Alibaba

Hi again - here's some info for the FP-DE owners:

Resently I installed the FS-ZE intake cam in my FP-DE (1.8 liter) and have now driven it for about 1,000 km, so I thougt it was time to dyno...

The 'before' setup was:

+Stock 323f 1.8 (European version of Familia with FP-DE engine - but with 9.7:1 compression ratio as standard)
+K&N induction kit

This setup produces 108 whp and 126 ft-lb.

With the FS-ZE intake cam added the car now produces 113 whp and 125 ft-lb, which was exactly what I expected: 5 hp gain traded for 1 ft-lb loss which is great, isn't it? I'd say no!

Take a look at the power graph (engine power):



I may win a max of 5 hp between 5500 and 6300rpm (where my rev limiter ended the dyno), but I lose 5 hp in the entire range from 3-4000rpm, and about 2 hp between 4-5000rpm.

I also found out that even though the engine keeps producing more power above 5700rpm the wheel power actually goes down due to increasing tranny loss.

I'm not 100% sure, but my guess is that my 0-60mph times have increased with this mod, because it has become harder to go to the rpm's where I have the added power. So, looking back on my investment I'd say that with my car setup it was not worth the ca$h. But I haven't turned bitter - just wiser


Now for the questions:

Did anyone do the same comparrison on a US spec FP-DE or FS-DE?

Would it help significantly to install the MS FS-ZE exhaust cam (which is not in the stock FS-ZE setup) or just make it worse?

And yeah, I know that I should get a better ECU, but are there really any realistic replacements?

(Turbo isn't an option - it's VERY ILLEGAL in Denmark, and we have to pass inspections every 2nd year).


I hope the info was useful...

-Carsten

Alibaba

Sorry Guys I used wrong reference data for the post above. Here's the correct data (figure above has also been corrected):

Loss between 2000 - 5300rpm approx. 2.5 hp average,
Gain between 5300 - 6300 is 0-5 hp.

The conclusion is still the same (however less severe): Power is lost in a very wide band to gain a modest increase in a narrow band from 5300 to 6300 rpm.

My biggest problems, I think, are that the rev limitter kicks in a approx. 6300 rpm (way to early) and that the tranny loss grows faster than the power ramp above 5700 rpm.

Anybody been working with minimizing tranny loss?

Again, sorry about the wrong data
Carsten

leungwingkei

I just read your post, and I found the 1.8L FP-DE makes more wheel hp and torque than the NA 2.0L FS-DE engine very interesting.

The FS-DE however has a rev limiter that kicks it around 7200rpm for me. But then it shakes violently and the pistons seem like they want to fly out.....

Btw, the 2.0L FS-DE makes around 113lb/ft torque and 103hp.

Alibaba

Yes I think it's very interesting too (from NA perspective), because I'd assume that it's much easier to get parts from UK than Japan, and it seems that the European FP-DE use some of the J-spec parts - e.g:

+Single cat exhaust
+High compression pistons (identical to those from FS-ZE but produces less compression due to the shorter stroke)
+Clear lens corner indicators

On the other hand there are drawbacks:

-different ECU? (at least the rev limiter is set much lower than on NA cars)

By the way, being a European car it's of course with manual transmisson.

Alibaba

I thought the rev limitter was part of the whole ECU-package that we seem to be stuck with unless we want to do major car surgery?

Are you saying that I can raise the rev limitter with the stock ECU?

Bets regards
Carsten

goldstar

It probably won't help too much, but on the theory that every little bit helps, you might try replacing your transmission oil with a synthetic type. To the degree that synthetic oil reduces internal transmission friction, you may get somewhat more rear wheel horsepower.

I use Red Line MT-90 in my transmission and have obtained smoother shifting (especially in colder weather), but I can't honestly say whether or not I've experienced a performance increase. I realize Red Line probably won't be available in Denmark but I'm sure you have suitable types in your area.

02 DX Millenium Red

goldstar

Correction to my last post - I meant more front wheel horsepower.

02 DX Millenium Red

Alibaba

Thanks

A good quality oil will probably help - I'll put it on the list. Is this MT-90 a 'pure' product or does it have additives like teflon or such?

I heard that teflon in the transmission oil could decrease loss by multiple hp, but I newer really believed it because the dyno I saw always went from bad to normal - never from normal to good. I saw transmission loss on a comparable car go from 35 hp to 25 hp (which is approximately what I have). Did anybody ever see better results?


best,
Carsten

goldstar

Alibaba

Red Line MT-90 is a 'pure' synthetic without teflon. Go to:
www.redlineoil.com

This site will provide a much better explanation of its benefits than I can.

02 DX Millenium Red

UCSBgeek

I think he was implying that you need a full stand alone system. Not very cheap.