitive. My first choice is a Wagner kit, but that prices out at 3450.00. Ouch. Without intercooler, it's 2650.00. Better, but still expensive. And, no doubt missing some hp without a way to cool the intake charge. Anybody done a FI car for less than that? If so, what did you use, and how does it perform? I would assume it would be possible to save a few hundred on assembling your own kit, since HiBoost, Wagner, and the like price them such that each kit makes them a profit.

Roddimus Prime

hmm, well building your own turbo kit would require to fabricate your own manifold or buy someone else's, then buy a turbo, then buy piping and cut and weld it all yourself....You've also goto to worry about the most important part which is EMS....there's a LOT of variables.

In all honesty man it's very cost prohibitive to try to make your own stuff. The only reason I've been able to price the SC kits this low is because I'm basically having to build them in groups of 4-5 at a time... All in all I've spent well over $5K building my kit...now if I were just building it for myself it would be more like $4K...but still you can purchase a whole turbo kit for $3600 or so....

ShogunProtege

i have seen people piece together small turbo kits for about 1500 , someparts were used and he didnt get a the turbo, had to ebay it.. i would have to say the Fuel system would be the thing to cost the most..

Roddimus Prime

for this application the manifold and piping would be the most expensive.... these aren't honda civics...

ShogunProtege

agreed, i priced just a TSI Turbo kit Manifold and they wanted 500 just for that. Wagner watned about 300 about a year ago..

Phantom Cruiser

Just FYI...things done "cheaply" will end up costing you your engine. If you cannot afford to buy a new engine (have savings set aside) then you probably shouldn't do ANY type of FI. There are so many things to consider, engine strength vs. how much power you want out of it, running the right fuel, and most of all TUNING! Trust me, after 3 popped engines (one of them FORGED) in the Focus I am very wary of anyone who says FI can be done "cheaply".

Sorry, just my $.02 for this morning.

juddz

No shortcuts... quality parts do make a difference.

Perhaps a more prudent question would have been which FI kit offers the best value, not necessarily the cheapest price. Low prices are great, but not if you are getting something that has never been validated for performance benefit, packaging, and long-term durability. That last one is the biggest gamble, I suspect, since even the most dedicated shop doesn't have the engineering resources to do 100,000 mile shakedown tests on test vehicles. The best they can hope for is to build them long enough to have satisfied customers out there in the field. Wagner's been at it for some time, and when I asked them about their kits a year ago, I was told that they have built 100+ kits at that point. If failure with that kit was common, I am sure we would hear about it on this forum. Haven't heard one complaint yet. Perhaps this is the safest bet... I just wanted to know if there were any cheaper (equivalent) kits or methods of turbocharging these cars on the market. There are kits from Hi-Boost, etc... but nobody has ever done a comparison to see how they stack up in terms of price, performance, and durability.

Roddimus Prime

I would tend to say that the HiBoost kits have proven themselves safest and best built. I love the wagner stuff and it's real quality but the turbo header he uses is a stainless utbular style which is prone to cracking under high heat and load. Juan (Hiboost) uses a cast iron log style manifold. They don't flow better but they dont seem to ever wear out. Also, I've heard of a LOT of blown engine stories.....but NEVER have I heard of a blown HiBoost car.... I don't know how they stack up on performance sinc eI've not seen anyone I know put down a dyno or track time. I do know Juan has made several low 12s passes in his p5.

macdaddyslomo

If you want to do it cheaply, here is what you do. Buy the Manifold and downpipe from Juan at hiboost...They can be had for about $700...a good rebuilt T25 can be had from ebay for about $250...then get a good RRFPR, Vortech or BEGI, about $75-$100...buy some mandrel bends for your charge piping from JCwhitney around $100...Go to a junkyard for your intercooler...a good one off a Probe GT or MX6 GT can be had for next to nothing,maybe $25...then youll need some silicone adapters....I would estimate the whole project to run in the neighborhood of $1500 for a good reliable low boost application

Talk to goldpro...he pieced together his own kit, the orginal application was fairly inexpensive and worked pretty well, however he has reworked it and spent a bit more money on it

juddz

Very good suggestion, Macdaddyslomo. I think a low boost turbo would be the way for me to go, as I would not want the initial sticker shock of having to improve on the stock engine management. However, a low boost turbo setup can be improved upon later, once established.

Phantom Cruiser

I'm sure most of these kits in and of themselves are well built. However, kit + FS-DE = bad news from what I've seen. But you live and learn, and build up a better motor during the 'down time' and save up $$ for better (coughexpensivecough) engine management.


Heck the FS-DET from the factory doesn't seem like a very good idea...and I've never known anyone that wanted to stay at low boost for any length of time...

Phantom Cruiser

I must be psychic or something

Roddimus Prime

wow, smartest guy evar....13-16psi on stock bottom end with an MPI....just asking for trouble. If you see he said he's on his 5th engine build....5th....I learned not to go the cheap route after 1.

juddz

... without addressing the base engine items that need to be upgraded for severe boost (i.e. internals, the spark and fuel maps, fuel delivery, etc), I think it would be foolish to go much beyond 6-7psi of boost.

How do you suppose the dollar amount of five turbocharged engines, plus the cost of a Protege5, stack up against say, an Evo or Subaru WRX? Either this guy can't add, or loves Mazdas beyond the scope of reason...

kargoboy

I love MY Mazda...