Bowling for Columbine
June-13th-2003, 06:16 AM
#1
Likwidated
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Bowling for Columbine
Every resident of North America needs to see this. This should be mandatory to watch before giving you a birth certificate.
It's a look at the Columbine shooting and more importantly at what caused it. It's brilliantly made and even features a short bit by the creators of Southpark which is incredibly funny.
It's a look at the Columbine shooting and more importantly at what caused it. It's brilliantly made and even features a short bit by the creators of Southpark which is incredibly funny.
June-13th-2003, 08:03 AM
#2
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Location: PA
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I really liked the park with Matt Stone (or was it Trey Parker? Eh, whatever), they are very intelligent, funny guys.
I don't want to get into a big debate here, I thought it was well done, and it was very interesting. However, I thought it was really biased and anti-government. I'll be the first one to say that I don't agree with everything in the government, but this movie was not so subtle in the film-makers stance on what he thought about it. Michael Moore, right?
Given, you know, that's why you do films like this, to get your point across... But when you're supposedly trying to find the root of the problem, you look at it from all angles, not just say "our government sucks, look at other countries, they don't have our problems...." Must be the GD government!
I also thought some of his points contridicted himself. When he was comparing Canada's violent crime rates with the US (Which is really shocking
), he said that it's not because of the poverty (Canada apparently has a higher unemployment rate, etc.), ethnicities, etc... But then when they do that story on that town outside of detriot or wherever, where those people are welfare to work, they blame the poverty thing on that little girl or little boy bringing the gun to school.
Overall, I thought it was really excellent, very entertaining and interesting, and yet it could have been so much more enjoyable if it was less biased...
But that's just my biased opinion
I don't want to get into a big debate here, I thought it was well done, and it was very interesting. However, I thought it was really biased and anti-government. I'll be the first one to say that I don't agree with everything in the government, but this movie was not so subtle in the film-makers stance on what he thought about it. Michael Moore, right?
Given, you know, that's why you do films like this, to get your point across... But when you're supposedly trying to find the root of the problem, you look at it from all angles, not just say "our government sucks, look at other countries, they don't have our problems...." Must be the GD government!
I also thought some of his points contridicted himself. When he was comparing Canada's violent crime rates with the US (Which is really shocking
), he said that it's not because of the poverty (Canada apparently has a higher unemployment rate, etc.), ethnicities, etc... But then when they do that story on that town outside of detriot or wherever, where those people are welfare to work, they blame the poverty thing on that little girl or little boy bringing the gun to school.Overall, I thought it was really excellent, very entertaining and interesting, and yet it could have been so much more enjoyable if it was less biased...
But that's just my biased opinion
June-13th-2003, 08:34 AM
#3
little asian member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Tucson, AZ
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too bad michael moore heavily edited everything in order to get his "message" across. i'll get back to you guys when i can find that website again that goes to show how much he skews what really happened in order to paint certain people as the bad guys.
he altered his numbers to make things look a little worse than they are. he spliced different speeches together in order for there to be a seemingly seamless transition that makes it sound a whole lot worse than it is.
and did anyone get the point of the movie? so where does our violence come from? he contradicts himself. all of the possible answers he comes up with can be shown to have an opposite affect in another country.
he altered his numbers to make things look a little worse than they are. he spliced different speeches together in order for there to be a seemingly seamless transition that makes it sound a whole lot worse than it is.
and did anyone get the point of the movie? so where does our violence come from? he contradicts himself. all of the possible answers he comes up with can be shown to have an opposite affect in another country.
June-13th-2003, 12:37 PM
#6
formerly chastan
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: California, USA
Posts: 2,350
Originally posted by tonkabui
too bad michael moore heavily edited everything in order to get his "message" across. i'll get back to you guys when i can find that website again that goes to show how much he skews what really happened in order to paint certain people as the bad guys.
he altered his numbers to make things look a little worse than they are. he spliced different speeches together in order for there to be a seemingly seamless transition that makes it sound a whole lot worse than it is.
and did anyone get the point of the movie? so where does our violence come from? he contradicts himself. all of the possible answers he comes up with can be shown to have an opposite affect in another country.
too bad michael moore heavily edited everything in order to get his "message" across. i'll get back to you guys when i can find that website again that goes to show how much he skews what really happened in order to paint certain people as the bad guys.
he altered his numbers to make things look a little worse than they are. he spliced different speeches together in order for there to be a seemingly seamless transition that makes it sound a whole lot worse than it is.
and did anyone get the point of the movie? so where does our violence come from? he contradicts himself. all of the possible answers he comes up with can be shown to have an opposite affect in another country.
http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html
The movie shows lots of interesting things, but nothing that really has anything to do with each other, and it makes no points.
June-14th-2003, 04:09 AM
#7
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Okay, all of you people are offended for the wrong reasons.
First of all, there is NO other countries that have kids killing other kids in schools. No need to bring up statistics, it's just a fact.
Second of all, it's ridiculous to give away guns when you sign up for a bank account at a bank. If you don't find that alarming, then I don't know what is.
Thirdly, that movie was made to show that the TV has alot to do with what goes on in the world and that the audiences are trained to live in fear. It also shows alot of different things that could be fixed, but I guess some of you missed the whole point of it and think that it's just aimed at the government.
I can't believe that some of you don't find the movie interesting. Some of the people that they show in there are ripe enough for a mental institute. I can see how a middle-aged white male living with guns underneath his pillow could not like the movie though.
The Southpark piece was classic by the way
First of all, there is NO other countries that have kids killing other kids in schools. No need to bring up statistics, it's just a fact.
Second of all, it's ridiculous to give away guns when you sign up for a bank account at a bank. If you don't find that alarming, then I don't know what is.
Thirdly, that movie was made to show that the TV has alot to do with what goes on in the world and that the audiences are trained to live in fear. It also shows alot of different things that could be fixed, but I guess some of you missed the whole point of it and think that it's just aimed at the government.
I can't believe that some of you don't find the movie interesting. Some of the people that they show in there are ripe enough for a mental institute. I can see how a middle-aged white male living with guns underneath his pillow could not like the movie though.
The Southpark piece was classic by the way
June-14th-2003, 04:15 AM
#8
Likwidated
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Canada (formerly Yugoslavia)
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Originally posted by Chastan
everybody, PLEASE READ
http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html
everybody, PLEASE READ
http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html
Interesting website. Makes a few good points, I agree with half of them I'd say. I still think that whoever made that website is too caught up in little details and missing the big picture.
June-14th-2003, 07:53 AM
#9
little asian member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 572
he would raise a question, almost provide an answer, then figure out that that answer doesn't hold water. example: the media in canada reports on the same sort of stories in a somewhat sensationalized way. yet, their violence has not increased.
what exactly did he show that we could fix? i didn't see it. his triumph at kmart was a feel good diversion in his movie from the nitty gritty of it all, and that is... our violence problem is bigger than one thing. it's bigger than two things. it's bigger than a million things. no one knows why we are a violent society. it just so happened to turn out that way.
what exactly did he show that we could fix? i didn't see it. his triumph at kmart was a feel good diversion in his movie from the nitty gritty of it all, and that is... our violence problem is bigger than one thing. it's bigger than two things. it's bigger than a million things. no one knows why we are a violent society. it just so happened to turn out that way.
Originally posted by Makaveli
Thirdly, that movie was made to show that the TV has alot to do with what goes on in the world and that the audiences are trained to live in fear. It also shows alot of different things that could be fixed, but I guess some of you missed the whole point of it and think that it's just aimed at the government.
Thirdly, that movie was made to show that the TV has alot to do with what goes on in the world and that the audiences are trained to live in fear. It also shows alot of different things that could be fixed, but I guess some of you missed the whole point of it and think that it's just aimed at the government.
Last edited by tonkabui; June-14th-2003 at 07:58 AM.
June-14th-2003, 09:08 AM
#11
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Originally posted by tonkabui
he would raise a question, almost provide an answer, then figure out that that answer doesn't hold water. example: the media in canada reports on the same sort of stories in a somewhat sensationalized way. yet, their violence has not increased.
he would raise a question, almost provide an answer, then figure out that that answer doesn't hold water. example: the media in canada reports on the same sort of stories in a somewhat sensationalized way. yet, their violence has not increased.
He looked at all the reasons that people provide to explain the violence in the US. He CLEARLY dispatched all those reasons with comparisons to other countries. He did though show throughout the WHOLE movie how easy it is to get guns/arms in the US. He also showed how lightly people take firearms. He also showed on many occasions how the American culture is trained to always be fearing something. So you take this tension, and add guns, and you'll have lots of murders.
what exactly did he show that we could fix? i didn't see it.
his triumph at kmart was a feel good diversion in his movie from the nitty gritty of it all
, and that is... our violence problem is bigger than one thing. it's bigger than two things. it's bigger than a million things. no one knows why we are a violent society. it just so happened to turn out that way.
LOL, anybody remember the guy that has the M16 at his house for 'self protection' hahaha
June-14th-2003, 11:21 AM
#12
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 572
1. it is easy to get guns in america
2. americans always fear something
3. the kids at columbine were scared, so they murdered people with the guns they easily got.
is that what you are saying? that was the backdrop for the movie, wasn't it? yet it is my understanding that these kids did not live in fear. they lived in a world of self hatred, which kindled itself into the manifestation of an outwardly and illogical hate towards others.
the little boy who shot the girl at the elementary school... even moore said no one knows why he did it.
it has been shown and proven that the charleton heston speeches at the NRA conventions were spliced and edited so as to fit what moore was trying to convey. if he was a journalist who edited people's quotes the way he did, he would be fired! some documentary!!!
look at the shirt heston was wearing in the movie when he said "from my cold dead hands." it's not the same shirt as when he was giving the speech in denver. clear as day, there was some misinformation on the part of moore.
because of this, i have to second guess everything that was said in that movie.
really though... what was his solution to all of this? instead of holding the people who commit these crimes responsible, is it now the fault of the NRA and the media?
chris rock once said something to the affect: the media has never robbed me, but a @#$%# has. and i agree with this. dan rather is not going to come chasing me down an alley with a gun. the bastard who is chasing me down the alley isn't scared. but he sure did get the gun easily.
speaking of getting guns easily, in canada, there are more guns than there are people. and the houses there are never locked. and they get pretty much the same news coverage as we do. yet their crime rates aren't high. they have the same premises for violence that you say, don't they? easy access to guns, the media insighting fear into the general populace, etc. etc. hmmm... kinda makes you wonder.
2. americans always fear something
3. the kids at columbine were scared, so they murdered people with the guns they easily got.
is that what you are saying? that was the backdrop for the movie, wasn't it? yet it is my understanding that these kids did not live in fear. they lived in a world of self hatred, which kindled itself into the manifestation of an outwardly and illogical hate towards others.
the little boy who shot the girl at the elementary school... even moore said no one knows why he did it.
it has been shown and proven that the charleton heston speeches at the NRA conventions were spliced and edited so as to fit what moore was trying to convey. if he was a journalist who edited people's quotes the way he did, he would be fired! some documentary!!!
look at the shirt heston was wearing in the movie when he said "from my cold dead hands." it's not the same shirt as when he was giving the speech in denver. clear as day, there was some misinformation on the part of moore.
because of this, i have to second guess everything that was said in that movie.
really though... what was his solution to all of this? instead of holding the people who commit these crimes responsible, is it now the fault of the NRA and the media?
chris rock once said something to the affect: the media has never robbed me, but a @#$%# has. and i agree with this. dan rather is not going to come chasing me down an alley with a gun. the bastard who is chasing me down the alley isn't scared. but he sure did get the gun easily.
speaking of getting guns easily, in canada, there are more guns than there are people. and the houses there are never locked. and they get pretty much the same news coverage as we do. yet their crime rates aren't high. they have the same premises for violence that you say, don't they? easy access to guns, the media insighting fear into the general populace, etc. etc. hmmm... kinda makes you wonder.
Originally posted by Makaveli
Okay, well if you really want me to explain, here I go.....
He looked at all the reasons that people provide to explain the violence in the US. He CLEARLY dispatched all those reasons with comparisons to other countries. He did though show throughout the WHOLE movie how easy it is to get guns/arms in the US. He also showed how lightly people take firearms. He also showed on many occasions how the American culture is trained to always be fearing something. So you take this tension, and add guns, and you'll have lots of murders.
Just because there is a problem doesn't mean that you should look the other way. Wouldn't you be mad if someone killed a member of your family with a gun and then you had Charles Heston come in into your backyard the next day with an NRA campaign. If anything, this movie exposed the NRA a bit and how irresponsible and irrational some folks can be, yet have a gun license and have some ridiculously big guns for (self protection).
LOL, anybody remember the guy that has the M16 at his house for 'self protection' hahaha
Okay, well if you really want me to explain, here I go.....
He looked at all the reasons that people provide to explain the violence in the US. He CLEARLY dispatched all those reasons with comparisons to other countries. He did though show throughout the WHOLE movie how easy it is to get guns/arms in the US. He also showed how lightly people take firearms. He also showed on many occasions how the American culture is trained to always be fearing something. So you take this tension, and add guns, and you'll have lots of murders.
Just because there is a problem doesn't mean that you should look the other way. Wouldn't you be mad if someone killed a member of your family with a gun and then you had Charles Heston come in into your backyard the next day with an NRA campaign. If anything, this movie exposed the NRA a bit and how irresponsible and irrational some folks can be, yet have a gun license and have some ridiculously big guns for (self protection).
LOL, anybody remember the guy that has the M16 at his house for 'self protection' hahaha
Last edited by tonkabui; June-14th-2003 at 11:26 AM.
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