Ardvarks?
January-23rd-2003, 09:30 AM
#31
lost
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Warren, MI
Posts: 838
Actually Job chapter 40 discusses dinosaurs very clearly, it gives very good descriptions of a couple of land dwelling dinosaurs and water dwelling dinosaurs.
Also as a side note it is an interesting fact that almost every culture and belief from ancient times has a flood story very much like, though all slightly different, the one in the bible
Also as a side note it is an interesting fact that almost every culture and belief from ancient times has a flood story very much like, though all slightly different, the one in the bible
January-23rd-2003, 10:09 AM
#32
Bruce Leroy
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 788
I don't see anything about dinosaurs in the the verse you quoted:
Also, first, there's no such thing as "water-dwelling" dinosaurs. Some dinosaurs may have entered the water occassionally, but the "dinosaurs" were strictly land-based creatures.
Secondly, AFAIK, the Bible cannot explain how dinosaurs existed before man. According to the Bible, Adam brought sin into the world (and therefore death). Science has shown that dinosaurs existed 65 million years before man. How? EVIDENCE (ie. the fossil record).
In terms of floods, I hear about floods all the time too...in the newspaper. What may have been of "biblical proportions" to a small village is 6th page news in a local newspaper. Anybody hear about the huge earthquake in Mexico recently? I'm guessing some have, but I'm willing to bet there's more than a few that haven't. My point? Natural disasters happen...they happened in the past and they happen today. Just because somebody made a story up about a flood "covering the earth" doesn't make it true.
I think you have to take a step back here...the Bible is in no way a scientific manual. It is a spiritual book full of nice stories.
The Holy Bible: King James Version. 2000.
The Book of Job
40
1 Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said,
2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him?
He that reproveth God, let him answer it.
3 ¶ Then Job answered the LORD, and said,
4 Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee?
I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.
5 Once have I spoken; but I will not answer:
yea, twice; but I will proceed no further.
The Manifestations of God's Power
6 ¶ Then answered the LORD unto Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
7 Gird up thy loins now like a man:
I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment?
Wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?
9 Hast thou an arm like God?
Or canst thou thunder with a voice like him?
10 Deck thyself now with majesty and excellency;
and array thyself with glory and beauty.
11 Cast abroad the rage of thy wrath:
and behold every one that is proud, and abase him.
12 Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low;
and tread down the wicked in their place.
13 Hide them in the dust together;
and bind their faces in secret.
14 Then will I also confess unto thee
that thine own right hand can save thee.
15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee;
he eateth grass as an ox.
16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins,
and his force is in the navel of his belly.
17 He moveth his tail like a cedar:
the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass;
his bones are like bars of iron.
19 He is the chief of the ways of God:
he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.
20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food,
where all the beasts of the field play.
21 He lieth under the shady trees,
in the covert of the reed, and fens.
22 The shady trees cover him with their shadow;
the willows of the brook compass him about.
23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not:
he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.
24 He taketh it with his eyes:
his nose pierceth through snares.
The Book of Job
40
1 Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said,
2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him?
He that reproveth God, let him answer it.
3 ¶ Then Job answered the LORD, and said,
4 Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee?
I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.
5 Once have I spoken; but I will not answer:
yea, twice; but I will proceed no further.
The Manifestations of God's Power
6 ¶ Then answered the LORD unto Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
7 Gird up thy loins now like a man:
I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment?
Wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?
9 Hast thou an arm like God?
Or canst thou thunder with a voice like him?
10 Deck thyself now with majesty and excellency;
and array thyself with glory and beauty.
11 Cast abroad the rage of thy wrath:
and behold every one that is proud, and abase him.
12 Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low;
and tread down the wicked in their place.
13 Hide them in the dust together;
and bind their faces in secret.
14 Then will I also confess unto thee
that thine own right hand can save thee.
15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee;
he eateth grass as an ox.
16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins,
and his force is in the navel of his belly.
17 He moveth his tail like a cedar:
the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass;
his bones are like bars of iron.
19 He is the chief of the ways of God:
he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.
20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food,
where all the beasts of the field play.
21 He lieth under the shady trees,
in the covert of the reed, and fens.
22 The shady trees cover him with their shadow;
the willows of the brook compass him about.
23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not:
he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.
24 He taketh it with his eyes:
his nose pierceth through snares.
Secondly, AFAIK, the Bible cannot explain how dinosaurs existed before man. According to the Bible, Adam brought sin into the world (and therefore death). Science has shown that dinosaurs existed 65 million years before man. How? EVIDENCE (ie. the fossil record).
In terms of floods, I hear about floods all the time too...in the newspaper. What may have been of "biblical proportions" to a small village is 6th page news in a local newspaper. Anybody hear about the huge earthquake in Mexico recently? I'm guessing some have, but I'm willing to bet there's more than a few that haven't. My point? Natural disasters happen...they happened in the past and they happen today. Just because somebody made a story up about a flood "covering the earth" doesn't make it true.
I think you have to take a step back here...the Bible is in no way a scientific manual. It is a spiritual book full of nice stories.
January-23rd-2003, 10:15 AM
#33
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 349
Question on Evolution for fossil boy
Have you considered that speciation has occurred again recently in homo sapiens sapiens resulting in three new groups:
1. Those who drive Proteges
2. Those who drive Hondas
3. Those who drive anything other than Proteges or Hondas
Simple observation would force one to conclude that the Protege group is the most highly evolved and intelligent of the three groups with the Honda group at the low end of the scale and the 'all others' group somewhere in between.
Of course, scientific knowledge cannot be based on observation alone. We need objective experimental studies to arrive at definitive conclusions here.
I hope some of you Forum members will take up the challenge.
02 DX Millenium Red
MP3 Strut Tower Bar kit
AEM Short Ram intake (sometimes)
1. Those who drive Proteges
2. Those who drive Hondas
3. Those who drive anything other than Proteges or Hondas
Simple observation would force one to conclude that the Protege group is the most highly evolved and intelligent of the three groups with the Honda group at the low end of the scale and the 'all others' group somewhere in between.
Of course, scientific knowledge cannot be based on observation alone. We need objective experimental studies to arrive at definitive conclusions here.
I hope some of you Forum members will take up the challenge.
02 DX Millenium Red
MP3 Strut Tower Bar kit
AEM Short Ram intake (sometimes)
January-23rd-2003, 10:20 AM
#34
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,130
Well dont u think a 50 foot tall monster trying to kill u would of made it in atleast one chapter in the book.. plus the earth shows existance of dinosaurs millions of years ago and humans thousands .. Did god make the earth for the dinosaurs first? Then was like well they suck lets kill them and make humans ?...Jon
January-23rd-2003, 10:47 AM
#35
lost
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Warren, MI
Posts: 838
first difference in a species don't make evolution true after all are they not still the same species? no matter what car you drive or color your skin you are you are still human or do you believe a black person or hispanic person is less human than a white person? hmm hitler believed that.
There are many purely aquatic dinosaurs, plesiosaurus, icthosaurus, and many others, i studied palentology to get my geology degree.
OH and i was in the right chapter and it follows into the chapter after job40:
Chapter 40 verse 15 describes the behemoth as a vegetarian animal with a tail as large as a cedar a bone structure that was hollowand lives in swampy areas, sounds like two dinosaurs i studied in my paleo classes.
chapter 41 one verse after you stopped speaks of the leviathan a lizard so large and fearful that men stayed far away from it and could not subdue it, and if you want to argue the validity of later versus describing a fire breathing version how about the beattle in germany that shoots a small jet style flame out of its back end, if a bettle can do it why not a lizard with the same basic glands
There are many purely aquatic dinosaurs, plesiosaurus, icthosaurus, and many others, i studied palentology to get my geology degree.
OH and i was in the right chapter and it follows into the chapter after job40:
Chapter 40 verse 15 describes the behemoth as a vegetarian animal with a tail as large as a cedar a bone structure that was hollowand lives in swampy areas, sounds like two dinosaurs i studied in my paleo classes.
chapter 41 one verse after you stopped speaks of the leviathan a lizard so large and fearful that men stayed far away from it and could not subdue it, and if you want to argue the validity of later versus describing a fire breathing version how about the beattle in germany that shoots a small jet style flame out of its back end, if a bettle can do it why not a lizard with the same basic glands
January-23rd-2003, 11:11 AM
#36
Bruce Leroy
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 788
There are many purely aquatic dinosaurs, plesiosaurus, icthosaurus, and many others, i studied palentology to get my geology degree.
Check this cladogram: http://www.palaeos.com/Vertebrates/L...00Summary.html
Note, in particular, the branches of "LEPIDOSAUROMORPHA" (plesiosaurs, etc), "PTEROSAURIA" (pterodactyls, etc), and "DINOSAUROMORPHA" (dinosaurs). The cladogram indicates that the Lepidosauromorpha and pterosauria are related to dinosaurs, but they are NOT dinosaurs.
January-23rd-2003, 11:11 AM
#37
protege5.0
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 796
Originally posted by protegeboy78
first difference in a species don't make evolution true after all are they not still the same species? no matter what car you drive or color your skin you are you are still human or do you believe a black person or hispanic person is less human than a white person? hmm hitler believed that.
first difference in a species don't make evolution true after all are they not still the same species? no matter what car you drive or color your skin you are you are still human or do you believe a black person or hispanic person is less human than a white person? hmm hitler believed that.
WTF? who said that?
we all came from the same root.l
January-23rd-2003, 11:28 AM
#39
Bruce Leroy
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 788
I've found your fire-breathing dinosaur!!!
And he's attacking Babylon too!!
http://www.archaeology.org/magazine....godzilla/index
And he's attacking Babylon too!!
http://www.archaeology.org/magazine....godzilla/index
January-23rd-2003, 12:41 PM
#40
Thread Killa'
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: k-town, USA
Posts: 326
Re: Question on Evolution for fossil boy
Originally posted by goldstar
Have you considered that speciation has occurred again recently in homo sapiens sapiens resulting in three new groups:
1. Those who drive Proteges
2. Those who drive Hondas
3. Those who drive anything other than Proteges or Hondas
Simple observation would force one to conclude that the Protege group is the most highly evolved and intelligent of the three groups with the Honda group at the low end of the scale and the 'all others' group somewhere in between.
Of course, scientific knowledge cannot be based on observation alone. We need objective experimental studies to arrive at definitive conclusions here.
I hope some of you Forum members will take up the challenge.
02 DX Millenium Red
MP3 Strut Tower Bar kit
AEM Short Ram intake (sometimes)
Have you considered that speciation has occurred again recently in homo sapiens sapiens resulting in three new groups:
1. Those who drive Proteges
2. Those who drive Hondas
3. Those who drive anything other than Proteges or Hondas
Simple observation would force one to conclude that the Protege group is the most highly evolved and intelligent of the three groups with the Honda group at the low end of the scale and the 'all others' group somewhere in between.
Of course, scientific knowledge cannot be based on observation alone. We need objective experimental studies to arrive at definitive conclusions here.
I hope some of you Forum members will take up the challenge.
02 DX Millenium Red
MP3 Strut Tower Bar kit
AEM Short Ram intake (sometimes)
I agree completely. Truthfully, though I lurked around reading months before I registered, the reason why I became enticed to join the "club" was b/c of the lucid and intellectual conversations that sprout here...
Hondas are just evolutionary experimentation. Both Toyota and Honda, though diversifying, have migrated from their home islands building new colonies. I think this puts them at risk from exotic parasites and genetic mixing with the North American metal..
The smaller evolutionary tree of Mazda could be interpreted as more robust, since, in face of environmental gradients, this group had no need to diversify quite as much. There is however, great concern for Mazda, in terms of predation by more larger creatures, such as FORD. Hopefully, agility and strong support from symbiotic relationships with Humans will enable this wiley creature to endure.
January-23rd-2003, 01:07 PM
#41
Protege Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Windsor, Nova Scotia Canada
Posts: 174
Now I'm no science major but from what I remeber of the theory of naturel selection it seems as if all others will fall to the perfection found in Mazda. While other organizations thrived in past eras the winds of change are blowing. The old outdated concepts no longer apply and the new breed of Mazda is riding the crest of the wave to the future. Fast, nimble and superior quality are exactly the survival traits needed to succeed in this car eat car world.
My contention is that the new Mazda lineup is indeed the hallmark of a vehicular revolution! Let the gas guzzling, lead lined, SUV laden lineups quiver in their heated, leather lined garages! The car for drivers has arrived and will soon sound the death knell to all other creatures of the concrete jungle!
ROAR 2.0L ROAR
My contention is that the new Mazda lineup is indeed the hallmark of a vehicular revolution! Let the gas guzzling, lead lined, SUV laden lineups quiver in their heated, leather lined garages! The car for drivers has arrived and will soon sound the death knell to all other creatures of the concrete jungle!
ROAR 2.0L ROAR
January-23rd-2003, 01:31 PM
#42
Protege Enthusiast
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 139
I cannot believe this is beeing discussed on the forum. Ive learned there are two things that shouldnt be discussed , Religion and politics. Trust me as hard as you might try to convince someone of your beliefs, no matter how legitimate your points are , it wont happen. Everyone has different oppinions about theese two topics, and I dont think any of this talk will sway somones fellings towards them.
January-23rd-2003, 01:40 PM
#43
Bruce Leroy
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 788
Originally posted by MazspeedPro
I cannot believe this is beeing discussed on the forum. Ive learned there are two things that shouldnt be discussed , Religion and politics. Trust me as hard as you might try to convince someone of your beliefs, no matter how legitimate your points are , it wont happen. Everyone has different oppinions about theese two topics, and I dont think any of this talk will sway somones fellings towards them.
I cannot believe this is beeing discussed on the forum. Ive learned there are two things that shouldnt be discussed , Religion and politics. Trust me as hard as you might try to convince someone of your beliefs, no matter how legitimate your points are , it wont happen. Everyone has different oppinions about theese two topics, and I dont think any of this talk will sway somones fellings towards them.
Still, I also don't think that there is anything wrong with discussion...even if it is about religion or politics. Heck, what's the point in even talking to anybody if everybody agreed all the time?
The discussion so far has been...entertaining, if nothing more.