Sweedenhouse

I know its 4th of July, and we supposed to be patriotic and ****, but I just read this and it kinda pisses me off, and makes me not think so highly of America.....

http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/w...RIKE_MAIN.html

I dunno is it just me, or does anyone else get the feeling of "what the hell are we even doing there anymore?" We're bombing villages, and caves, and basically nothing just to continue this so-called "war-effort". Its pretty lame if you ask me. Even if there were these supposed head Taliban people there, why not send a couple special-ops dudes, or snipers to take them out. Not bomb the whole damn village. This **** just pisses me off, this whole "war on terror" is just becoming more and more meanignless.

Sorry guys, just had to vent. I mean I love America and all, but there are some really shitty things about this country as well, and its easy to understand why a whole lot of other countries hate us.

But safe and happy 4th to you all, American or no......

TrexPro5

The problem is with Special Ops guys you risk losing American Life. Americans dont want to hear about that, it sucks but Americans would rather hear about other people losing there life then Americans themselves. In my opinon thats why we arnt sending special forces over and doing stratic strikes. Maybe we are doing strategic strikes and the US Government isnt telling us about it, its been known to happen. Either way its a good point and I agree its fucked up but the public controls people!

arl240

Some of the command structure in this war has to be reworked. Between the bombing of the Canadian troops and this wedding disaster, something has to change.

Makaveli

yup, and the bombing of the Chinese embassy and schools in Yugoslavia, and the beloved Yugo factory (of the car).... they all happened 'by accident'........

Don't get me started on the American government, but I like the people though

Pro_fan

I'm sorry....but isn't the Government supposed to answer to the people not vice versa? I thought that was pretty much the centre of Democracy.

This is a quote from Thomas Jefferson:

“Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends (life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness), it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government.”

Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), from the Declaration of Independence

People are supposed to question Government. This isn't a dictatorship.

Shawn

WOW Well spoken for a Canadian.
When a government bombs first and asks questions later, something bad is going to happen. Either the protocols need to be changed or better enforced. In the example of the Canadian troops. The Canadians reported to all the necessary channels to inform everyone of their location and the nature of their training. There was no understandable excuse for what happened. It simply seems that the pilot wanted to drop a bomb. I think I read that he was even instructed not to but he overruled that order by saying he was under attack and it was self defense. If he'd been flying at 10,000 feet like he was supposed to, he wouldn't have even known about the small arms training being done. No excuse.

Makaveli

NO! That'd be like trying to make excuses for the 9/11 attacks.
"Osama Bin Laden knew what was REALLY going on, and how to deal with it"

The end result is always innocent people killed and nothing productive being done.

Pro_fan

a) No...you and I did not have enough money to run for government positions...that is why we're not there. I'm sure that there are much better people out there that just happen to not have a million dollars or so kicking around to run for Office that would do a better job than some of those elected.

Also, it is majority rules. I'm certain that there are some people that don't think those in Government are the right people for the job.

b) You guys are the UNITED States of America. Sure you have individual states, but what you're saying is absurd and you know it. Together, all your States collectively makes ONE country...I don't know Jefferson's mind, but I doubt his intent was to have individual Autocracies that did not interact and work to a common goal with the whole of the country.

BTW, good debate so far!

MikeD

Well Im not trying to be biased in any way what-so-ever but both of my parents are in the military. They actually work at a place called Hurlburt Field in Florida. Nothing but Special-Ops there.
whether it is Special-Ops forces or otherwise I believe that we should be over there. No matter what! After what happened Sept 11 there is NO way that we shouldn't. Althougth I agree that we haven't declared a "formal" war on Afghanistan and/or OBN it is still war. Innocent ppl will die no matter what. It happened in the World trades and Pentagon. It is the price of war so to speak. It happens in EVERY war. Im sorry to say it but it does. History shows it. If the war was happening in the U.S. there is a 100% chance that something like that would haapen to us. I believe for the safety of "OUR" country we should keep that in mind. it may sound funny but do you know how many military men put their lives on the line for 25K+/-/year. Now thats true love for the country. Ask ANY of them and I'll bet you they'll say they would do it for free! Innocent ppl will get hurt. I feel bad for that. But that shouldn't stop us from protecting ourselves and OTHERS from harm. The military knows what they are doing and we should trust in them. They know way more than we do for sure. My parents can't even tell us the stuff they know. Once again Im sorry for the innocent lives lost but we have to remember it is an accident and a mistake that any of us could make especially in a time of war. We are doing the right thing in my opinion.

Sorry for the long post.

Jeremy

TrexPro5

Thats very true and we are all going to have our diffrent opinons on whats going on. Im just glad this post hasnt turned into "Im right your wrong" ****.

Anyway, I do believe that the government should let us know what is going on. I believe it is our right to know. Granite, the wonderful US Media puts hype into EVERY little damn thing. Unfortunatly, I think this hampers any government from releasing some info. I do understand that Miltary movements, bombing, etc should be kept quite and the public should not know. I do believe we have the right to know what is going on. Maybe I dont keep up with current events very well but I do feel somewhat lost as to where things are going.

On a diffrent note, Psuedo brought up a good point, we elect who we feel is best for the job. However, what happens when neither person running for the Presidency is worthy in our eyes? I mean I didnt even vote for a president this past election because I didnt like either of the two major reps and I really didnt hear much about anybody else. My friend from Italy was telling me that you can still vote for the communist party etc. That sounds so wierd to me.

If you read any of this post, I know its long sorry, read and ask yourself this...

Is the United States a True Democracy?


These are just my opinons and thoughts, sorry for rambling.

Pro_fan

One word (or two depending on whom you talk to):
Vietnam

Makaveli

Whatever, let me just say this. I come from Yugoslavia, and there USA had NO business interfering. All that they did is ESCALATE the war that wasn't going to happen. If I had one last wish in this world it would be to have ALL of the USA government that was responsible for that die in a slow and painfull death. They bombed schools, churches that were almost a thousand years old and bridges all in trying to demoralize a nation.

Take this for a fact, USA government killed more innocent civilians then the 9/11 attackers did....... directly..... if you look at it indirectly and consider the children that are dying in Iraq because of USA sanctions, it quickly jumps to a million.......


Sorry if this is too strong for some of you (I'm a bit drunk ow right) but hey it's the truth. As I said before, I like American people, and even some people that serve as military for the States as it's not their fault, but damn, I HATE the American governement.

Power in the wrong hands? Mos Definetely.

Shawn

Yes innocent people always die is wars. What sorta pisses me off is that the USA would rather drop some bombs on hundreds of innocents and a few Taliban, and risk absolutely none of it's own troops lives(troops who are highly trained for combat), rather than send in the special ops teams, kill far less innocent people but put their own highly trained troops at risk.

I always though that lost innococent(civilian) lives was far worse than lost military lives. It's kinda like comparing a tactical military strike(Pearl Harbour) to a metropolitan or civilian strike(Hiroshima, Nagasaki). When civilians are killed it's a far greater tragedy. I wish the USA would puts a few of it's troops at risk rather than taking the other route and just bombing the hell out of everything on the ground. Are Afghan lives not as big of a loss as American lives?

Sweedenhouse

I couldn't of put it better.....

arl240

That is an excellent rebuttal. And from someone in Saskatchewan no less.....ah, we are excellent orators up here.