2.0 Engine.
December-3rd-2002, 01:48 AM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: WA
Posts: 383
2.0 Engine.
Our P5 has a 2.0 engine with 130hp.
The new Corolla has a 1.8 engine and also 130hp.
Since both generate the same hp, are there any advantage for using a 2.0 engine instead of a 1.8?
The new Corolla has a 1.8 engine and also 130hp.
Since both generate the same hp, are there any advantage for using a 2.0 engine instead of a 1.8?
December-3rd-2002, 12:57 PM
#6
Demands Perfection
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 344
Better Fuel Economy
I've used the Corolla engine before as evidence that, with all due respect, the FS-DE engine is outclassed and outdated in nearly every way by other mainstream Japanese auto makers. Supportive comparative points, Corolla to Protege engine:
The Protege’s engine is noisier
It’s less efficient (Corolla provides identical performance yet delivers **40+ MPG**)
It’s heavier (i.e. made of iron)
Mazda surely knows that the FS-DE is simply a dated engine design, and they’re going to drop its *** as soon as the new replacement for the Protege is released (the Mazda3?). What I wish, personally, is that they would drop this comparatively lousy engine NOW and put in the new MZR’s that are in the Mazda6. No one could complain about that!! 160 HP in a Protege? Can you imagine that? And still maintain the same fuel economy that we're getting with the FS-DE? THAT’S what I’m talking about!
Alas, however, that will never happen. That would surely undercut M6 sales, which Mazda is depending on to save their ***. I think when the time comes Mazda will (hopefully) put in the 1.5 liter MZR engine into the Protege replacement-- As long as they don't shove in the Focus' engine we'll be okay, I think.
The Protege’s engine is noisier
It’s less efficient (Corolla provides identical performance yet delivers **40+ MPG**)
It’s heavier (i.e. made of iron)
Mazda surely knows that the FS-DE is simply a dated engine design, and they’re going to drop its *** as soon as the new replacement for the Protege is released (the Mazda3?). What I wish, personally, is that they would drop this comparatively lousy engine NOW and put in the new MZR’s that are in the Mazda6. No one could complain about that!! 160 HP in a Protege? Can you imagine that? And still maintain the same fuel economy that we're getting with the FS-DE? THAT’S what I’m talking about!
Alas, however, that will never happen. That would surely undercut M6 sales, which Mazda is depending on to save their ***. I think when the time comes Mazda will (hopefully) put in the 1.5 liter MZR engine into the Protege replacement-- As long as they don't shove in the Focus' engine we'll be okay, I think.
December-3rd-2002, 02:13 PM
#8
Protege Enthusiast
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 112
Originally posted by bougha
1.8L Toyota has 170 Nm torque @4200rpm and 2.0L Mazda has 171 Nm torque @ 4500rpm so no difference.
1.8L Toyota has 170 Nm torque @4200rpm and 2.0L Mazda has 171 Nm torque @ 4500rpm so no difference.
December-3rd-2002, 02:56 PM
#9
WiCky=))
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 883
Well because if you put that in the Protege, the Protege would be much more expensive.
. And did you even look at the Protege's decibal reading compare to the competition? It idles quieter, cruises quieter and coasts quieter than the Corolla's Objectively, that's what I find when sitting in my gf's Corolla.
What do you actually base your posts on? Because Lexus is the luxury arm of Toyota so Lexus being renowned for their quiet engines also means Toyota has quiet engines too?
When did a Lexus start using a 1.8L engine I didn't know about?
An iron engine block usually mean heavier heavier but also stronger blocks, that are great for turboing.
The M3 has an iron engine block too, hence it is a outdated and outclassed engine?
. And did you even look at the Protege's decibal reading compare to the competition? It idles quieter, cruises quieter and coasts quieter than the Corolla's Objectively, that's what I find when sitting in my gf's Corolla. What do you actually base your posts on? Because Lexus is the luxury arm of Toyota so Lexus being renowned for their quiet engines also means Toyota has quiet engines too?
When did a Lexus start using a 1.8L engine I didn't know about?
An iron engine block usually mean heavier heavier but also stronger blocks, that are great for turboing.
The M3 has an iron engine block too, hence it is a outdated and outclassed engine?
December-3rd-2002, 02:58 PM
#10
Demands Perfection
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 344
MZR Characteristics
The new MZR engines from Mazda incorporate variable valve timing, thus increasing power and efficiency across the entire engine operating range. Honda's done this for years, popularly known as VTEC.
In addition to greater efficiency, the new MZR engines are balanced for more quiet, smooth operation.
The MZR's are also aluminum; a far cry from the old-*** iron blocks (friggin') STILL used in the FS-DE's, etc. in ALL Proteges.
To quote Yoda from The Empire Strikes Back, in reference to iron and NO valve variances in Protege engines: "That, is why you fail..."
The FS-DE's and all variances before it are simply too old to realistically compete compared to Nissan, Honda, and Toyota. It's still a reliable engine, and, to their credit, Mazda's done all they can to squeeze life out of it, but the bottom line is it's just too old to be taken seriously anymore, and I believe it doesn't serve the Protege well based thereon. Mazda's small car offering no longer competes in modern engine design compared to the other big 3 Japanese auto makers, and they need to catch up.
*Addendum*
leungwingkei, my bet is your girlfriend doesn't have the newest Corolla. The old one, indeed, represents older technology and it IS noisier, at idle, than the FS-DE. That doesn't hold true to the new Corolla, however. That's the one I was talking about. New Corolla's engine is superior to the Protege's in many ways.
And, regarding iron block engine design, it IS outdated. If it wasn't outdated, why would basically ALL mainstream Japanese auto makers be going to all aluminum engines? Because the're inherently more efficient.
Turbos? Maybe theoretically an iron block is stronger, but how many Civics do you think have been turboed out with their aluminum engines? I don't personally think iron or aluminum in that instance makes any difference.
In addition to greater efficiency, the new MZR engines are balanced for more quiet, smooth operation.
The MZR's are also aluminum; a far cry from the old-*** iron blocks (friggin') STILL used in the FS-DE's, etc. in ALL Proteges.
To quote Yoda from The Empire Strikes Back, in reference to iron and NO valve variances in Protege engines: "That, is why you fail..."
The FS-DE's and all variances before it are simply too old to realistically compete compared to Nissan, Honda, and Toyota. It's still a reliable engine, and, to their credit, Mazda's done all they can to squeeze life out of it, but the bottom line is it's just too old to be taken seriously anymore, and I believe it doesn't serve the Protege well based thereon. Mazda's small car offering no longer competes in modern engine design compared to the other big 3 Japanese auto makers, and they need to catch up.
*Addendum*
leungwingkei, my bet is your girlfriend doesn't have the newest Corolla. The old one, indeed, represents older technology and it IS noisier, at idle, than the FS-DE. That doesn't hold true to the new Corolla, however. That's the one I was talking about. New Corolla's engine is superior to the Protege's in many ways.
And, regarding iron block engine design, it IS outdated. If it wasn't outdated, why would basically ALL mainstream Japanese auto makers be going to all aluminum engines? Because the're inherently more efficient.
Turbos? Maybe theoretically an iron block is stronger, but how many Civics do you think have been turboed out with their aluminum engines? I don't personally think iron or aluminum in that instance makes any difference.
Last edited by ProtegeMaster; December-3rd-2002 at 03:36 PM.
December-3rd-2002, 04:35 PM
#11
WiCky=))
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 883
Nono my gf has a new 2003 Corolla S.
Iron blocks are no less ineffiecient than aluminum ones, why does a M3 use an iron block? Lighter, yes, More INHERENTLY efficient, how so?
In regards to turbo/supercharged Hondas, many of them have blown their engine apart from even light turbocharging and supercharging applications, due to their thinner wall design. Iron have stronger tolerances from boost pressures.
As for the old Corolla's 1ZZ-FE being noisier at idle than the Mazda' s FS-DE, that is true. At the new and improved 1ZZ-FE with 5 extra hp debuting in the new 2003 Corolla ALSO is noisier at idle than the FS-DE from what CD recorded in their 10 vehicle comparion test in the November 2002 isssue. Check for yourself if in doubt of my claims.
I am however in doubt of yours, as I had just proven. You seem to know nothing of cars, and you try to mislead people on the Protege although most of your statements have nothing to back them up.
I don't get it, you a Protege yourself, and maybe you hate it then fine, keep it to yourself. People come to these boards for information on new car purchases, and it's people like you that dissude them using, well nothing but talk. Next time please back up your facts before you post them, or at least make it clear it is opinion.
Thanks.
Iron blocks are no less ineffiecient than aluminum ones, why does a M3 use an iron block? Lighter, yes, More INHERENTLY efficient, how so?
In regards to turbo/supercharged Hondas, many of them have blown their engine apart from even light turbocharging and supercharging applications, due to their thinner wall design. Iron have stronger tolerances from boost pressures.
As for the old Corolla's 1ZZ-FE being noisier at idle than the Mazda' s FS-DE, that is true. At the new and improved 1ZZ-FE with 5 extra hp debuting in the new 2003 Corolla ALSO is noisier at idle than the FS-DE from what CD recorded in their 10 vehicle comparion test in the November 2002 isssue. Check for yourself if in doubt of my claims.
I am however in doubt of yours, as I had just proven. You seem to know nothing of cars, and you try to mislead people on the Protege although most of your statements have nothing to back them up.
I don't get it, you a Protege yourself, and maybe you hate it then fine, keep it to yourself. People come to these boards for information on new car purchases, and it's people like you that dissude them using, well nothing but talk. Next time please back up your facts before you post them, or at least make it clear it is opinion.
Thanks.
Last edited by leungwingkei; December-3rd-2002 at 04:48 PM.
December-3rd-2002, 05:52 PM
#12
Demands Perfection
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 344
Here's the definition of Inherently more efficient: All other things being equal, put an all aluminum engine in a car and then shove an iron block engine in an identical car. Guess which vehicle will render better fuel economy? Take a wild guess! My comments in that regard are spot on. More weight equals greater fuel consumption, and I am irrefutably correct.
I'm quite familiar with the Car And Driver article you've mentioned, at least the online version. In it I find no reference whatsoever to engine idle sound records, but in any event, it would be ill advised for you to attempt din comparisons, '03 Corolla to '03 Protege. You know which car will win. Protege is easily among the noisiest cars in the small car class; especially amongst mainstream Japanese auto makers.
You can love the FS-DE if you wish, but it's not sticking around in ANY Mazda vehicle after this generation Protege is replaced. If iron was indeed so wonderful, as you claim, there would be no need to replace it, would there. I think not. Perhaps your expertise is needed at Mazda, as they obviously don't appreciate the merits of iron, as does not Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Lexus, Infinity, Acura, Audi, and on and on and on. Persuade them to keep the beloved iron block engine design if it indeed is so wonderful.
This is rendered with total respect for your opinion, but that opinion is not shared by auto makers for the bulk of modern engine designs, and that's what I'm forwarding-- Even if I, "seem to know nothing of cars, and try to mislead people on the Protege although most of your statements have nothing to back them up.". Quite. I'm only backed up by trends of the entire auto industry, with ALL the major Japanese auto makers going to aluminum.
Damn, I'm such an idiot!
I'm quite familiar with the Car And Driver article you've mentioned, at least the online version. In it I find no reference whatsoever to engine idle sound records, but in any event, it would be ill advised for you to attempt din comparisons, '03 Corolla to '03 Protege. You know which car will win. Protege is easily among the noisiest cars in the small car class; especially amongst mainstream Japanese auto makers.
You can love the FS-DE if you wish, but it's not sticking around in ANY Mazda vehicle after this generation Protege is replaced. If iron was indeed so wonderful, as you claim, there would be no need to replace it, would there. I think not. Perhaps your expertise is needed at Mazda, as they obviously don't appreciate the merits of iron, as does not Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Lexus, Infinity, Acura, Audi, and on and on and on. Persuade them to keep the beloved iron block engine design if it indeed is so wonderful.
This is rendered with total respect for your opinion, but that opinion is not shared by auto makers for the bulk of modern engine designs, and that's what I'm forwarding-- Even if I, "seem to know nothing of cars, and try to mislead people on the Protege although most of your statements have nothing to back them up.". Quite. I'm only backed up by trends of the entire auto industry, with ALL the major Japanese auto makers going to aluminum.
Damn, I'm such an idiot!
December-3rd-2002, 10:21 PM
#13
I Can Be Teh W1N!!!!
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,870
Originally posted by GSweetZ
generally... larger engine means more torque..
kinda like the old saying..."there no replacement for displacement"
generally... larger engine means more torque..
kinda like the old saying..."there no replacement for displacement"
"Technology is the dirty substitute for cubic inches"
December-4th-2002, 03:51 PM
#14
2002 RX-7 Spirit 'R'
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 872
well I don't really care about noise..
I love the sound of the engine revving.....I love revving the engine...
also my FP-DE engine creates more power at the high end of the power range...
the FS-DE creates more power than my FP-DE at the lower end of the power range....so it gives me more of an excuse for revving my engine hehe
the sound of engines revving give me a nice high...or could it be the fumes from all the gas being combusted...hehe
I love the sound of engines yay!!!
I love the sound of the engine revving.....I love revving the engine...
also my FP-DE engine creates more power at the high end of the power range...
the FS-DE creates more power than my FP-DE at the lower end of the power range....so it gives me more of an excuse for revving my engine hehe
the sound of engines revving give me a nice high...or could it be the fumes from all the gas being combusted...hehe
I love the sound of engines yay!!!
December-4th-2002, 07:24 PM
#15
Moderator/ Pocket Tuner
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Tampa,Fl
Posts: 4,150
actually regarding engines in the Mazda3..The 2.4L is going to be the premium engine...so my question is what will be the lesser engine that goes in DX models??? maybe the FS-DE will live on.....regarding aluminum vs iron...the only reason Mazda hasnt gone to all aluminum blocks in ALL their cars is because iron is CHEAPER!!....the bottom line is the almighty dollar...not strenght or fuel economy...now if the aluminum block will help them enough in fuel economy to sell more cars or help to meet EPA standards then they switch...they dont switch just cause it makes them look more high tech or enviromentally conscious(sp?)