Fast DX

Hi all, I'm Steve Wynne from Oregon and I'm in the process of setting up my new '03 Protege DX for stock class autocross competition. I've got a lot of experience with some success in my '95 ACR Neon in STS over the last few years so, I imagine most of the adjustments and driving techniques will be quite similar. The Protege is a fine car, some of my initial impressions of the car compared to my Neon are that it has faster steering, a stiffer chassis, plenty of power, and very neutral handling for a bone-stock car on crappy street tires. Plus, it weighs only about a 120 lbs more than my ACR.

It's first event will be next weekend. The 205/50-15 V700s should arrive sometime this week and I'll get them mounted on the '02 LX wheels I got out of the local junkyard. Yeah, I know, probably not the optimum wheel/tire setup but it's a start. Here's some questions I'd appreciate answers, to:

1. How much gas do I need in the car to avoid starvation on an autox course?

2. What does 2nd gear top out at?

3. Will a LX or ES gauge cluster plug right in? (No tach on a DX)

4. Has anybody run 225/45-15 tires on the front? Did they work/fit? Seems like there's plenty of clearance to the strut tower.

5. Are "crash bolts" permitted by the FSM? I saw they're available in the FAQ section but since I don't have a FSM yet, I'm wondering if they are legal for stock.

6. Anybody run without a muffler? Bone-stock, the car is way too quiet Plus, that muffler looks very heavy but, I don't want to lose power if removing it will cause that.

Thanks in advance,

Steve W.

carguycw

1. I haven't had any problems with 1/4-1/2 tank.

2. About 50-55 mph.

3. Yes, but it's not Stock legal.

4. Yes, Jason Minehart (Jas00x) runs them on the front. He is the most serious H-stock G3 Protege autocrosser in the country AFAIK, and he hangs out on this forum. Last I heard, he was running 99+ Miata wheels, which have 5mm less offset than Protege wheels, but I can't recall if he has to use spacers or not.

5. No, they are not currently legal. Jason and I are praying for a TSB. We are not as lucky as Neon owners.

6. My car is still wearing the stock muffler.

Mandatory disclaimer: I run my Pro in the local Street Tire class, so I can't really comment on tires and serious chassis setup.

dmitrik4

i run my '02 ES in H stock (in a very competitive Philly region). it has turned out to be pretty competitive in class (as long as the driver is not screwing up i usually end up in the top 3 out of ~7-10 in class), i've been seriously autoXing since january. i ran the winter series (jan-apr) on my stock tires (which are pretty good for OEM).

recently picked up a set of 205/45/16 Ecsta V700s on a spare set of stock rims, and that has helped a lot...i'm thinking about a set of MSP struts since there doesn't seem to be much else out there. i haven't figured out the best tire pressures yet, but usually run ~42F and ~31R, which leaves me neutral enough.

i usually run w/ 1/4 tank and haven't had any problems.

i don't think there's much to gain from exhaust mods...

i haven't seen a lot of other HS people, so it's nice to run into a few.

continuing to mod the driver... after all, that's free.

carguycw

Oh yeah, I forgot about that.

Jas00x

Um yeah- what Jesse said.

First of all, sign up for the Mazda Motorsports Support Program!

no problem with the 225's up front and I highly recommend them.

I also recommend toe out on the front (zero in the back).
I used to change the toe before and after the event, driving on the street very long with toe out will eat up the tires.

As mentioned before, I started running STS. I just bought the AWR 21.5 adjustable bar and it is awesome.

My H-Stock Setup was :
Super Stiff custom valved Bilsteins (built by AWR)
Hawk HP+ pads
MP3 Muffler
K&N Drop-in
225-45 15's upfront
205-50-15's in the back (2 Kumhos for sale!!!)
on Miata 15x6 Wheels

After all that work, I could run with Mini's....sometimes. Possibly, an exceptional driver could win a National Championship with this setup. It was good for a couple local club championships.

I like STS, mostly cause you don't throw all your money away on tires- so you have more to spend on suspension and stuff. I had my first win this past weekend so far it seems like the car has potential for this class- there are still a few key parts that are not available that the car needs (legal headers) though.

Fast DX

Thanks for the quick responses! I thought of a few more things I meant to ask about, I'm really going to have to write stuff down someday.

I know the gauge cluster swap is in the iffy part of the rules and unless somebody has firm clarification on the illegality of it, I'll ask the SEB before I do it if at all.

Looking at the exhaust under the car, it sure seems like there's all kinds of kinked and crimped sections to it. That can't be a good thing. A Neon comes with a 2.0l motor as well but it has a 2.25" exhaust from the factory. This one looks like its 2" and if it isn't too loud without a muffler, I might have a shop build up a replacement cat back with a larger resonator where the stock one is and 2.25" piping from there on out. It'd be much lighter for sure (and pretty cheap).

I can see how 225s up front would help with tire wear. Squeezing them onto 6" wheels would make them bulge out alittle. I'll probably try it after I do shocks, which will be when I save up some money and figure out how bad the stock ones are with the R-tires.

I did fill out the online Mazdaspeed registration already and just need to send in a pic. How much where the Miata wheels you run Jason? Somewhere I saw that a special edition Miata had some BBS wheels that were lightest of all and also a 40mm offset. Anybody know how much those are?

Some additional Qs if you don't mind

1. Anybody use redline gear oil or power steering fluid?

2. What about ignition wires and plugs, is there any reason to change the two wires I have or the plugs? (I'm trying to smooth out the power band and thinking the stock smallish wires might have something to do with it)

Some of you have told me in the past that the '99 ES was the lightest 3rd gen Protege with the most performance potential. I weighed my car with a 1/4 tank of gas, steel wheels, and spare tire/jack still in the trunk. It was 2560 lbs. How does that compare to the '99 ES? The only options my DX has are a/c and a cd player.

Thanks, and I look forward to giving Minis a very hard time

Steve W.

Fast DX

All '03 Protege DXs and LXs have the same motor (2.0l), transmission, gear ratios, and suspension "code" as the '03 ES.

Steve W.

Jas00x

I use the redline gear oil. It seems to smooth out the shifts. I had also switched to DOT 4 Brake fluid, but that didn't seem to help anything so I wouldn't recommend it as a "must do".

The Miata wheels I got were $120 ea (from Mazda Motorsports)- from the 99 Sport and weigh 12 lbs ea. I think the BBS wheels you are talking about are from a 97 M-edition and sell for over $300 ea and weigh about 10 lbs.

The gauge swap should be legal. If you can't swap the gauges, you can just add a tachometer, like Monster Tach or something. Adding gauges in Stock class is allowed (for example: G-cube data acquisition).

I have not weighed mine (a 00 ES) reciently, but I think it was 2450- 2500. So it looks like your weight is good (good thing you got the DX!).

For Shocks, you may want to call AWR- who I got my Bilsteins from. Tell them you want the same valving as mine- I can get you the numbers off of my shocks if you need it. They are expensive to get the custom valving and machining the stock strut body (about $300 per corner). However, I think you will be very happy with the performance. If you are on a budget (and who isn't?), just get the rear shocks. I have found the car is not much faster with the stiff front shocks- just a little easier to drive. YOU WILL NEED STIFF REAR SHOCKS - so I recommend getting really nice custom made rear shocks, like Bilsteins or Konis with stock shocks up front, rather than tokico's all the way around. I wish I had Koni's so I could adjust them to be softer on the street.

Good luck!

carguycw

I've never weighed my ES, but Mazda's stated curb weight for the car is 2,534 lbs. wet. Subtract 8 gallons of gas, the spare and the jack, and ~2,450 lbs. is perfectly believable.

The 01+ cars supposedly weigh about 100 lbs. more than a 99-00 in equivalent trim, due to about 20 lbs. of suspension bracing and 80 lbs. of sound deadening material applied all around the interior.

Fast DX

Originally posted by Jas00x
I use the redline gear oil. It seems to smooth out the shifts. I had also switched to DOT 4 Brake fluid, but that didn't seem to help anything so I wouldn't recommend it as a "must do".

Cool, I'll put the gear oil after this weekend's events. I'm only at 1200 miles and I think it would be good to let things break in some more.

The Miata wheels I got were $120 ea (from Mazda Motorsports)- from the 99 Sport and weigh 12 lbs ea. I think the BBS wheels you are talking about are from a 97 M-edition and sell for over $300 ea and weigh about 10 lbs.

Wow, that's not bad. The LX wheels I picked up cost me less but weighed 16.5 lbs on the junkyard's scale. Even so, full tread V700s on those wheels weighs 4 lbs less than the full tread RE92s and steelies.

The gauge swap should be legal. If you can't swap the gauges, you can just add a tachometer, like Monster Tach or something. Adding gauges in Stock class is allowed (for example: G-cube data acquisition).

I have not weighed mine (a 00 ES) reciently, but I think it was 2450- 2500. So it looks like your weight is good (good thing you got the DX!).

That's precisely why I got a DX. Too bad I don't have all those nice "luxury" items like yours does and the same weight, though.

For Shocks, you may want to call AWR- who I got my Bilsteins from. Tell them you want the same valving as mine- I can get you the numbers off of my shocks if you need it. They are expensive to get the custom valving and machining the stock strut body (about $300 per corner). However, I think you will be very happy with the performance. If you are on a budget (and who isn't?), just get the rear shocks. I have found the car is not much faster with the stiff front shocks- just a little easier to drive. YOU WILL NEED STIFF REAR SHOCKS - so I recommend getting really nice custom made rear shocks, like Bilsteins or Konis with stock shocks up front, rather than tokico's all the way around. I wish I had Koni's so I could adjust them to be softer on the street.

Ahh, shocks...that is definitely part of the plan. I do want to hold off until I get a feel for the car and how much it's going to cost me to make it do what I want. I wonder if it would be possible to do the "Daddio setup" for this car? I'm not exactly sure what that is but it was fast

Good luck!

Thanks,

Steve W.

Jas00x

The "Daddio" setup would be Double adjustable Koni's built by ProParts. Mark was one of the first people to really utilize Double adjustable shocks on Neons- I don't know if the same specs would work on a Protege. ProParts has built shocks for their Protege touring cars, so I think they know what they are doing. However, be sure to tell them you are using a standard rear swaybar because the rear shocks need to be much stiffer than if you had a big rear bar (like the road racers use).
I have talked with them a little and getting some custom made DA's are around $550 per corner (without core charge).


If you do get them, I would have to drive your car sometime

dmitrik4

the biggest "daddio" mod you could do is to get really good like him.

thanks for all the info...protege autoXers are in short supply around here -- the NASIOC subaru'ers own all in philly.

Scapamouche

Welcome to the wonderful world of Proteges, Steve...

Getting away from the ruckus on Yahoo-streettouring?

Fast DX

Thanks, it's going wonderful so far and my first event for the car is tommorrow. I don't have tags on the car yet but, I do have race tires, haha.

Ahh streettouring, hmmm....nahh, lots of exciting stuff going on with ST these days.

Steve W.

Mr. 1.6

Hey I have an SE. Its just a DX with a tac. I run 225/45/15s front and rear and I rub a little when I hit bumps during hard corners. I dont really worry about it though because I only rubbed on this one course where there was a huge bump in the middle of a hard corner. The rear tires were the ones that rubbed too. Never rubbed the front yet.

Have fun at your race!

Heres one of me having fun at my last one! I just love these pics. They were selling discs with 120 or so pics of everyones runs at the last event. You can see my tires are right under the edges of the fenders. The very outside of the tire got cut a little at one event but everything has been fine ever since.