mnkyboy

I just bought my Protege 5 yesterday, and it is my first manual tranny. Ive been practicing, but one of my friends tells me that I have been driving the car wrong. The way that I have been practicing is from what another friend told me. I am very confused, and would like for any suggestions from the board members. Please tell me every detail:

1. Starting the car....

2. Backing out of the drive-way...

3. Start driving....

4. Changing gears...

5. Coming to a stop sign...

Can someone please tell me in detail what the correct thing to do in the above situations? Also anything else that may help me Thanks in advance

Buttersideup

I got yelled at (well, not really) by a guy at Skip Barber for doing that. If someone barrels up behind you and you need to get out of danger quickly, you have to clutch in, pop it in gear and clutch out. He told me stay in 1st gear and keep the clutch in at stops.

In all honesty, I only do this at quick lights, in the rain or snow or in situations that may warrant (or if I remember...lol). Some say clutch in stops prematurely wear the clutch bearings. YMMV.

mnkyboy...do what's easier as you start out. Protege Menace gave good pointers.

--Dean

JJB

I read over your directions, pretty good I would say. However, the above statement leaves me a little confused.

When you say "I leave out the the clutching" do you mean entirely for both taking the car out of gear and then putting the car back into gear?

I realize that it is very easy to take the transmission out of gear into the neutral position without clutching, just some very mild pressure on the shifter and a tiny blip of the gas. In the next part you say "put in the next gear like normal" and I assume you use the clutch. I would say this OK advice

However, if you are recommending that when he gets better with the clutch that he also complete the engament of the next gear without the use of the clutch I'd have to say that is potentially bad advice. It takes a good while to get really comfortable with your transmission and completing the up or downshift without a clutch can be very detramental to your transmission. It can be done (not down into first of course) but it requires very good matching of the engine RPM with the driveline RPMs and can very very very quickly beat the snot out of the synchronizers. I would also say that this is usually easier to do on a trasmission that has been beat of for several years and not on a brand new tranny.

Please, when you change gears make full use of the clutch... it will extend the life of your transmission. As you get better and better at shifting you will find that you slip your clutch less and less for a smooth ride.

I would say that this is debatable and has been talked about in the following post:

http://www.protegeclub.com/forum/sho...&threadid=1282

It is a matter of preference I would say. In any case, I think that for someone that is learning how to drive it might be a good idea to take the car out of gear when at a full stop and the release the clutch. If you are not used to it and for some reason that foot comes of the cluctch whilst stopped it might save you from introducing the front end of your brand new car to the rear end of another one.

The consensus would seem to agree with the release the clutch method... I however was taught from the other school and usually only release the clutch at very long stops. Of course your mileage may vary. In my immediate family (none of us drive automatics) we all usually hold the clutch in, and the clutch/tranmissions on the cars have gone well past 120,000 miles on the ODO without any problems.

Well... that about does it for me at the moment. I need to read a little more and then make some more offhanded remarks

mnkyboy

Thanks everyone for postingm and helping me out

My sister-in-law (21 years old) told me that when im coming up to a stop light or stop sign, to put the car in neutral and use the brake to come to a stop. Then when you are ready to go, you put the car into 1st gear, and take off.

But then my uncle (about 48 years old) tells me when im coming to a stop, to put the car into 2nd gear, then pull up on the clutch, and the engine slows the car down, then push in again and use the break to come to a complete stop. Keep the clutch in at SECOND gear, and when im ready to go, REV up to 15 to 20k then gradually release the clutch to go.

Questions:
My sister in law has a fairly new mitshibishi eclispe, but my uncle hasnt driven stick since his daughter had a 70's Bug. Are older cars better at his method and newer cars better at her method?

Also, my uncle said that you NEVER want to use neutral unless you are just at a complete stop for a long time talking to someone or what not. Since if you are at a stop sign/light and you put the car into neutral, someone can hit you from behind and you are going to go into whatevers in front of you (if you panic and release the brake). He also said that this will allow the gears to keep you from going forward, and not the break.

As for the stopping at stop signs/lights, he said the reason you put the car into second gear is so that you will release the clutch a little, which would slow the car down, then use the break to stop complety. He told me that this will put less wear on my breaks. BUT, will this mess up the gears in the long run??

One last thing, is it ok to take off in SECOND all of the time? I know that it is better to take off in first if you are at a slant, but I find it easier to take off in second at a stop sign/light.

Im confused, very confused, BUT I love my car, even though I dont completely know how to use it yet

So, if anyone can answer these questions above, I might have a better understanding. Of course I want my car to last the longest it can, so which method is the best?

JJB

OK... first off I am not an expert on any of this, but I learned to drive on a standard tranny and have been driving them on and off (since I had a crappy automatic for 5 years) for 12 years. My first and second cars were sticks and so is my current one (after that hyatus) and in between I have the pleasure of driving an older (1973) very ornery Grumman-Olson step van with a standard in it.

I'll try my best to comment on some parts:

I would say that for a beginner, and for the car you are driving, I agree with the method your sister-in-law uses. When you need to come to a stop you can put the car in neutral and stop it using the brakes (heck, brake pads are cheaper than a clutch). However, if you really like to downshift when coming to a stop feel free to do so... walk through the gears and eventually come to a stop.

When it comes time to go again, I am not sure that I agree with the starting in second theory. I would say that in your P5 the way to go is with 1st gear. If you are not at a full stop then you can use second gear to resume forward motion.

There are some exceptions to the idea of getting going in first gear. In some older trucks (and maybe some today, I have no first hand knowledge) like the one I drive it has a four speed transmission. But in reality the truck really has a three speed tranmission and what is known as a creeper gear. This is a really low gear that allows the truck to pull away from a stop on an incline when REALLY loaded and also allows for creeping the truck along at very very low speeds... because of the gear reduction that this gear offers it is not practical to start up in average conditions in that gear. You simply put it into the second available gear and start normally.

What your uncle seems to be describing is getting the revs up (a VW bug was way underpowered, they are fun little cars though) and then slipping the clutch whislt starting in second. I am pretty sure you are going to need to slip the clutch a bit to get the car rolling forward so that it does not stall or get the RPMs up farther. I do not do this with any of the small cars that I have driven. You can do it, but first gear is there for a reason.

Not really... I think it is a matter of personal preference...

Heck, see the thread I mentioned earlier for the whole gear vs. no gear at a stop.

I do feel that I need to comment (and here I go ) on the getting rear ended comment. I would say that as Buttersideup mentioned, if you pay attention to your rear view a lot then you might be able to get out of trouble by having the car in gear. But the idea that the tranny is going to help if you get rear ended I am not sure about... yes, if you get hit from behind and you are in neutral AND your foot comes of the brake the momentum will be transfered from the car that hit you into yours and you will hit the car in front of you. If you did have the car in gear AND your feet came off both the clutch and brake when you get hit, THEN you might have some advantage in that the car is going to stall and remain in gear and the motor will then provide a braking action.

Of course this then begs the analysis of what might actually happen with the force of energy being transfered... is it better to allow the car to roll durng the impact and transfer the energy that way, or to leave it stationary and take a harder hit... but that is another topic.

On this one I would say that if you get hit from behind you have more things to worry about than whether your car was in gear or not... for that to matter in the situation you are probably going to have to deal with a faceful fo aribags already.

Yes, it saves on wear and tear on the brakes. But, that means that the wear and tear gets transfered to somewhere else. In a perfect world that would be the engine providing compressional braking and that is where you remove the forward momentum of the car. But in the real world it means that you are also going to need to wear out your clutch a little bit. I would say that the price of the clutch is a lot more than the price of break pads... plus, break pads on a four wheel disc car are very easy to change

On many older cars they used to not allow cars with automatics to travel on mountain roads (take Mount Washington in New Hampshire for the exteme case example) because of brakes over heating and beeing inadequate. You had to have a standard to be able to do it. But in today's world brake pads and rotors are much much better and normal driving they are more than adequate to bring your car to a full stop repeatably without the need of the tranmission. Of course, it is a lot more fun to downshift


Well... hopefully I did not add to that with these comments...

Buttersideup

Oop. Not in a modern car, not like that and not in your first days driving stick.

While I wholeheartedly concur with Uncle BugDriver on the downshifting, I'd save that until you get your "wheels under you" as it were. I would not suggest downshifting to a stop unless you are good at rev-matching...something I'd leave until month 2 of driving stick. But...I downshift for a completely different reason. I am usually down to second gear by the time I stop...not really to slow the car, but to always keep myself in the optimal power band in case I have to get outta there quick. To me, engine braking is for trucks and some downhills...I'd rather replace my brake pads than drivetrain components.

As for a second gear start...nah. Why? It's tough on the clutch, dogs the engine and gets you off the line about as snappy as a school bus. And 15 or 20K!!?!?? I assume you mean 1.5 to 2k. I'm not sure where I put revs in my cars...I know I rev the Miata higher...

Oh...and if I'm not going to downshift to the stop, I usually pull the shift into neutral with no clutch. Why bother?

As always...YMMV.

--Dean

MP3-Owner

I remember the first week I had my manual I didn't know how to use reverse so I would always park where I didn’t have to use it, and would PUSH my car backwards with my foot

LMAO! Just thought this was funny. Carry on

znole

When I bought my first car (brand new 1993 asuna sunfire / isuzu impulse), I had a quick course from my uncle for one night. He drove it home from the dealer for me then the rest was my self-taught with some brief practice (alot of stalls especially up hill). Every car had a different feel to the clutch, so it took me about a week to get the hang of it (93 sunfire and 00 protege). In my opinion, when coming to a stop, slowly gear down (3rd. to 2nd., etc.) gives you full control of the vehicle especially in wet or snowy weather, plus emergency manouver if needed be (car rear-ending you). And of course, release the clutch and in neutral gear at a stop while awaiting long lights, etc., after checking rearview mirror that it is safe. Other parts of driving a 5-speed is too long to explain, read the manual, and the best is to go out and experience it (there's nothing like it).

P.s., it is unwise and unsafe to drive down hill in neutral gear, always keep in appropriate gear. Oh, and never ride on your brakes down hill, gear down to slow down.

mnkyboy

What manual? Did I miss out on the Official Mazda Learning To Drive Stick for Dummies book? LOL

Seriously, does anyone know any good websites with a in-depth look at driving a stick? Maybe ill make one with flash movies, etc when I fully master driving a manual tranny.

znole

Well, in the manual (Mazda's owner manual), check out section 5. There are some pointers reguarding manual transmission and operation. Other than that, find a friend who is good with the stick shift and let him guide the way. You may need to bring some barf bags though.

Buttersideup

Some of this is a bit more advanced, like heel/toe and double-clutching, but there is good info here:

http://www.turnfast.com/default.html

...and here:

http://www.happytogether.com/318ti/notebook/shifting/

--Dean