Roddimus Prime

QUIZ ON MY LAST POST (after pm 16)... WINNER GETS TO BE MOD FOR A DAY!!


So this is the stuff I have to deal with on a daily basis.... enjoy.

"Roddimus Prime,

I posted an earlier thread on 1999. 1.8 liter turbo help. I've been doing some research on your W.O.M.P. kit, and from what I know about forced induction (which isn't a whole lot-- that is why I am consulting you) it sounds ideal for my protege and what I'm looking for. After weighing out the pros and the cons of the W.O.M.P system Vs. a turbo system, the WOMP sounds like a more sensible and practical decision for many reasons. I apologize in advance for the ammount of questions, but there's still a lot of things I don't understand yet. Can you help? Someone had asked before whether or not the WOMP system created for the 2.0 would fit on a 1.8 liter but didn't really get a for sure answer. Do you know for sure yet?

Onto my other question, is the WOMP setup safe to use on a stock 1999 1.8 engine block with stock internals? If so, at what boost levels (what is the maximum safe levels-- keep in mind my protege is my daily driver)? What HP is the WOMP capable of with such a setup? If at some point I wanted to add forged internals so that I could run more boost, would you advise getting an all out built short block, or would forged pistons and connecting rods suffice, and what kind of power gains could you expect when you get into adding forged internals? Could I keep my existing CAI with this setup? Would you recommend going with the Haltech Fuel Management, or the BEGi fuel pressure regulator? You said something about an FMIC option, is there one available?

Lastly, are the dyno charts available for viewing, and is this kit available for sale yet? If so, who specifically can I contact about purchasing one? Somewhere I remember reading that you all were based out of York, PA? I used to live in Lancaster County for 12 years, Lititz specifically--not too far from York. I'm currently in Chester County... West Chester area, still not too far from York though. I am very interested in purchasing this setup from you all. At some point in the future when the time comes to buy the kit from you all, could I come to your location that day to make the transaction & see the kit on an existing car/learn more about it? Thanks again for all the info and your time. I only signed up for a membership with "protegeclub" a few days ago but have been reading threads for quite some time now and have to say I've learned a lot and found a lot of useful info/help. Look forward to hearing from you. You can PM me back, or write to my e-mail."

Sadly my replies are not included due to the sheer volume of pm's I receive I have to keep my SENT folder empty at all times....but you'll get an idea of what I'm saying.

pm #2.
"Thanks for all the info. The WOMP kits are listed for sale on www.protegegarage.com, is that the old kit or is it like a waiting list or something? If it's a waiting list or that was the old kit, when do you expect to have the new and improved ones available to the public (me)? Will you let me know when they are?

Yes i am aware, not happy, but aware that removal of the AC is required. Are you positive that 4.5 psi won't harm the stock internals and block? This is probably a dumb question as I am not familiar with superchargers but, if you do not have the haltech unit, how do you adjust the boost levels-- Are the levels mechanically adjustable? Would the BEGi Fuel pressure regulator and the haltech unit serve the same purpose at 4.5 psi levels, or is there any advantage of running a haltech over the BEGi when using a stock block and internals?

What happens if parts break or malfunction, you said the car will maintain driveability just revert back to NA if a part of the supercharger were to malfunction? If that were to happen, can we get replacement parts through you? That's a big issue becuase trying to find the correct part for the system has the potential to be a major headache. Hope to hear from you. Thanks again."

pm#3.
"Thanks for all the help/information. I'm seriously interested in purchasing a WOMP setup at some point in the near future. When could I get one? If you're not sure when they'll be available, will you let me know just before that time comes so I can reserve one? I guess what I'm saying is, can you put me on a Waiting List/ Inform list? Thanks Again.

Does the 4.5 psi pulley & pulley belt come with the kit?"

pm#4.
"Need to address an important question...forgot to ask, with 4.5 psi of boost and the BEGi FMU, will the kit pass emmissions? Also, is the BEGi FMU fairly easy to adjust the ammount of fuel that is being outputted? What fuel pressure do you reccommend on the BEGi with a stock block, internals, and 4.5 psi on the WOMP? Also I cannot find the dyno results anywhere. I'd really like to see them. Can you send me a link? If it's burried in a thread somewhere, you should put it up on web somewhere for easy access. Thanks.

Also, what belt do you reccommend? Does any belt come with the kit? Thanks again."

pm#5.
"Needed to know something about fuel with the WOMP setup. You had mentioned that when you ran your dynos with the old kit (smaller blower etc.) you hit about 170 give or take WITHOUT tuning. In one of your earliest PM's to me you had said with the newer kit, I could expect about 180 whp... what is creating that extra 10 ponies-- the larger blower or is that the numbers expected before/after tuning? Is it even possible to "tune" your fuel output kit if you're running a BEGi FMU (and not the haltech) or does it come pre-set to an adequet fuel output for 4.5 psi? What kind of numbers (as far as fuel output goes) would you recommend with the BEGi FMU to match the newly added 4.5 psi of boost? I realize you and your crew probably mostly only deals with the haltech units and probably substantially more boost than 4.5 psi, but any help in that area would be appreciated. Also, with the newly added WOMP kit and BEGi FMU added to my 1.8, will I need a higher output fuel pump to accommodate, and is the stock ignition sufficient? BTW, you forgot to let me know if this will throw a CEL or fail to pass emmissions standards. Thanks again."

pm#6.
"Thanks for the heads up on so much and being patient with my lack of knowledge about this, I really appreciate it. I will be sure to read that book but for now if you don't mind (until I can get to the book store), I just have one more question about the fact that it won't be emmissions friendly. If I was to install this kit, when I go to get my car inspected, could I do the following scenario to pass the test?

Remove the OBX header and reinstall the stock one. To compensate for the lack of flow with the stock header, I would remove the belt that drives the supercharger-- no belt = no boost, and the engine would go back to being N/A...is this a correct temporary (for only the day of the test) fix to the problem? In this scenario, would the BEGi FMU still be putting out enough fuel for 4.5 psi when there was no boost, or would it automatically retract to stock levels? You said in an earlier PM that it is by far better to be generous with the fuel output than going so lean that you in effect starve your engine while running boost which would inevitably lead to detonation. Is it hurting your engine in any way to be slightly or even moderately generous with the fuel output, or just giving you worse mileage per gallon?

One last thing, you said the BEGi FMU you would set to a suitable "base level" before you sent the kit out. Is this base level set for 4.5 psi? (i'm assuming it is if you're sending me the 4.5 psi pulley, but just wanted to make sure). Will the kit come with other pulley's for increased psi? Thanks...thats all for now."

Roddimus Prime

pm #7.
"First, is that Larry the cable guy in your avatar?

So what you are saying is you should never stomp on the gas pedal when you are at low RPM's? Or is it that you can not fully depress (even with a gradual depression) the gas pedal at low RPM. Which is going to stress the rods? About how expensive is a set of forged rods and pistons. When you put the kits together, can we request the kevlar belt and upgraded bearings? Will your kit include a clutch that disengauges the supercharger when the engine needs no boost (cruise or idle) to avoid the parasitic loss (drag) on the engine that centrifugal superchargers often produce? Or is this clutch the bypass valve you were speaking of? I hear that centrifugal chargers will produce that whistling spool, why does yours not? Does the kit require to tap into the engine's oil supply for lubrication? What about liquid cooling, will it produce substantially more power at 4.5 psi, or will it not even be noticeable? How will we know when your kits are ready to be sold? I'll probably be among that first group if all goes as planned. Will you let me know?

pm#8.
"Whoa, will the WOMP require you to remove your power steering as well as your AC?

Jackson Racing has some interesting supercharger kits available. you should visit their website if you haven't already. They got a few setups for the 1999-2000 miata, but isn't that the same 1.8 liter BP engine that is in my 1999 protege? If so, do you think it would bolt right up to my engine no problem? If you visit their website you will see they have kits available that will allow you to keep both power steering and AC, lose one or the other, or lose both. What is going on here, why would anyone want to lose either one of those if they could help it? Since the supercharger on the WOMP setup is a centrifugal supercharger, won't this blower produce progressively more boost with the increasing speed of the crankshaft--RPM's? If this is the case, then how does the WOMP budget the boost throughout the RPM range? Will it start by producing little to no boost at idle RPM's and then gradually increase the boost as your RPM's increase all the way to redline max at 4.5psi? If what I said makes no sense just imagine it as a graph with the line's endpoints at 0 psi and 4.5 psi, and a steady gradient or curve in between the two as you increase your RPM's from idle to redline. Is this what happens? I remember reading about centrifugal chargers and think I remember that is how they said they work. Will the WOMP look as dead sexy under the hood as the Jacksøn Racing kit does with that piping routing air around (and to the left of) the valve cover from the blower to the intake manifold? You gotta take some pics and post them when you get your sponsored cars setup. Thanks man

pm #9.
"Haha thanks for all the info man, but i think you missed the most important question out of that whole shpeal I just sent ya... I've read through all the threads about WOMP, everything I could find.

I'll just copy and paste it from my last message.

Which is considered "boosting at low RPM"?

Stomping on the gas pedal when you are operating at low RPM's? Or is it fully depressing (even with a gradual depression) the gas pedal at low RPM. Which is going to stress the rods? I'm concerned because i'll have to totally change my driving style if it's the latter. We all know protege's aren't quick cars straight from the factory, and I don't by any means beat on my car. You might call it babying my car but I shift consistantly at 3,000 RPM under normal driving circumstances. It's also a fact that proteges (like most 4 cylinder cars) lack low end torque early in the RPM spectrum. So what happens when you spend your daily driving time cruising below 3,000 RPM and your car lacks low end power?-- Exactly this: You depress your gas pedal slightly more (almost all the way, but not completely) so as to not accelerate painfully slow. Mind you I don't PUNCH the gas pedal, it's just the typical gradual throttle depression that you give when you drive a manual tranny and you're not trying to rape your drivetrain. Is this considered "boosting" at low RPM's? Do you see my dilema and my concern? Thanks"

pm#10.
"No more questions for now, just wanted to say thanks for being such a help and for being patient (i realize i've asked a hundred questions by now). Your commitment to helping a total stranger understand the dynamics of this setup says a lot. Needless to say it instills confidence that buying a kit from you will be an overall positive experience and you are in fact legit and out there to help people, not to take people's money like a lot of ********.

When everything gets closer to being done and you are ready to make me a kit, lets talk about details. For now, put me down for one. Thanks, by the way...what is your name? Mine's Zach. Never been down to Alabama before but any place that is lax enough to let you run without cats sounds nice. By the way, I looked everywhere all over the threads for something about power steering-- found nothing. Besides there's like 50 some odd pages and I honestly dont have the time to look through every one of them. Your kit will allow you to keep the power steering right? If we have a CAI that we are happy with, can we keep it on with your kit?"

That part in bold is critical because I'm about to be asked some stupid ****....(man having my replies handy would be so funny).

pm#11.
"Matty,

I realize all the trouble and setbacks you've been having especially with powerdyne and wagner, but honestly how close do you think you are to having a kit available to me? Like I said, I definately want one, what do i have to do to reserve one? Please let me know...lets talk details. Thanks"

pm#12.
"Matty,
I'm sure you're an honest person and everything, but the price of the kit is a lot of money to post upfront with no gaurantee of anything. For instance, what happens if you order everything for the kit, and everything except for the blower arrives because the powerdyne warehouse burns to the ground. Basically the kit is incomplete and we cannot be refunded? This is obviously some bogus scenario but it clearly illustrates how vulnerable we are. When you purchase from an online retailer you are gauranteed certain things (i.e what you ordered or a refund, or credit etc.). I realize you're not a retailer but what measures are taken to protect us and the huge investment we've just made on blind faith that you'll come through and not just take our money and run, or just not send us anything (another bogus scenario but hey, it happens-- essential speed)? BTW I've been scamed on the internet before. I'm not saying you're a dishonest person but lets face it, I'd have a tough time forking over 2800 dollars of my own hard earned money to even my best friend, let alone someone half way across the country that I've never met before and have no recourse against. So, in order to protect me, the consumer... this might sound ridiculous but honestly it's the only way....would you be willing to sign a reasonable contract saying this and nothing more: You, Matty upon cashing of my check thereby promise to send me exactly what we agreed upon within a reasonable (expedited) period of time and will provide a tracking number when they are shipped.
By all means a contract like that would not in any way be meant to screw you out of anything or hold you to anything other than what we agreed on... it only would serve to protect me because I honestly do not have 2800 bucks to burn, I'm a college student right now and thats a whole lot of money to me, it's a lot of hours worked and you can't blame me for just wanting to be protected (I've been burned by scammers before). I think this is a totally reasonable thing to do. If we can't reach some sort of agreement about this, unfortunately I'm just going to have to walk away from all this. I'm sure you are an honest person that stands by your word, but unfortunately now-a-days some people just have to ruin it for everyone else. Thanks matty, let me know what you think and get back to me."

ok, so in this pm we have reverted from, "you're an honest up and up guy" to "sign a contract or I'll walk away"....did he walk away?? of course not. More pm's to follow!!

Roddimus Prime

pm#13.
"I'm assuming that you are buying the parts in bulk that you need for the number of people you're making kits for per buying group. However, the kit I'd ask you to make me wouldn't be like everyone elses most likely. For instance I'd ask for:

-4.5 psi pulley (none others)
-kevlar belts (instead of the normal one)
-upgraded bearings (instead of the normal bearings)
-BEGi FMU (instead of haltech)
-all the other components

Most of those I'm guessing you're going to have to order seperately anyway because most people want to run more boost than me, won't ask for the kevlar belt and upgraded bearings, and will want the haltech stand alone over the BEGi FMU. You can put me in a buying group if you want but you'd probably have to price my kit differently (the BEGi doesnt cost as much as the haltech does, etc.). I realize delays do sometimes exist, but based on what you've experienced so far (and expect to experience in the future with your suppliers) what is the best and worst case scenario of expected turnaround time once you cash my check? And trust me man, take it from someone who's been around the legal system... in the court's eyes there is no such thing as a verbal contract/agreement. Unless you've got it in writing you're S.O.L. I have no recourse with anything other than a contract, or using a credit card (do you take them by the way?) I mean honestly, what's stopping you from taking my money and just telling me there's been "delays" for the next 10 years? you see what I mean? Also you said that if things outside of your control happen, you'd send us what you have and give us the remaining ammount of our money back. That sounds great, but what if you've ordered everything already and got 90% of our **** together but the blower (the most expensive thing) is nowhere to be found becuase powerdyne can't get their act together. What then? My whole point is yeah you could send us what you have, and just keep the rest of the money claiming that you already ordered it.
Don't take any of this the wrong way becuase I'm not saying that you do this, just saying that there's too many ways here for me to get burned. I'm just not comfortable shelling out two thousand some dollars on blind faith to someone I dont know. Here's a compromise:
What about giving me an inclusive list of the information on the major components that you'd include in my kit (the blower, the pulley, the belt, the BEGi)-- i.e. part numbers, where you order them, etc. I'll buy those on my own (less work for you). All the other components like the mounting brackets, the wiring harnesses, all the piping I'll buy from you. deal?"

pm#14.~~ This is where it gets REAL funny....listen to this.
"Why is it less expensive for you? And how are you directly involved with www.protegegarage.com? It says they're a company based out of IL, you're down in MI. I've been doing a lot of research online and it almost seems as though you, protegegarage.com, hiboost, wagner motorsports, mental addiction motorsports, mazda3club.com, mazda3online.com, and several other forums are all somehow linked up. It almost seems as though you all are in some sort of agreement to talk each other up (shady). Why are you building kits for protegeclub.com? You say that you are just one guy doing this, yet protegegarage.com seems to be a legit company selling just what you're making? this makes no sense. I'm not calling you a con artist but how am I to know that you're not a predator posing as a house pet? In your last emails you made it sound as though I'd be sending you the check in the mail. Now you're saying I will buy it through protegegarage.com? You didn't even mention before to ease my skepticism that I could use a credit card becuase you made it sound as though this was just a one man show. But, protegegarage.com accepts credit cards and you do your business through them? If this is indeed legit, and I were to shell out 2 thousand some dollars out of pocket on blind faith that you won't rip me off, not only will I not use anything other than a credit card but I'm going to need some personal info about you and your company like your full name, where you are based out of, where I may contact you, etc. so that I can keep tabs on the progress of my order. This is not a legitimate business deal if you cannot so much as provide that-- and if that's the case then I'm sorry I'm just going to have to walk away."

Another threat to just walk away (which he hasn't done)..... Apparently it's a HUGE conspiracy and I'm laundering money through my ghost companies in an effort to hide the fact that I take peoples money and run. Woohoo!! someone caught me.

Roddimus Prime

pm#15.
"My Gripe:

First of all if you call being cautious and caring about what happens to my three grand "paranoia" that's fine but to me it's called not being a dumb ***, and I don't need any crap from you about it. I don't think that anyone would be so naive as to give someone 3g's in cash without any sort of protection...if you are then you deserve to have that money taken from you. That's great that you're rich, congradulations... others of us are students and are just getting by, and for those of us who aren't doctors three grand is a lot of money whether you think so or not. Maybe you can afford to throw three thousand dollars out the window but I can't.

Second of all, you can't blame me for being skeptical...I don't know you. To me you're just a name on a computer screen, nothing more. For you to expect me to trust you because you give me your word, and on the premisees that you use this stuff and you have put years of R&D blood sweat and tears into this kit is nothing short of ridiculous. Maybe if I knew you I'd have a little more confidence in your honesty but I don't. To me you're Matty AKA "Roddimus Prime" from east bumble Mississippi...what does that tell me about you and your character-- nothing. So don't go harping on me because I wasn't willing to send a check in the mail to some dude down in MS, and am slightly more intelligent and wary to the BS that goes on around the internet than morons who will blindly hand someone three thousand dollars. Before I do that I'll go shop on ebay-- at least with them you're gauranteed something. On the internet there's no telling who's really your friend and who's just claiming to be your friend so they can rip you off. Let me put things in relative perspective: knowing as little about me as you do would you go ahead and write me a check equaling 100% of your income for two months to some no-name on a computer screen halfway across the country based on something that I claimed I would fabricate for your car? The answer is no, nobody would be so foolish. You may find this hard to believe but if you knew me you'd know that I'm an extremely nice and trusting person... and I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. It is for those reasons that I have been burned several times before by people in the aftermarket tuning industry. Respect of these facts, that's all I'm asking for.

On a lighter note:

I really wish you had told me about your colaboration with protegegarage.com and the fact that I would have to purchase through them anyway in your previous e-mails. Let me ask you a question, you just met me on this forum no more than a few weeks and I've been nothing short of a pain I'm sure-- that's what I do best. But aside from that, knowing that I have to go through a legitimate company to purchase this kit and can use a credit card does somewhat put my mind at ease. You have been a very nice person thus far and I'd really like to "go with the flow" but at the cost of three grand I just cant afford that luxury. You're a pretty cool person I'm sure so don't take any of this personally. If I'm ever in your area I'll buy you a beer and we can laugh about this."


I'm not laughing about any of it. Besides I don't drink alcohol.

pm#16.
"I'm not even going to dignify myself with a response to that last rather childish comment. But i will say one thing, Mississippi, Alabama...they're all the same to me. About the PM's if you're truly out there to help people, you should be happy to answer questions about your kit to people's who's knowledge is lacking. I'm not going to waste hours on end sifting through 100 some pages of posted clutter so that I can maybe find a half answer to my question, THAT's lunacy. I gave you my reasons for my skepticism and I'm not apologizing for the dishonesty of others, all I asked is that you understand it. None of this was a personal attack on you, I TOLD YOU THAT FROM THE BEGINNING, DID I NOT?. If you can't understand that maybe YOU'RE the one whose reading/comprehension need some sharpening. So what do you want an apology for? If you're looking for a fight you're wasting your time-- I'm not looking, nor did I join this forum to make enemies so there's no need to be an *******. Thank you!"

Ok, thats the last one I've received so far.....Here's the question....

DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT I TOLD HIM IN EVERY ONE OF MY REPLIES???

winner gets to be Mod for a day. Read the questions being asked and use some common sense and deduce what I told him from the first post to the last. this will be a funny game.

NeverSober

READ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ! I are the winar!

Roddimus Prime

read is not correct.....you have to be specific.

I R t3h 4dm1N!!

NeverSober

read a book on how these things work

kargoboy

Wow, just read every word of that.
I don't think I'll guess your replies, but the FUNNIEST thing is you and MAM "talking each other up" --obviously he's never gone to msprotege.com! Hahahahahaha.
Okay, hell, here's my guess: "Read the Sticky"

Matty Mooling

do a search

Matty Mooling

wow, i stopped after matty's second post

PJPro5

"I suggest reading "Maximum Boost" by Corky Bell for more answers..it's a GREAT read." from Roddimus Prime.

Phantom Cruiser

Oooof...too many words.

For all of my WOMP-related questions, I do a search in the applicable forum, aka the stickied threads.

JDM-P5

Ha ha...Matty & I discussed this over the 4-day weekend...that would be the most probable answer.

Anywho:
WOMP info 1
WOMP info (OLD SCHOOL!!!!) 2004


-Phil



BTW, the dumbest conversation I ever had went something like this:

Her:"Phil, I think I'm pregnant".
Me:"Ummmm, I used a condom".
Her:"I feel fat, and my tummy has been hurting all day. Did you pull out?".
Me:"Ummmm, you can't be pregnant, as drunk as I was, I distinctly remember pulling out".
Her:"Are you sure? I mean I bought some self tests just incase".
Me:"Wow, for goodness sake, we JUST had sex 2 days ago. You're not pregnant. Get a life".


I didn't make that up. That was an ACTUAL conversation between a Freshman at Auburn University in Auburn, AL and myself....dumbest convo EVAR in my life.

Roddimus Prime

all of the above.

"it seems you do not fully understand the in's and out's of how this sort of stuff woks. Reading this Book will give you a great understanding and answer 90% of your questions. My stickied threads will answer 100% (and the remaining 10% the book doesn't.)"

I'm just curious as to how patient I have to be and how many times I have to repeat myself. Apparently the guy is upset with my "shady business practices" and instead of asking around he requests for me to sign a contract.....and he thinks I'M being unreasonable!! hahahaha.

Matty Mooling

matty, did you actually read all of his pm's?