Or you could have voted for...
February-27th-2003, 11:56 PM
#1
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Or you could have voted for...
I thought this was funny to think about the people who could have won the 2000 election:
George Bush - Served National Guard, to all practical knowledge deserted (or went AWOL, whatever) from 1972-1973 when he was supposed to be serving.
Al Gore - Served Army from 1969-1971. Joined as an enlisted man, even though he had a Harvard degree and could have been an officer. Served in Vietnam for 5 months as a journalist.
John McCain - Do I even have to say? The man was shot down and taken prisoner during Vietnam.
Bob Dole (I know 1996) - Why wasn't this guy elected (actually most people feel because of the Christian Coalition and their anti-this anti-that rhetoric)? Wounded in WWII.
Sorry, those are the only people I can remember. Its been awhile but I was thinking back. A few of the people who are in power now:
Tom Delay - Not drafted. "So many minority youths had volunteered ... that there was literally no room for patriotic folks like himself."
Dick Cheney - Deferrals
John Ashcroft - Deferrals
Donald Rumsfeld - Served 53-57 in peacetime
Phill Gramm (I just don't like Gramm) - Deferrals
Colin Powell - Served in Vietnam and onwards. "I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and well-placed... managed to wangle slots in Reserve and National Guard units" (from his book, wonder what he tells his boss?)
Just put some more names on here and I will look them up. I'm enjoying how many of the Republicans in power now got off on deferalls.
George Bush - Served National Guard, to all practical knowledge deserted (or went AWOL, whatever) from 1972-1973 when he was supposed to be serving.
Al Gore - Served Army from 1969-1971. Joined as an enlisted man, even though he had a Harvard degree and could have been an officer. Served in Vietnam for 5 months as a journalist.
John McCain - Do I even have to say? The man was shot down and taken prisoner during Vietnam.
Bob Dole (I know 1996) - Why wasn't this guy elected (actually most people feel because of the Christian Coalition and their anti-this anti-that rhetoric)? Wounded in WWII.
Sorry, those are the only people I can remember. Its been awhile but I was thinking back. A few of the people who are in power now:
Tom Delay - Not drafted. "So many minority youths had volunteered ... that there was literally no room for patriotic folks like himself."
Dick Cheney - Deferrals
John Ashcroft - Deferrals
Donald Rumsfeld - Served 53-57 in peacetime
Phill Gramm (I just don't like Gramm) - Deferrals
Colin Powell - Served in Vietnam and onwards. "I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and well-placed... managed to wangle slots in Reserve and National Guard units" (from his book, wonder what he tells his boss?)
Just put some more names on here and I will look them up. I'm enjoying how many of the Republicans in power now got off on deferalls.
Last edited by kc5zom; February-28th-2003 at 12:08 AM.
February-28th-2003, 12:06 AM
#2
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Sorry, cheap shot but couldn't resist:
Also, CNN on Bill Clinton during Vietnam -
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1996/...ns/draft.shtml
I thought that was interesting. Its about Clinton and the draft. I've been hearing some severely f'ed up misinformation lately (people thinking he jumped country to avoid the draft, mostly to Canada, but somebody today told me France).
Also, CNN on Bill Clinton during Vietnam -
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1996/...ns/draft.shtml
I thought that was interesting. Its about Clinton and the draft. I've been hearing some severely f'ed up misinformation lately (people thinking he jumped country to avoid the draft, mostly to Canada, but somebody today told me France).
February-28th-2003, 01:03 AM
#3
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I'm glad we have a volunteer army now. And we still have pretty good numbers too. To be honest I don't think I'd ever really volunteer... but if I was called unto a draft, well, damn, I love my country so I'd go kick some ***. 
February-28th-2003, 11:32 AM
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Re: Re: Or you could have voted for...
Originally posted by blue LEDz
one slight addition to this part:
al gore shot 2 US soldiers, the ones his dad assigned to protect him in vietnam. he didn't really join the army either. i don't know the exact details behind it, and i doubt you will find the truth in any book. but what i know is coming from a vietnam vet that responded to the 2 dead soldiers that were assigned as bodyguards to gore. he said they will probably never get the truth out of gore, but it looked as though gore heard something, and shot at it, not knowing it was his men
one slight addition to this part:
al gore shot 2 US soldiers, the ones his dad assigned to protect him in vietnam. he didn't really join the army either. i don't know the exact details behind it, and i doubt you will find the truth in any book. but what i know is coming from a vietnam vet that responded to the 2 dead soldiers that were assigned as bodyguards to gore. he said they will probably never get the truth out of gore, but it looked as though gore heard something, and shot at it, not knowing it was his men
February-28th-2003, 07:37 PM
#6
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Vietnam and Such
As far as I'm concerned it's likely that equal numbers of politicians on BOTH sides, Republican and Democrat, have issues regarding their service (or lack thereof) in the military.
And avoiding service in Vietnam? All in all there's nothing wrong with that, as everyone knows that was a bullshit operation in the first place. We should have figured that out from the French who failed there before us.
The people who fought in Vietnam (including *MY* dad) were unknowing accomplices whose bravery and sacrifice cannot be discounted, but even McNamara has admitted Vietnam was a load of crap that cost us priceless young lives and billions in unnecessary financial expenditure.
The irony here is not the reality that people tried to get out of this absurd conflict, the irony is that there haven’t been more people admitting that this was the correct course of action in the first place because that war was ******* bullshit from the start.
And avoiding service in Vietnam? All in all there's nothing wrong with that, as everyone knows that was a bullshit operation in the first place. We should have figured that out from the French who failed there before us.
The people who fought in Vietnam (including *MY* dad) were unknowing accomplices whose bravery and sacrifice cannot be discounted, but even McNamara has admitted Vietnam was a load of crap that cost us priceless young lives and billions in unnecessary financial expenditure.
The irony here is not the reality that people tried to get out of this absurd conflict, the irony is that there haven’t been more people admitting that this was the correct course of action in the first place because that war was ******* bullshit from the start.
February-28th-2003, 08:48 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Or you could have voted for...
Originally posted by blue LEDz
tell that to the sergeant first class that was in the medivac that responded to the dead soldiers. do you think they will tell you about his **** up in books? or records? we all know the government is good at covering stuff up, especially when it involves a politician, or his son
believe what you want, but i'll believe my platoon sergeant who was there and no, he's not one of the crazy vietnam vets that tells a bunch of horse **** stories. he got drafted during vietnam and has over 30 years of service in the army. but i guess someone who was there knows less than all the BS crap that is released to the news or in books
tell that to the sergeant first class that was in the medivac that responded to the dead soldiers. do you think they will tell you about his **** up in books? or records? we all know the government is good at covering stuff up, especially when it involves a politician, or his son
believe what you want, but i'll believe my platoon sergeant who was there and no, he's not one of the crazy vietnam vets that tells a bunch of horse **** stories. he got drafted during vietnam and has over 30 years of service in the army. but i guess someone who was there knows less than all the BS crap that is released to the news or in books
A) Your sergeant knows about a government coverup that would, if it actually happened, be highly classified and tells everyone in his platoon this because he would like an all expenses paid trip to Leavenworth. At which point you spout it off here even further.
- or -
B) Nothing really happened, and at best your sergeant just wanted a good story to tell at weekend warrior camp.
If he has been in the military for thirty years and the highest he can hit is sergeant first class in charge of a platoon of reservists, and he saw something that important, wouldn't that seem a little odd to you that he was not given a better rank in return for his non-existent silence.
February-28th-2003, 08:56 PM
#8
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Re: Vietnam and Such
Originally posted by ProtegeMaster
As far as I'm concerned it's likely that equal numbers of politicians on BOTH sides, Republican and Democrat, have issues regarding their service (or lack thereof) in the military.
And avoiding service in Vietnam? All in all there's nothing wrong with that, as everyone knows that was a bullshit operation in the first place. We should have figured that out from the French who failed there before us.
The people who fought in Vietnam (including *MY* dad) were unknowing accomplices whose bravery and sacrifice cannot be discounted, but even McNamara has admitted Vietnam was a load of crap that cost us priceless young lives and billions in unnecessary financial expenditure.
The irony here is not the reality that people tried to get out of this absurd conflict, the irony is that there haven’t been more people admitting that this was the correct course of action in the first place because that war was ******* bullshit from the start.
As far as I'm concerned it's likely that equal numbers of politicians on BOTH sides, Republican and Democrat, have issues regarding their service (or lack thereof) in the military.
And avoiding service in Vietnam? All in all there's nothing wrong with that, as everyone knows that was a bullshit operation in the first place. We should have figured that out from the French who failed there before us.
The people who fought in Vietnam (including *MY* dad) were unknowing accomplices whose bravery and sacrifice cannot be discounted, but even McNamara has admitted Vietnam was a load of crap that cost us priceless young lives and billions in unnecessary financial expenditure.
The irony here is not the reality that people tried to get out of this absurd conflict, the irony is that there haven’t been more people admitting that this was the correct course of action in the first place because that war was ******* bullshit from the start.
One thing I will give to blue LEDz, at least you have the ***** to fight for something you believe in.
March-2nd-2003, 04:59 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Or you could have voted for...
who says i believe in an all out war with iraq? i believe something needs to be done, but with new intel, i don't think a direct attack will work as well as the government plans. once sadam blows the oil plants and the water damns, it's going to make for a hellacious battlefield, and probably hurt many civilians if there is another way, i would much prefer it. it's not like we are going to go in and kill civilians, i'm worried that all of sadams efforts to stop or slow us down will harm many innocent people.
if there is another way, i would much prefer it. it's not like we are going to go in and kill civilians, i'm worried that all of sadams efforts to stop or slow us down will harm many innocent people.