Finally drove a Speed3
May-1st-2007, 12:31 AM
#1
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: STL MO
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Finally drove a Speed3
So I finally got around to test driving a Mazdaspeed3 today. I know the salesman, gave him a call ahead of time and he had it waiting for me. He threw me the keys when I drove up, and off I was. I put about 40 miles on the car, it only had 10 to start with 
Here's my thoughts.
Front wheel drive, ugh. I just don't know if I can do it. Torque steer is pretty well controlled, but it's still there, and it bugs the crap out of me! Also once during a hard shift into second on a smooth road got a BANG wheel-hop.
Really good punch out of corners. I did most of my driving on a very twisty road here in St Louis. The best feel came when punching it coming out of a corner around 3500rpm in 2nd or 3rd gear. Power comes on smooth and fast! It's enough to set you back in the seat.
Unfortunately it really does run out of gas above 6000rpm. It was hard for me to get used to that powerband, driving RX-7's for years. I'm used to shifting about 200rpm above redline, and there being steady pull all the way up. With this car in stock form, you really need to shift around 6200-6300rpm.
Gears seem too close together, this could be due to me not staying in the powerband, but I'd prefer a bit more time in 2nd and 3rd gears.
Good borderline great handling, responds very well to application of power mid-corner. Turn-in is a bit vague, but mid-corner and exit were firm and predictable - no surprises (fortunately ).
Fantastic seats, nuff said there. I could sit in them all day!
Steering was stiffer than I expected. I was starting to get used to it by the end of the drive, but still I'd expect if it's going to be that stiff to get better handling feedback through the wheel. I guess that just doesn't happen with front wheel drive cars though.
Brakes were fantastic, I laid on them hard a couple times and they felt just like I'd want them to. Likewise the clutch and pedal were very nice, shifter was smooth - absolutely no complaints there.
Overall, I really enjoyed the car and it's a steal for the price - but I don't know if it's for me or not. I think I like the Speed6 better, it's AWD implementation makes the things I don't like about FWD disappear. But the Speed3 feels much more nimble and tossable.
Questions for those who own and have modded a Speed3. Would an intake and downpipe let the car pull hard up to redline? Maybe with the addition of an ECU also? And how much do stiffer motor mounts help clean up the torque steer?
If I knew I could get steady pull to redline and less torque steer, I'd but one tomorrow. In addition to those things I'd upgrade the shocks/springs to tighten up the turn-in. Still after those mods it would be cheaper than anything comparable - and with a very nice interior!
I'd appreciate any feedback or questions.
Here's my thoughts.Front wheel drive, ugh. I just don't know if I can do it. Torque steer is pretty well controlled, but it's still there, and it bugs the crap out of me! Also once during a hard shift into second on a smooth road got a BANG wheel-hop.
Really good punch out of corners. I did most of my driving on a very twisty road here in St Louis. The best feel came when punching it coming out of a corner around 3500rpm in 2nd or 3rd gear. Power comes on smooth and fast! It's enough to set you back in the seat.
Unfortunately it really does run out of gas above 6000rpm. It was hard for me to get used to that powerband, driving RX-7's for years. I'm used to shifting about 200rpm above redline, and there being steady pull all the way up. With this car in stock form, you really need to shift around 6200-6300rpm.
Gears seem too close together, this could be due to me not staying in the powerband, but I'd prefer a bit more time in 2nd and 3rd gears.
Good borderline great handling, responds very well to application of power mid-corner. Turn-in is a bit vague, but mid-corner and exit were firm and predictable - no surprises (fortunately
).Fantastic seats, nuff said there. I could sit in them all day!
Steering was stiffer than I expected. I was starting to get used to it by the end of the drive, but still I'd expect if it's going to be that stiff to get better handling feedback through the wheel. I guess that just doesn't happen with front wheel drive cars though.
Brakes were fantastic, I laid on them hard a couple times and they felt just like I'd want them to. Likewise the clutch and pedal were very nice, shifter was smooth - absolutely no complaints there.
Overall, I really enjoyed the car and it's a steal for the price - but I don't know if it's for me or not. I think I like the Speed6 better, it's AWD implementation makes the things I don't like about FWD disappear. But the Speed3 feels much more nimble and tossable.
Questions for those who own and have modded a Speed3. Would an intake and downpipe let the car pull hard up to redline? Maybe with the addition of an ECU also? And how much do stiffer motor mounts help clean up the torque steer?
If I knew I could get steady pull to redline and less torque steer, I'd but one tomorrow. In addition to those things I'd upgrade the shocks/springs to tighten up the turn-in. Still after those mods it would be cheaper than anything comparable - and with a very nice interior!
I'd appreciate any feedback or questions.
May-1st-2007, 07:45 AM
#2
The man behind the mask
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 11,572
all you'd need is a full exhaust and an XEDE piggyback and you'd have more on your hands than you could handle. ...in the neighborhood of 280whp 309wtq.
I love my MS6 and I debated about buying the MS3 for the extra speed it has once you're moving but I LOVE the AWD of the MS6...I'll never go back to a fwd with a turbo. It's night and day.
I love my MS6 and I debated about buying the MS3 for the extra speed it has once you're moving but I LOVE the AWD of the MS6...I'll never go back to a fwd with a turbo. It's night and day.
May-1st-2007, 12:03 PM
#3
I can has autox now?
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ASC, GA
Posts: 3,381
I havent had a chance to test drive one yet.... I did see one going down the road yesterday (1st i've seen off the lot)... some old guy driving 35 in a 45.. doh! i'm gave 'em the thumbs up as i passed 'em haha
May-1st-2007, 12:21 PM
#4
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all you'd need is a full exhaust and an XEDE piggyback and you'd have more on your hands than you could handle. ...in the neighborhood of 280whp 309wtq.
I love my MS6 and I debated about buying the MS3 for the extra speed it has once you're moving but I LOVE the AWD of the MS6...I'll never go back to a fwd with a turbo. It's night and day.
I love my MS6 and I debated about buying the MS3 for the extra speed it has once you're moving but I LOVE the AWD of the MS6...I'll never go back to a fwd with a turbo. It's night and day.
So tell me Matty, does you Speed6 pull to the redline now or does it still fall off around 6000?
May-2nd-2007, 01:32 PM
#5
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Join Date: May 2007
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You need to give yourself some more time with the car. My primary weekend/track car is a Porsche 997S, and before that a ZO6. It was time to trade the old 4Runner daily driver, so I bought a Speed3. Even after several test drives, I wasn't sure I was making the right decision. I've had it now about a month, and I can honestly say I am very happy with it. It has all the room and utility I need on a daily basis, and I have grown to really enjoy driving the car. Between the turbo lag, torque steer, and general handling characteristics of a front driver, it continues to be a challenge to drive smoothly near the limit. But really, I think that is part of the fun. When I got in it the other day after a weekend track school with the Porsche, I felt like I was driving a step ladder on wheels. But then I got comfortable again with the body movement, and all the different input it gives you. I might even take it to the track some time.
Yes, it definitely falls off power just over 6K rpms. But, that's not all bad. It sure keeps you away from the rev limiter. And with the boost coming on around 2,200, it has more low-end torque than I expected, so it's really not hard to keep it on power. I think it would take some programming to alter the boost profile. And then you might get into some engine durability issues. You would for sure get into some warranty issues.
Overall, after a month, I now consider it a neat little car; challenging to drive well, but fun. For more serious driving (track), the car needs quite a bit more spring and damper, especially in front. But then you might get into even greater understeer. Having no experience with setting up a front drive car, I think I'll leave it alone for now. If you are locked into the feel of a well-balanced rwd car, it's never going to feel like that, but that doesn't mean it can't be just as fast.
Yes, it definitely falls off power just over 6K rpms. But, that's not all bad. It sure keeps you away from the rev limiter. And with the boost coming on around 2,200, it has more low-end torque than I expected, so it's really not hard to keep it on power. I think it would take some programming to alter the boost profile. And then you might get into some engine durability issues. You would for sure get into some warranty issues.
Overall, after a month, I now consider it a neat little car; challenging to drive well, but fun. For more serious driving (track), the car needs quite a bit more spring and damper, especially in front. But then you might get into even greater understeer. Having no experience with setting up a front drive car, I think I'll leave it alone for now. If you are locked into the feel of a well-balanced rwd car, it's never going to feel like that, but that doesn't mean it can't be just as fast.
May-2nd-2007, 04:02 PM
#6
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Yea, the first thing I'd do if I had a Speed3 would be a set of adjustable coil-overs. RX-7's really spoil you for bite on turn-in. But I'm like you, never messed with suspension setups on a FWD car, so the same paradigms don't always apply.
That, and essentially losing the last 800rpm of potential power-band are my only real issues with the car. But the decision of either a Speed3, Speed6, or CX-7 is going to be a tough one.
That, and essentially losing the last 800rpm of potential power-band are my only real issues with the car. But the decision of either a Speed3, Speed6, or CX-7 is going to be a tough one.
May-2nd-2007, 08:32 PM
#7
I can has autox now?
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ASC, GA
Posts: 3,381
Yea, the first thing I'd do if I had a Speed3 would be a set of adjustable coil-overs. RX-7's really spoil you for bite on turn-in. But I'm like you, never messed with suspension setups on a FWD car, so the same paradigms don't always apply.
That, and essentially losing the last 800rpm of potential power-band are my only real issues with the car. But the decision of either a Speed3, Speed6, or CX-7 is going to be a tough one.
That, and essentially losing the last 800rpm of potential power-band are my only real issues with the car. But the decision of either a Speed3, Speed6, or CX-7 is going to be a tough one.
May-2nd-2007, 08:46 PM
#8
The man behind the mask
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 11,572
ryan, still no quick reply feature??
I haven't gotten my XEDE yet. I'm still waiting on my TMIC I paid for in december....
Here's what I'll be running very soon...
MS6
mazdaspeed CAI
ATP catless 3" downpipe
ATP GT3076R
XEDE piggyback
custom borla catback
upgraded motor mounts
If I had to guess I'd put down in the 400awhp range with about 380-425awtq.....should be good for low 12's quarters with 120+mph traps.
Figure up about $1600 for the turbo and $1000 for the tuner and you still look stock and can run with the big dogs?? come on...you can't beat that.
Conversely, you try to throw that into a MS3 and you'll never be able to get it to hook up. I just put a GT28RS turbo on my brothers 1.8L corolla and it's damn near undriveable under 45mph...it only made 309whp and 260wtq.
I haven't gotten my XEDE yet. I'm still waiting on my TMIC I paid for in december....
Here's what I'll be running very soon...
MS6
mazdaspeed CAI
ATP catless 3" downpipe
ATP GT3076R
XEDE piggyback
custom borla catback
upgraded motor mounts
If I had to guess I'd put down in the 400awhp range with about 380-425awtq.....should be good for low 12's quarters with 120+mph traps.
Figure up about $1600 for the turbo and $1000 for the tuner and you still look stock and can run with the big dogs?? come on...you can't beat that.
Conversely, you try to throw that into a MS3 and you'll never be able to get it to hook up. I just put a GT28RS turbo on my brothers 1.8L corolla and it's damn near undriveable under 45mph...it only made 309whp and 260wtq.
May-2nd-2007, 10:36 PM
#9
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Orlando and Sarasota, FL
Posts: 12
I'm a guy from the RX8 side of things and my 8's lease is coming up, so I've started the hunt again.
I've driven the SI and outed the GTI (reliability) and the WRX (just barely overpriced), so now the MS3 came up to bat. Well, long story short, I've been telling just about everyone who will listen how much I loved that car. I'm absolutely intoxicated by it, I can't stop thinking about driving it again. It's just a hair outside my price range (as is the SI - looking at 20 or less), but I'm doing everything I can to make the numbers work on that monster. It's AMAZING.
Anyway, I figure I'll throw this in here. I haven't searched, but I'm sure it has been asked - what kind of prices are people paying for the Speed 3s now? Is it getting more realistic to be looking for $500-1000 under MSRP?
I've driven the SI and outed the GTI (reliability) and the WRX (just barely overpriced), so now the MS3 came up to bat. Well, long story short, I've been telling just about everyone who will listen how much I loved that car. I'm absolutely intoxicated by it, I can't stop thinking about driving it again. It's just a hair outside my price range (as is the SI - looking at 20 or less), but I'm doing everything I can to make the numbers work on that monster. It's AMAZING.
Anyway, I figure I'll throw this in here. I haven't searched, but I'm sure it has been asked - what kind of prices are people paying for the Speed 3s now? Is it getting more realistic to be looking for $500-1000 under MSRP?
Last edited by Rhawb; May-2nd-2007 at 10:43 PM.
May-3rd-2007, 07:44 AM
#10
The man behind the mask
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 11,572
anyone that pays msrp for a mazdaspeed vehicle is a sucker. IIRC I bought my MSP for $1000under MSRP (like $100 over invoice) when they first came out and I had the first MSP in Birmingham, AL.
The MSM's were stickered for $26k and were selling for $17k last I saw....my dealer couldn't give them away.
My MS6 msrp was $30k and I got out for $23,595....$9k for the lease period and $14k for the residual.
I wouldn't pay a penny over invoice for a speed product. Just tell the dealership how they like to rot on the lot and bring up the stats I just mentioned. Hell it's not THAT hard to do because my dealer still has like 6 MS6's on the lot from 06.
The MSM's were stickered for $26k and were selling for $17k last I saw....my dealer couldn't give them away.
My MS6 msrp was $30k and I got out for $23,595....$9k for the lease period and $14k for the residual.
I wouldn't pay a penny over invoice for a speed product. Just tell the dealership how they like to rot on the lot and bring up the stats I just mentioned. Hell it's not THAT hard to do because my dealer still has like 6 MS6's on the lot from 06.
May-3rd-2007, 10:54 AM
#12
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Orlando and Sarasota, FL
Posts: 12
Anyway, it seems I've found a way to comfortably afford it, so now it's just a matter of going to war with the stealership - I think I'll be happy to settle with about a grand under MSRP at this point. I'll keep your stats in mind, Roddimus, thanks for the info. I'll be around and I'll let you all know if there's any news.
May-3rd-2007, 11:05 AM
#13
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2
[QUOTE=...I wouldn't pay a penny over invoice for a speed product. Just tell the dealership how they like to rot on the lot and bring up the stats I just mentioned. Hell it's not THAT hard to do because my dealer still has like 6 MS6's on the lot from 06.[/QUOTE]
Consider yourself lucky. At our local dealership the Speed models sell a few days after they arrive. They'll deal off of MSRP on almost any car except the Speeds.
Consider yourself lucky. At our local dealership the Speed models sell a few days after they arrive. They'll deal off of MSRP on almost any car except the Speeds.
May-3rd-2007, 12:33 PM
#14
The man behind the mask
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 11,572
mark my words though.... they may be getting a premium for them when theyare first on the scene but they will be going with 3500 rabtes like the MS6's, MSM's, MSP's all did... history has a way of repeating itsself.
May-3rd-2007, 01:19 PM
#15
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2
You could be right...I can't wait! I've wanted an MS3 since I first read about them and my local Ford dealership has wronged me for the last time. I'm trading in my SVT Focus and my '06 F250 for a 2007 MS3 this Saturday. I'll pay the premium to be rid of Ford!