KHH

jjac28,

Exactly...that was what I was trying to convey. The Focus has been very reliable in Europe, but Ford became greedy, and wasn't willing to take a loss on the car in the North American market, so they went into cheap mode, and beat up the supliers until they got what they wanted...cheap cost which led to cheap parts.

Maybe they would have been better off to leave the quality where it was in Europe, take a short term loss until the car developed a good reputation ,then they could start charging a little more, and make a tidy profit.

jjac28

here's an excerpt from edmunds focus review....

"....So what kept the Focus out of the winner's circle? Those of you who said "build quality issues" are
correct. The Focus was one of the favored cars going into this test, and the editors were fully
prepared to crown it "King Economy Sedan." Then we got our test unit and gave it a good
going-over...D'OH! The final tally nearly broke our hearts: loose driver's door window trim,
misaligned hood and trunk, loose and misaligned interior driver's door panel, crooked rear fascia, misaligned headlight seals, and a driver's side interior A-pillar cover/power mirror pod that basically
fell off. (Sigh) So where are the Civic's keys? "

None of this is found on my protege...
Their test car is almost falling apart and they still rave about it and say that it represents EXCELLENT value for your buck!
I now know who pays their salaries

jstand6

Read the fine print at the bottom of the screen and you will see that almost everything they say or advertise in the commercial does not apply to the SVT model.

Even though they say it is not true, I would have to say the amount of money a manufacturer spends in advertising in a magazine is a major factor in awards. Look at every comparison test Car and Driver has performed involving the Focus. The Protege/Protege5 always wins and the Focus never places higher than mid-pack and is constantly ridiculed and bashed by the journalists.

My best friend has a Focus Wagon and my sister has a ZX3. Both bought them against my recommendation and both hate their cars. My sister's ZX3 has had brake, manual transmission linkage, and interior cosmetic problems. My friend's Focus Wagon has had brake, automatic transmission, interior cosmetic, exterior body, water leak, air conditioning, and emissions problems. Both of the interior cosmetic problems are components fading more rapidly than others (such as the passenger airbag cover) and the coating on the center stack and gear selector bezels peeling away. Plus, both have been through the numerous recalls.

jstand6

On paper, the Focus may seem roomy, but in real life it isn't so. In my friend's Focus Wagon, her rear-facing child seat (she has a 2 month-old) forces the front passenger seat to it's forward-most locking position. Even with that seat moved all the way up, and angled in it's upmost locking position, the child seat is still jammed into the back of the seat. In my Protege or Protege5, that same seat forces the front seat only half-way up, so at least it is still usable. Basically, with her child seat in, she can only sit herself (the driver) and one other passenger. When she rode in the back of my Pro5, she was amazed at how much more head- and leg-room she had compared to the Focus.

ProtegeMaster

People at large quote auto magazines up the butt yet they'll never acknowledge Consumer Reports (maybe because they don't even know about it). Well, the Focus is CR's highest rated small car-- Because it handles well, has a civilized, comfortable ride, is quiet, has a roomy interior, and delivers relatively good economy. That said, they do not recommend it because of this car's well documented history of wretched, foul reliability; a characteristic Ford excels in.

My personal estimation as to why Focus is so well received:

1. People place all of their trust in publications supported by the very manufacturers of the vehicles they review (*a testament to preposterous and shocking mass ignorance). If you think for a moment that you’re going to get a completely truthful, uninhibited, objective analysis from such a publication, you’re * (see above). No commercial publication I your life would ever say anything scathingly negative about a car who’s maker pays your salary, even if it was totally justified. Never.
2. People don’t have a clue what a reliable car is. Various problems encountered by your average American car owner are perceived as a normal part of owning any vehicle. You have a problem, you take it to the service department and then feel good about having done something actively beneficial for your vehicle. You’re feeling all warm and fuzzy, and you just love your Chevy TrailBlazer.
3. Aside from reliability issues, the Focus is a good car (even if Medusa’s face presents a more attractive alternative than looking at a Focus, in my opinion).

So, given that people rely on commercial publications that will, by definition, always deliver reviews with watered down “safe language” terminology specifically designed NOT to alienate their sponsors, they don’t know what a reliable car is (or worse, they don’t care about reliability), and the Focus is a quiet, civilized, roomy, comfortable car, is it any real wonder why it’s done so well? Fooling the masses is an easy proposition. They’ll just keep merrily getting their car fixed or just simply deal with various issues because, “It’s an economy car, anyway. What do you expect?”. That precise justification has been used on this very forum, in fact.

Whatever. I'll not play party to vehicles which demonstrate average or below average reliability, nor will I accept quality problems as an inherent condition of owning an economy car. Period. Ford and everyone else who produces poor quality vehicles on grand scales can take those cars and shove them up their... well, you know.

eggynatey

I'm with ya! That's what the stupid looking winky face meant. I was demonstrating how someone could be fooled into buying a Ford by the advertisements that we get bombarded with on TV.

EDIT: if that consumer reports tirade was directed at me, I was quoting a COMMERCIAL that I saw while I was sitting here and thought I'd bring it up. And I let my subscription to CR run out after countless blender, cat-litter and hepa-filter comparisons.
How many times do you need to know who makes the best pancake mix? I want to read about & look at neat cars! Hence the SCC subscription.
If the tirade wasn't directed at me...sorry for jumping to conclusions.

Scarmiglio

First of all, the Focus SVT has 170hp, not 180hp. Second of all the SVT model hasn't been out for 4 years - the C&D award was given to the regular focus. Third, that $199 you're talking about applies to a lease and requires several THOUSAND down in cash. Who the hell puts down thousands of dollars when leasing? Doesn't that defeat the purpose?

There is nothing wrong with the focus when you compare it to other compact cars. Would you prefer a kia, hyundai, or a cavalier/sunfire?

Aftermarket support for the Protege is not dwindling. There are more products available all the time. It simply takes some time for some products - especially for the P5 which has only been out for just over a year. There aren't that many products available for the 2001-2002 Honda Civics compared to the previous generation civic. Keep in mind, most people don't get too crazy on their car until it's payed off, out of warranty, or both. How many more parts do you want, anyway? There are countless air intakes available, and plenty of cat back systems too. Both FM and Spool have turbo kits and are working on improving them. I know of 4 full on coilover kits and 8 spring manufacturers. Sway bars, body kits, clutches, flywheels, underdrive pulleys, brakes, seat brackets, steering wheels, splitters, dash kits, wings, cf hoods, cf valve covers, headers, grilles, electric fans, radiators, and more are available. What more aftermarket support do you want?

ProtegeMaster

Point of clarification-- My last post wasn't directed at anyone else's post in this thread!

No worries, mate!

eggynatey

...sorry 'bout that.

Scarmiglio, I was just quoting the commercial. I love my P5, and wouldn't trade it for ANY car under $20,000. Well, maybe a MSP...

distance

I own a 2000 Focus SE wagon 2.0L and a 2001 Protege SE 1.6L.

The price used for a 00 Focus wagon. $10,000 canadian, with up 150,000 base care waranty.

Dealer satisfaction: Protege is a delight as the waranty work has been great! I had a Rad leak and Battery went south and both were replaced under waranty and all fluids were topped up!

Dealer satisfaction: Focus : Blower moter squeals and seizes intermittently and that Hatch struts don't keep the hatch up and it hits you in the head. Brought to Ford and they say that both are due to COLD weather and are "NORMAL"! I am so tired of this B.S. "Normal for this car" CRAP!

Cars both handle well. Winter driving is much better with the Protege as the focus fish tails like crazy. Ford said its "Normal" for this car! "Big surprise" Plugs are easy as hell to replace and so are the plugs for the protege. I have not had to do a oil change on the Focus, but the Protege's filter is in a bad spot,. Nothing I couldn't handle. I have only had the Focus for a couple weeks and had 2 recalls! Battery and door trims) Gas mileage on FORDS suck in the winter! My Protege was much better in the winter and did not suffer from the cold weather as much (Gas mileage) Focus heats up after driving for a while, to the point were its really hot and you can turn down the temp. Protege does not heat up well, and I am still chilly after 35km of driving.

Protege is better looking and seats just as many A$$es. Focus might be bigger, but in height only (Inside)

My Focus came with great tires. They look expensive> TOYO 800 ultra. Don't know if there stock, but they don't seem to wear that quick. Perhaps the booklet in the glove box swayed my decision.

Oh well, theres sort of my review. I like my Protege better and only bought the Focus because it was cheap as there are a lot of these on the road in Canada (And thay are Unreliable)

jstand6

You may want to get that heater looked at. Both of my Protege's will heat to burning hot in less than 3 miles. I can't keep the temp setting more than half-way without burning my hands or feet. I have actually had to remove leather shoes because they absorbed the burning heat and wouldn't cool fast enough after changing the temp settings. Then again, this is in San Diego weather where we have our heaters going when the temp drops below 65 F. But, our thermostats and engine cooling systems are the same, so they should get up to the same temp.

kc5zom

Must be nice. Even here in Houston there are days where it takes my car a long time to warm up, and whenever I go back home it takes forever. But I'm used to it, takes just a little bit less time than my Ranger did.

onehawaiian

my heater works just fine, gets really hot. then i turn it off and wonder why the hell i even turned it on...

distance

Well, is it normal if the temp is -50C with windchill and today, the temp was~ -30C. I also caught a chill and maybe its all in my head. My temp gauge stays at 1/2 scale and is normal for this car. If thermistat was stuck open, would the engine temp not read differently. Like 1/4 scale or something even remotely different. My RAD was just replaced under waranty also! Could this have any effect on engine temp? Ireally wish I would have caught this when it was in the garage for the RAD. I'll drive it tonight after work and see how it goes!

Does any of your cars run at half scale (engine temp, or is it usually hotter)??

jstand6

Well, before I installed my indiglo gauges, the temp gauge used to be at half scale. Apparently, I didn't put the needle back in correctly since it now reads about 5/8 scale. Anyways, the only time it used to go any higher is when the spark plugs have about 25,000 miles on them (and it's just a hair higher). It goes back to half scale with new plugs.

However, if it is as cold as you say it is, the heated air won't be that warm. The engine seems to be running internally at normal temperature. The heater can only heat the outside air so much. Perhaps the Focus has a larger heater core. In warmer temperature, does the Protege's heater get too hot?