ManuelGz

Hello, I was wondering if some one could tell me if there is a difference in spring rates for the Protege Lx and the 323 hatchback. The reason I'm asking is because I recently swaped the engine in my 1990 323 hatchback for the Protege LX DOHC. So after the swap the car does not handle the same, I have to take the corners slower, other wise the car will go straigth !!

I replaced all 4 struts with SensaTrac Monroe, But still doing the same. I also have a upper strut bar, and before the swap the car used to handle really nice, even with bad shocks.
I already have the front springs from the Protege LX but I wanted to make sure that replacing them will fix this problem.

Here is a link to some pics of my project.

http://www.geocities.com/manuelgdz/index.html

http://www.geocities.com/manuelgdz/engine.html

Any help please?

Thanks

Eric F

That's a good place to start, but that may not be enough by itself. It sounds like the weight balance of that small of a car has been changed pretty significantly by the engine swap.

ManuelGz

What do you think I should do to make the handling better on this car? I noticed that the 323 doesn't come with the front sway bar like the Proteges do. Do you think that should be my next upgrade? I got the springs already but haven't got a chance to install them yet.


Keep up the good torque !

mazdaspeedwest

Dude, nice job!!!

I think that the LX springs will help and the addition of the front sway bar, but you may also want to get the LX rear sway bar too, as just the front bar may add to your problem of understeering, even with the LX springs. You may also want to think about MX3 springs, as IIRC they are even a bit stiffer than the LX springs.

Try to get the car weighed to see how much it's gained, corner weights would be best. I don't know how far your going with your project, but by corner weighing the car, and if racing is in your future, coilovers with specifc spring rates would be your best bet.

ManuelGz

Ok so I spent all day yesterday working on the car and finally got the Protege springs on it. The car went back to its normal heigth, it feels much better at the corners, but I just coudn't install the damm sway bar for the front. I guess threre had to be some differences after all. I'm still waiting for the rear strut bar but I'm starting to loose hope. I bought it at Ebay from some EVOTEC company in Canada and its been over a month now and nothing. anyways, I'm going to check on the rear sway bar and compare it with the Protege one or Mx3 and see if they can be swap, I think it'll help if they are bigger than the one I got stock in the car.

By the way, I went to a Rally cross on February in Ridgecrest, CA
it was my first time and I had a lot of fun. The suspension sucked big time ! but its getting better. I might consider buying an extra set of struts (4) from the MX-3, but I don't know if the ones in the 1.6l is the same from the V6 1.8 L ?? Any idea?

Tell me, Where do you guys go for racing and stuff like that? I'd like to participate more in this kind of events.

Davard

There is indeed a difference in springs between the two models. The wire diameter on the 323 is likely 12.7 or 12.9mm, while the LX is 13.3 or 13.4mm. May not sound like much, but when dealing with springs, a little change makes a big difference. Figure about 20% stiffer with the LX springs.

And all '90 323/Proteges have the same 20mm rear sway bar. The difference is that the 323 has no front bar, the SOHC has a 19.1mm, and the DOHC has a 22mm front bar.

And Monroe Sensatracs aren't much of an improvement over worn out stock struts. Probably the best choice would be the ZX-2 S/R Tokicos available from Southwest Ford (among others). Especially if you are rallycrossing (which would give the struts a real workout).

ManuelGz

Ok so I finally got the front Protege LX springs installed. The car feels much better now but still sucks at the corners. I tried and just coudn't install the damm sway bar for the front, the chasis is probably different. I just can not get it to go trough. Since I got that against me; How can I make it up so the balance of the car is ok ? Do you think that I need to install the rear springs from the Protege too ? I hope that helps, other wise I'm ready to set something on fire !!

Also I was checking the web page of a Protege owner here that made tie bars for the front and rear for the Pros Would this improve my ride ? From Mazda Speed West
http://www.automediazone.com/pro/90LX_enter.htm

Davard

The stock front swaybar should fit, but it's a major PITA to put in. You have to support the engine from above, and drop the rear end of the crossmember and pull the steering rack off the firewall. If you have the manual, it describes it pretty well.

The tie bars won't improve the ride, but will help the handling. But, the front hangs down quite a bit, which might be a concern in rallycrossing.

ManuelGz

I'm trying to remember how in the world I got that sway bar out of that Protege at the junk yard? It was from the driver side and it didn't have the spindle, axle ans strut..... Now that you mention it, it probably didn't have the steering rack in it any more, that's probably why it was so easy to remove. Now that's a pain in the

Davard

I think that the reason the steering rack needs to be pulled off the firewall is to allow it to pull away when the subframe is dropped. Otherwise there wouldn't be enough room to put the bar in.

This difficulty, BTW, is why the ST front bar is an add-on. There isn't much of a market for an install that's this much of a PITA. Although, I've given thought to putting a 1" ZX-2 bar in place of the stock/ST combo I currently have (on the theory that it will allow easier suspension movement, and reduce the weight on the front end--maybe).

jdal711

Cheez, who'd have guessed ! Well that explains a lot of the roll.

Davard, do you know he wire diam's for the MX3s? Guess the V6 struts/spgs could raise my 323 so I'll try some off a 4 cyl MX3. I see the ZX2 struts are matched to lower (Eibach) spgs. Will the 1.6L MX3 spgs be low (/short) enough to match ZX2 struts later?

Other threads mention the Escort GT/ Pro1 LX rear sway is interchangeable with the 323 (but not much bigger). How about a ZX2 rear sway? I know the MX3 rear sway has nice diam but its ends are turned 90º compared to the 323/ Pro.

A rear upper strut bar on a 323 HB sounds messy (& in the way). That leaves a rear lower strut bar (from an MX3 GS) & an upper front strut bar too low for a lower front bar when the kids are driving) to round out my low cost upgrades. Sure hope the ZX2 rear sway is a fit. Can anyone confirm?

ManuelGz

Well I just got my rear strut bar...........finally after 2 months ! I'll let you know if this fixes or improves the cornering problem.
I also got my two front slotted and drilled 14' rotors so I can stop the little beast.

zenilder

Yeah. I actually scrapped the right side of the front tie bar when I took a mild rise in the road at a corner. I gassed it while I was taking the rise, which was around the apex, and when I went over the rise, the car came down and scrapped just a tiny, tiny bit. I don't think it would be a prob if I had the tokicos in.
Though, MazdaspeedWest has using them while autox'in, and I haven't heard of him scrapping the bars. *shrug*

Later on.

jdal711

Whoops, I think I fell off the merry-go-round. Is the ZX2 smaller in mounting dimensions but bigger in diam or is the Pro LX ? Sounds like one of them is 22-23mm which is perfect. Isn't the LX Pro1's rear sway is a direct fit onto the 323 (with the LX bushings)?

Davard

OK, the 323 uses no front and a 20mm rear bar. Some might be 19mm, but in '90 it was 20mm.

The Protege SE/DX uses a 19.1mm (0.75") front bar, and a 20mm rear.

The Protege LX uses a 22mm front bar and a 20mm rear bar.

The Escort GT uses a 22mm front bar and a 19mm rear bar. It understeers slightly more than the P-LX, due more to springs than bars, but still has drop-throttle oversteer.

To fix the oversteer problem, the ZX-2 uses a 25mm front bar and a 16mm rear bar. Yep, no way to make this thing do anything but understeer.