gcs118

Maybe this has been thoroughly discussed at some point in time, but the search function isn't all too good anymore, so here is my question:

If I get custom intake and exhaust camshafts ground to much more aggressive specs than the J-Spec ones, what else must I upgrade? In this thread here Edwin mentions that the J-spec ones are almost too aggressive on our cars. Would upgrading the valve springs/retainers permit the more aggressive camshafts? If so, would the stock ECU work fine with the new cams, or would stand alone be in the near future? My research in this area has only just begun, suggestions and ideas are welcome. I intend to contact camshaft manufacturers to talk about what I want and what I should do...any one in particular recommended?

Thanks for all the help guys!

PS - My car is NA, I don't wanna hear how aggressive cams don't go well with turbo!

gcs118

Is there anyone like that who knows all about the FS-DE engine? If I spend the money, I don't want it to be wasted and end up with bent valves, broken pistons, etc.

MazdaSpeed0020

GCS, what are you planning on doing to your car that you will want such aggresive cams? I have read that too aggressive cams really mess with the cars drivability, ie. an everyday driver. Just curious to see what you have planned.

gcs118

The car right now is a daily driver, but after I put my Camry back together that might take over. If not, I'd just want the cams for better performance. I don't want all-out racing camshafts, just more aggressive than J-spec, as 5WHP seems too little. But eventually I might auto-cross my car if I find events around here. I'm just trying to find good ways to build up some NA power without rebuilding the entire engine.

Installshield

although they don't give a very impressive gain like you mentioned, they will help to move the power band up slightly and promote a stronger pull to redline, which makes it much more fun to drive altogether. I have heard it feels like a lot more of a gain than 5whp...

gcs118

I have heard that also, but if I get more aggressive cams with a better gain, it seems to me it would be even more fun to drive

Farsyde

cams are a give and take relationship. With the VVT setup on most modern cars they work to allow deceent low, mid, and high RPM performance and gas mileage. If you get aggresive cams, you shift the performance in favor of higher RPMs. However, this boggs down the lower RPMs and can make your car much less efficient (lower gas mileage, much rougher idle) since you are tuning the engine to a setup where it will run in the high RPM's more often (autoX, road raceing, etc). However there are acceptable limits. Since more engines are much more efficient at breathing at higher RPM's you make gains in performance.

Basically it comes down to what are you gonna be doin with the car with new cams. If you are going to be at WOT often then aggresive cams are a good tradeoff for practicality. However, if you are just looking for a boost in overall performance, you're not gonna get it with cams alone.

gcs118

With the new cams I will be driving my car like normal, and maybe in the future auto-x it. I know cams alone won't give me awesome performance, but I have to start somewhere. You have any good ideas to build up NA performance? If so, I'd love to hear them and get some new ideas flowing for me.

Gregersonsalvag

Wow the only cams you guys got get up to 5whp. If you are gonna do cams consider doing a pnp and bump your compression up to 10:1 this should give you a 25-40hp gain depending on the cams you choose.

Also if you want to play and see what kind of numbers you can get out of different cams try this program http://www.dumpspace.net/OtherFiles/Dyno2000.zip

I personally use a .405 lift intake cam and looking to up to a .350 exhuast cam. If you are serious about getting basic cams made for your cars look into Gude they might be able to make you something along the lines of a .420 intake and .400 exhaust. Also if you want to get a custom set of cams be willing to spend about 800 to a grand for a set of cams.

Oh yeah I don't own a protege I own a zx2 which basically uses the same tranny I dunno about the engine though. I've seen em both they look similar but I'd have to line em up to see if they'd fit.

gcs118

If I had the money, believe my I'd already have a port and polished head, stand alone, and high compression pistons. About the Dyno2000 program, what exactly is it?

Gregersonsalvag

It basically allows you to get an idea of what your cams an motor can produce as far as HP goes to the flywheel. The program is usually right within 10hp. This way you can get an idea of how much HP you will get if you do a Race PNP Racing single plane intake manifold, Higher compression and so on. All you need to start are the specs on your current engine things like bore&stroke valve sizes, valve lift and such. You should be able to get the information from your chiltons manual if you have one.

TrexPro5

I am probably wrong here but if you got a port and polish done to your head wouldnt you be lowering your compression ratio since you are taking material out of the combustion chamber? or are you talking about putting high comp. pistons in?

GCS, There are a lot of things you can do to make the car faster. FS-ZE intake manifold full ported and polished, if you are feeling frisky I would get it extrude honed as well, is where I would start. Seems like a good investment. As far as cams go, back in the day we had discussions about whether or not running both the FS-ZE intake and exhaust cam would mess with your idle. A LOT of people are running both cams and don't seem to have a problem. I would, however be careful about putting a more agressive cam in the 2.0l w/o doing some ECU tuning.

Im sure somebody will say it, but the BEST hp for money ratio, maybe not the best way to get HP, but n2o is always an option.

Id look into upgrading your fuel system at some point as well.

Tornado

I recently put the J-Spec cams in my Protege 5. I must say I was expecting huge results, and powering down the road like nothing else on 4 wheels

My impressions are the opposite. I do feel like I've gained some horespower but mainly throughout the RPM band. At WOT you definetly feel a stronger pull towards redline. I feel much more comfortable pushing the revs over 5000 now. It always used to feel like there wasn't much benefit to pushing much beyond 5000. I could tell I wasn't getting much additional benefit. With the cams in it's a pleasure to push it harder. The car seems smoother, and more consitent throughout.

I'm not sure where I go from here with my performance modifcations but I would suggest a cam swap to anyone if they are looking for one more piece of their performance puzzle.

gcs118

The FS-ZE intake manifold sells for around $530+shipping I believe, plus the extra cost of labor to extrude/hone it and all that good stuff. Would the results really justify the cost? I was under the impression it wouldn't do all too much for me. And the more and more I read, it looks like I'll have to get stand alone engine management if I want to do any internal modifications.

I'm definitely never going to get N2O or any forced induction ever on my Protege, just not a big fan of F/I. If I stay N/A and if I do get engine management, I wouldn't need to upgrade the fuel system then, would I? I've heard the stock system is capable of handling almost whatever I'd call for.

Gregersonsalvag

Well a header combined with those cams would probably produce results that you are looking for. I know when I installed my header it made a huge difference ontop of my cam. Kinda like the turbo kicking in above 5k.



IF you want to do nos look into starting out with a 25 shot and work your way up. I'm not sure on the maxium HP numbers these cars can handle. But it should be in the range of about 200-230hp before you need internal work.

I'd personally get .405 cams Race PNP oversized valves and 4-1 headers keep the cats get a custom burned chip and you'd be running the same times as the mazdaspeed turbo version. You'd have a slightly rough idle but it wont be bad. Should cost you all about 3k if you do the labor yourself.