6 speed????
March-9th-2002, 02:04 AM
#2
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Posts: n/a
Originally posted by PseudoRealityX
because its not needed. The Celica's box is way too spaced out, as is the new Tiburon. And the F series motors have big torque curves, and wouldnt benefit from closer ratios all that much anyway.
Mazda cant even build a strong FWD 5 speed box....lets not make them try to build one with another gear in it.
because its not needed. The Celica's box is way too spaced out, as is the new Tiburon. And the F series motors have big torque curves, and wouldnt benefit from closer ratios all that much anyway.
Mazda cant even build a strong FWD 5 speed box....lets not make them try to build one with another gear in it.
And no need for a 6th gear? How often do you drive on the freeway? Every long trip I wish I had a taller 6th gear. Be nice to turn 3k at 80, rather than 4k. (good for mileage too
)
March-13th-2002, 02:48 PM
#4
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Palm Bay, FL
Posts: 163
I read this thread a few posts ago, didn't think anything about it at the time, but have had some thoughts since, and I am glad it popped up again.
I think with the right approach, a 6 spd transmission could be very beneficial to the protege. Leave my overdrive gear where it is. 30+ MPG on the freeway makes me plenty happy. Give me some closer gears down low with a better aim on acceleration and give my car some damn pep. I don't think that people understand the gearings impact on acceleration. You could gear a car in such a way that it tops out at 130mph. It would suck on gas mileage and on the highway, but it would rip through the 1/4 mile. It would also make more use of any torque when exiting corners. Yeah, you would probably have to work the stick a little more, but if you bought a stick in the first place, that probably wouldn't bother you too much. I am all for anything to get her moving a little quicker. I am not saying that the 6 spds that are out there and floating around are any good, but I think with some thought and effort, a good impact could be made with a 6 spd.
I think with the right approach, a 6 spd transmission could be very beneficial to the protege. Leave my overdrive gear where it is. 30+ MPG on the freeway makes me plenty happy. Give me some closer gears down low with a better aim on acceleration and give my car some damn pep. I don't think that people understand the gearings impact on acceleration. You could gear a car in such a way that it tops out at 130mph. It would suck on gas mileage and on the highway, but it would rip through the 1/4 mile. It would also make more use of any torque when exiting corners. Yeah, you would probably have to work the stick a little more, but if you bought a stick in the first place, that probably wouldn't bother you too much. I am all for anything to get her moving a little quicker. I am not saying that the 6 spds that are out there and floating around are any good, but I think with some thought and effort, a good impact could be made with a 6 spd.
March-13th-2002, 06:44 PM
#5
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Richmond, BC, Canada
Posts: 640
Originally posted by Davard
They built a strong 5-speed. They just stopped offering it in the Protege.
And no need for a 6th gear? How often do you drive on the freeway? Every long trip I wish I had a taller 6th gear. Be nice to turn 3k at 80, rather than 4k. (good for mileage too )
They built a strong 5-speed. They just stopped offering it in the Protege.
And no need for a 6th gear? How often do you drive on the freeway? Every long trip I wish I had a taller 6th gear. Be nice to turn 3k at 80, rather than 4k. (good for mileage too
)
March-13th-2002, 07:28 PM
#6
Protege Newbie
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 43
Perhaps the best modification I have made to my 323 GT Turbo is the addition of the 626 5th gear. I now cruise at 70MPH at 2900RPM and 80MPH is still only 3400RPM. The way my 1.8 BPT is sucking gas (272HP @12PSI) I need all the help I can get. Also it makes the car a good long distance ride, where before with the 1.6 and stock gearing 80MPH felt like the motor was going to blow! With my added power even 5PSI is plenty quick even in the tall 5th gear.
Brett.
Brett.
March-14th-2002, 06:06 AM
#7
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Originally posted by PseudoRealityX
Engines with big wide torquey powerbands dont really get a big advantage from having to shift all the time.
Engines with big wide torquey powerbands dont really get a big advantage from having to shift all the time.
Anyway, if I could redesign the gear box. This would be my goal. First gear would have more mechanical advantage. I don't care if first gear runs out in the blink of an eye. Give me some gearing to really get me going. After I wind out first, I want second to drop me to about 3500 RPM (roughly), after I run that up to about 6K or so, I want 3rd to drop me there all over again.
You know what....forget. Just get me a motor with more power. I am not even asking for fast, but lord what I'd do for 40-50 more HP.....
I think I am gonna get some cams real soon.....
March-14th-2002, 12:39 PM
#8
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Okay, I get your point, and your dyno sheet illustrates it beautifully. Very very broad torque curve.
However...what I meant by show me one of these was...A: show me one with power and B:show me one with torque. No offense, but I don't think 102hp and 118lbs qualifies. I guess I have just been spoiled. I don't like it when my buddy's motorcycle makes more horsepower and torque with less than half the displacement.
However...what I meant by show me one of these was...A: show me one with power and B:show me one with torque. No offense, but I don't think 102hp and 118lbs qualifies. I guess I have just been spoiled. I don't like it when my buddy's motorcycle makes more horsepower and torque with less than half the displacement.
March-14th-2002, 09:23 PM
#9
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 1,122
Originally posted by PseudoRealityX
Oh, and the 3rd gen cars have shorter gearing than the 1st gens. :shrug:
Oh, and the 3rd gen cars have shorter gearing than the 1st gens. :shrug:
BTW I agree with you about the powerband. The broad, flat torwue band is one reason I have a Protege and not a Civic- I don't like having to wait until I'm bouncing off the rev limiter in order to go fast. Also, IMHO it is exactly what you want in an autocross car
March-20th-2002, 11:30 AM
#10
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Yes Pseudo, that is much more along the lines of my definition of power. <muttering to self> If I could just figure out how to get that kinda power out of the P5
And no, I am not impressed with the fact that its 4 cylinders and 2L. I come from the world of DSMs, and that's common place.
And no, I am not impressed with the fact that its 4 cylinders and 2L. I come from the world of DSMs, and that's common place.
March-20th-2002, 02:12 PM
#11
Half-assed sport 20
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Greenbelt, MD
Posts: 564
Originally posted by Orange Crush
Yes Pseudo, that is much more along the lines of my definition of power. <muttering to self> If I could just figure out how to get that kinda power out of the P5
And no, I am not impressed with the fact that its 4 cylinders and 2L. I come from the world of DSMs, and that's common place.
Yes Pseudo, that is much more along the lines of my definition of power. <muttering to self> If I could just figure out how to get that kinda power out of the P5
And no, I am not impressed with the fact that its 4 cylinders and 2L. I come from the world of DSMs, and that's common place.
432 lb-ft of torque is common place from a 4-cyl DSM that is NOT running nitrous?
March-20th-2002, 02:16 PM
#12
Demands Perfection
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 344
My Opinion
This is a cool discussion!
Anyway, I've noted my unhappiness with the gearing on my Pro before-- For me, my primary complaint is running at such comparatively high RPM's at normal, boring (i.e. legal) freeway speeds. If I'm going to go that slow, I'd just assume maximize fuel efficiency. It doesn't appear that Mazda wants us to be able to do that.
Mazda runs around talking about the Protege having an "overdrive". In my opinion, our 5th gears better resemble the 4th gear in my sister's '92 Toyota Tercel-- That ain't no damn overdrive!
My opinion: Stick a 6 speed in there that brings down your cruising speed RPM's where it makes sense; in the 2.5k range. Either that or friggin' make our 5th gears a *real* overdrive.
This is about the only thing that pisses me off about our Pro's, so had to say something (again)!
I'll shut up, now!
Anyway, I've noted my unhappiness with the gearing on my Pro before-- For me, my primary complaint is running at such comparatively high RPM's at normal, boring (i.e. legal) freeway speeds. If I'm going to go that slow, I'd just assume maximize fuel efficiency. It doesn't appear that Mazda wants us to be able to do that.
Mazda runs around talking about the Protege having an "overdrive". In my opinion, our 5th gears better resemble the 4th gear in my sister's '92 Toyota Tercel-- That ain't no damn overdrive!
My opinion: Stick a 6 speed in there that brings down your cruising speed RPM's where it makes sense; in the 2.5k range. Either that or friggin' make our 5th gears a *real* overdrive.
This is about the only thing that pisses me off about our Pro's, so had to say something (again)!
I'll shut up, now!
March-20th-2002, 03:34 PM
#13
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Before I careened drastically of topic, I made a new thread for you Pseudo and my doubting friend here.....
Psst <whispering> Its not NOS, its a turbo, and yes it works wonders
New Thread
Psst <whispering> Its not NOS, its a turbo, and yes it works wonders
New Thread
March-20th-2002, 04:10 PM
#14
Half-assed sport 20
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Greenbelt, MD
Posts: 564
Protege's get 30mpg+ when driven kindly. So, why do we need a 6th gear?
If you want gears for better accel, then you'll just be at higher revs when you get to highway speed. I don't believe that gears are the limiting factor when your engine is putting 110hp to the wheels (2.0L ES and P5).
I turn 4K RPM and 80mph and that seems high, but my car still gets good gas milage and is closer to the power band. So, I have no complaints.
Anyway, 430lb-ft of torque in an eclipse isn't common place; espically without NOS. That was my point.
BTW, doesn't audi make a continuously variable gear box?
If you want gears for better accel, then you'll just be at higher revs when you get to highway speed. I don't believe that gears are the limiting factor when your engine is putting 110hp to the wheels (2.0L ES and P5).
I turn 4K RPM and 80mph and that seems high, but my car still gets good gas milage and is closer to the power band. So, I have no complaints.
Anyway, 430lb-ft of torque in an eclipse isn't common place; espically without NOS. That was my point.
BTW, doesn't audi make a continuously variable gear box?
March-20th-2002, 06:08 PM
#15
Demands Perfection
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 344
Agreed + Clarification
Indeed, that's surely true that, as a 2 litre 4, the Pro wouldn't be able to maintain speed @ 80mph and 2.5k RPM. I was referring to 2.5k RPM at legal freeway speeds. 2500 RPM at speeds like 65 is pretty much industry standard, except for the Protege. THAT'S what I don't understand... 
The 5th gear is called an "overdrive", but it doesn't deliver the kind of performance you'd expect from an overdrive. It seems logical to assume that our Pro's would be getting even better milage than we're getting now if only Mazda hadn't screwed up this tranny.
Anyway, as said, this is one of my pet peeves, and is just my humble opinion...
The 5th gear is called an "overdrive", but it doesn't deliver the kind of performance you'd expect from an overdrive. It seems logical to assume that our Pro's would be getting even better milage than we're getting now if only Mazda hadn't screwed up this tranny. Anyway, as said, this is one of my pet peeves, and is just my humble opinion...