pure air
 

this might be the dumbest question to hit this page...anyways i have a few.

first...anyone know if they make front mount intake systems for P5 and MP3's? if they dont i will tryt o fabricate one and then sell them...anyone want to have one?

2nd-how bad would Nos fuck up the engine. i would hardly use it. but say if i were to use it...would my engine fry? cuz i saw a tv show where they add Nos to a honda that was older (like around 75miles) and it didnt do anything to the car. so i was wondering if nos is good.

3rd- the really dumb question. ok nos introduces more sir into the combustion chamber, which then makes more power. but the oxygen % that is introduce is only around 36%. so i was wondering what would happen if you shot pure oxygen into a motor. i know it might be too lean. but what if you over came that. what what happen? anyone know?

peace


honda is going down

1. AEM and Injen make the most popular intakes for the P5 MP3 Es 2.0 etc. I believe you are refering to a Intake that travels from the front bumper or below that "scoops" air right? (similar two what a lot of people do to 2.5rs's) If that is the case I think custom is only way to go. I have never read a whole lot on these types of intakes except stay away from wet roads with them

2. Do a search on Nitrous. A few members have plumbed nitrous systems into their proteges and I believe one person had some problems

3. In Physical Science class in high school I asked what would happen to a forest fire if the entire atmosphere was 100% oxygen. I don't remember what he said but it was something like a lit match would engulf the whole earth or something stupid like that. I do know that Oxygen is extremely flamable. Most likely our engines could not handle the extreme pressure of pure oxygen.

Some math shit:


our atmosphere is approx. 76% nitrogen and the rest some oxygen, pollution, etc. and we make 130hp at sea level, or near it. (please don't quote me on these numbers I am in a network administration major and we don't deal with this stuff to often) Lets say for the argument that Earth's atmosphere is 10% oxygen, I think it is closer to 7% but again I am not sure. If we double that to 20% would that mean we were doubling our power? If so then with 100% oxygen we would be making 130 * 10= 1300hp! Ha, I am going to Dick's Home Care now and getting a Oxygen tank!

I am pretty sure I am full of BS with all of that but the point is that I don't think our engines could handle that. If anyone else knows otherwise please let us know.

Pure air
 

well shit i am going to try to do something about that air thing. if i could make a system know how tight that would be...anyways you have to stay away from wet roads with the front intakes. i read that there was some kind of shield in front of it. well i guess that is another thing i can work on. well thanks. and the numbers i dont know too much about them wither so its all good. what about nitro in the engine. now wouldnt that be tight?

Thanks for clearing those numbers up. I had a feeling they were off.


This may be way off too. Isn't the fuel used in some space shuttles and rockets a mixture of concentrated or liquid 02 or something? I don't remember if I read that somewhere

other sources
 

well since the general disscussion is that if air is added then it might blow up the engine, wouldnt that be fun to just find out?

so what other means of adding more oxygen. since nos only adds about 36% of O2 in, is there other forms of gases that will burn like nos but have higher O2 content?

i am not good with chenistry but i am good at blowing things up. so if anyways has something that might work i could try. but i really need to find out about adding pure O2 into the chamber.

what about a system of O2, Nos, and fuel. since you would be adding Nos to ignite the O2 it might just work. who know right?

just read
 

the reason that there is only 36% of O2 in a bottle of Nos is because the nitrogen is used to act as a cushion so that the O2 doesnt burn to hot and start to melt components with in the engine. so i guess that is why. but who knows. when is the lasat time someone hooked up a tank and really saw what happens.

well I will tell you what would happen....your motor would CRATER in a matter of seconds.....if you were lucky...that is all that would happen.

YES...Oxygen is an OXIDIZER....there is ONE thing you NEVER EVER do around 100% oxygen...and that is get hydrocarbons in contact with it....such as ANY fuel, or grease or oil you have in your car....in the presence of 100% oxygen...they will spontainously combust....and that could actually feed down a line TO your tank....and then not only is the motor history....so is the car...and EVERYONE in it.

this is NOT a good idea.....and as they say on tv..

"DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS AT HOME"

for if you do....you will only do it once.

Oxidation is a chemical process of elements breaking down....depending on the elements...they oxidize in different ways....

IRON/Carbon steel oxidizes and produces RUST.....when fuel elements oxidize they create heat....and combustion occurs once a critical temperature is reached.

the faster this chemical reaction happens....the more heat builds up....and possibly the more violent the combustion is that takes place.

this is why when 100% oxygen comes in contact with combustables it can EXPLODE....the chemical reaction is incredibly fast and violent.

Many things that WILL burn, won't unless you mix in an appropriate amount of Oxygen.....believe it or not....Gasoline in its LIQUID form does NOT burn....you have to vaporize it or ATOMIZE IT (mix it with oxygen) to get it to burn....BTW...it vaporizes naturally at temps as low as -20 deg. F. these are the FUMES you smell. all things that will burn have a FLASH POINT, this is the LOWEST temperature at which the vapors of a substance will ignite. an example...Paper....its flash point is 451 Deg F....if you put some paper in the oven...and slowly raise the temp....once the paper reaches 451...it will burst into flames.

okay....is this any clearer now?

I'm no Chemi, but I believe that the "contiminants" in our air (ie. Nitrogen, etc.) acutally serve to cool the combustion process. Without those other elements the combustion temperatures would be too excessive and you would probably have severe detonation problems as well as probably exceding the melting point of your aluminum pistons, and other hardware.

you are right
 

the nitrogen acts as a softener. so the temp dont get to that point. well that is why you cant add pure oxyegn. but i am really determinded to find the best comb. like 75% O2. that would be good.

i got connections
 

if confused read the title

Numero uno here is that oxygen when mixed with hydrocarbons does not spontaneously combust. You need energy to allow the 02 (which is a stable molecule ie. both oxygen molecules are satisfied on their outer orbits) to react with the hydrocarbons. The spark in an engine provides the energy necessary to cause the 02 to react with the hydrocarbons. Number two is that you still need to maintain the A/F ratio in the engine. So if you are running 100% oxygen you would need to mix a buttload of fuel with it in order to prevent a severely lean condition which would destroy your motor. Not to mention that the fuel you would need to react with that oxygen would produce enough pressure when it did combust to destroy the entire motor anyway. I could envision parts flying around everywhere. Plus the fact oxygen is extremely corrosive and will cause a great deal of damage if it should happen to come into contact with some energy and some materials it can combust with. Apollo 1 was the result of a little electrical fire (which would have been fine under normal atmospheric conditions) being ignited in a pure oxygen environment where it was able to rapidly react with the other substances. Not to mention the fact that the escape hatch took so damn long to get off (which more than anything else killed those guys). In short that little bit of nitrogen in NOS is a good and necessary thing.

Obviously YOU have never seen someone screw up and put oil or grease on an OXYGEN cylinder to lubircate the threads of the valve....then open the valve only to have it explode in their face....don't say it can't happen....it has.

diesels glow, not spark. Someone earlier said that Nitrous is 36 percent oxygen and 64 percent Nitrogen, I'm assuming. I use that special blend when I scuba dive. They call it enriched air or Nitrox and I can get it blended in almost any mixture. It allows you to stay under the water longer with out getting decompression sickness. The most I have ever dove with was 36 percent. I can get a 120Lb. tank filled for $5. Is this the same by any chance? If so I just found the power/dollar equalizer. No more $30-40 for refils on a 10Lb. bottle. Anyone got any ideas on this?

the same right?
 

you would think it would be the same. since O2 and nitrogen dont change forms from one bottle to the other.

so now the questions are do you have to be a diver in order to fill up your tank?

and how long is a divers tank, cuz could you mount that in your car?

I think No2 is a compound that is the result of some sort of reaction, unlike the mixture in your scuba tank. If you had Nitrous in your tank you would be laughing all the way to ocean floor.

True... I can't remember the last time a guy laughed all the way to the ocean floor and lived to tell about it.:D

ok, i got an idea, how aobut somebody try this with their car and let us know... at worst we'd just have another darwin award nominee, http://www.darwinawards.com/, lol :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :nod:

Propane
 

i wasnt going to just throw in a suba bottle in the back of my car. i was just wondering how big they are cuz Nos bottles are really small in comparision. and so is the air that they put in suba bottles the same? or is it different. and what about if you have to be a diver to get it filled. wouldnt it be kinda wierd that you go to a scuba shop to get you nos filled?

then here is a new thing i found out. i was watching something about adding propane to a car's engine. but the car was a diesal. (spelling sucks i know) and i was wondering if you could do this. and if it does anything to a regular eninge. wondering if it adds more power than nos. not really sure cuz they didnt talk about the addition on a regular car's engine. but it should work right? ever hear about the ford mustang that made like 500hp with propane?

I have seen drag cars powered TOTALLY on Propane....just took some fancy fuel management and SPECIAL throttle bodies....the car was like a Pro-Stock type configuration.....and was runnin in the 9 second field.

unless I am mistaken...and its happened before.....a standard scuba tank holds 80 cu. ft. ...... someone mentioned weight as a factor of the bottle..... we also have some tanks here at work for scba NOT scuba...but scba....(self contained breathing apparatus) but NOT for UNDERWATER use...like in fire fighting and oxygen deficient atmosphere work....anyway....those bottles are not that heavy...they are aluminum and then wrapped with fiberglass....and are NORMALLY charged up to 4500 PSI with breathing air.

what is the NORMAL presure that you have a NOS bottle charged up to?

Fact: the last thing you should want to be doing is finding the largest bottle that holds an extremely flammable gas at extremely high pressures, then getting in your car and doing stupid shit with it. If you get into an accident with some jerry rigged contraption like that you not only stand a good chance of killing your self, but alot of bystanders, and probably a couple of firemen who are trying to save your ass from burning to death. Personally I never thought NOS should be allowed on the street to begin with. Trucks are required to state what type of compressed gases they are carrying for just such a reason.
I am not trying to stifle creativity, but if you try any of this, do it on a drag strip and make sure the officials know what you are doing.

Re: Propane
 

Ok, for the last time, no the stuff in scuba tanks is not the same as NOS. Scuba tanks have nitrogen AND oxygen. Usually they put a higher percentage of oxygen in scuba tanks like 22% air instead of the normal 19%.

NOS is nitrous oxide, it has the chemical formula N2O this means it is a completely separate gas to air. NOS is very unstable, with a little heat(or pressure) N2O will break down into N2 and O like this 2N2O -> 2N2 + O2. What this formula tells you is that you have just created 3 moles of gas from 2 moles of gas. Chemists know that 1 mole of gas equals 22.4L of volume. So guess what happens in your engine when you force 44.8L of gas into the chamber and it spontaneously turns into 67.2? Then that oxygen once again burns with the gas to produce even more gas because hydrocarbons combust like so
CH4 + O2 -> CO2+2H2O(G) see what happened in that equation? 2 moles turns to 3. The secret of NOS is not the oxygen, the secret is how it evolves chemically into a greater amount of gas.

So stop talking about using pure O2 because it won't do shit besides melting your engine. :)
Stocker.

OK ummmm does anyone else see something wrong with this statement. In any chemical reaction you cannot make mass. Mass is neither created nor destroyed. By the logic you just said you are saying we can take 2 moles of gas and make 3 thats impossible. N2O breaks down as a result of heat when used in an engine. It breaks down into the 2 nitrogen atoms and the 1 oxygen atom which are instantly consumed by the combustion in the chamber. N2O creates power by giving the engine extra Oxygen. Also NOS Tech recommendes 900 PSI minimum for a good run in the N2O bottle and N2O by itself is not flamable...I think whoever said that here watched the fast and the ferousios one too many times.

Just how do you think an internal combustion engine works? You put in fuel, liquid or gas, mix with O2, add a spark, compress and COMBUST!!!!! combustion is the evolution of gases. Which moves the piston.
Jesus, you're playing with NOS in your car and you don't understand this concept? That's scary.

I as for the last bit about N2O being flammable, I was actually talking about someone who mentioned putting a cannister of pure O2 in the back, but agreed it isn't flammable I shouldn't have used the terminology, but putting a can of oxidizer above a big tank of fuel has got to make you scratch your head.

Air is 28% oxygen by weight, do you really think that extra 8% is making that much difference?

Nitrogen acts as a buffer? Could you explain that to me?

Nitrous does not have a intercooling effect, every gas in the world cools as it expands, it is called thermodynamics, ever felt a bottle of propane while soldering? Heat does work, compressing a gas causes heat, allowing one to expand requires heat and hence cools the temperature of the gas as it expands.

You know, I fully admit that I know shit all about how to install or operate a nitrous system, but the stuff you guys are posting is just basic chemistry.

Stocker.

I brouught up the scuba debate and would like to set something straight. I am not trying to put a scuba tank in my car. It is a massive tank. I was talking about a 120 cubic foot tank. They are inflated to almost 3500 Lbs of air. You do need to be a diver to get a scuba tank filled, so if you wanted to get a nitrous tank filled you would need to be a certified diver with enriched air credentials as well. Diving with enriched air is dangerous because of the extra exposure to the oxygen so they have additional courses you need to take to get certified to dive with it. I was just curious if I could fill my "NAWS" tank at the dive shop for $5. If they have the same components then it would be a much cheaper option....just curious.

Yes Stocker it is basic chemistry....and we are talking about it because someone ask WHY, and WHAT IF...and didn't know the answers......

isn't that what we are all here for? learning new things? increasing our knowledge level about our cars and what we can do with them?

Personally I think so....and don't mind answering questions....giving of my opinion....and posibly helping someone along the way.

and stocker is wrong about the air that we breathe. Its 19-23% oxygen by weight depending on altitude and therefor 36% oxygen would be a 13-17% increase (a good ammount). Thanks for sticking up for all of us who know nothing about chemistry.....sense the sarcasm?.....

Sorry I forgot to carry the 2
:)

Ok, I read that article, here is my problem with it. In it he states that
"Simply stated, nitrous oxide injection is very much like a supercharger or a compression ratio increase in that, during combustion, it can dramatically increase the dynamic cylinder pressure in the engine."

Ok yes I agree with him it does indeed change the compression ratio in the engine. However the small increase in oxygen being injected into the engine is not enough to account for the huge change in horsepower. you have to have a huge volume increase to create that much work.

Here I have websites too. :)

http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/motm/n2o/n2oc.htm
This one is from the university of bristol, that gives a basic description of how N2O works.

I am not trying to tick anyone off, (someone actually took a round out of me first). I am just stating that from what I know of chemistry and energy and thermodynamics even doubling the amount of oxygen in an engine will not create enough of a volume expansion to account for a 20-30% increase in horsepower.

So everyone just chill, this is supposed to be a happy giddy type of forum.

sheesh..............you all are crazy

oh yea..... and i now have a headache......thanks guys

Craig...you are SOOOOOOOOOO welcome...we are so pleased we could do you a service! lol lol :D

oh,... so it was YOU that started this huh?.... sir nuke....should have guessed....lololol

shit all i wanted
 

damn all i wanted to know what would happen if you put pure O2 into an engine. i just wanted to know if it was possible.

then the whole NOS thing came up and so i asked about propane. no one knows anything about the propane so that is alight. so now i am going to end all this bull shit about people getting mad about what NOS and its chemical solutions do to a car's engine.


NOS will add as much power as you want. from 20hp to 200hp or whatever. IT IS DANGEROUS. we kinda figured that out. if you didnt know this then dont stick a bottle in your car. IF the NOS has 36% O2 then it will give you the above stated gains for brief seconds. thats right anymore than that your car WILL blow its self up, unless you really modify the shit out of it. who cares how the damn thing makes so much power even if they dont realse all the info and that other articles say something else. it works and let it be. you run the risk of using it.

there nothing more. no more arguing. i was just wondering about it and it seems people like to make you feel dumb if you know nothing about chemistry. so sorry for not knowing that is why i came here.

and no more arguing.

Re: shit all i wanted
 

If it was me that made you feel dumb about chemistry, I apologize, I sometimes take certain things for granted that I shouldn't.

If it makes you feel better, I found this on the net, just a quote from an edmunds column.

"Finally, AEH inquired about the use of pure oxygen in engines. "Why not bleed pure oxygen into the engine instead of nitrous oxide?" Unlike nitrous oxide, pure oxygen IS highly combustible. If a compressed tank of oxygen was in a vehicle, and that vehicle was involved in an accident, well, let's just say that going fast would be the least of your worries. "

So don't worry you are not the first person to wonder about this concept. Another thing you should be aware of is, your idea is completely valid, a man by the name of Stirling built an engine that ran on pure oxygen and diesel. Check out the link below.

http://www.subsim.com/ssr/frank1.html

Sometimes the best ideas are the craziest ones.
Peace
Stocker

Number #1: The principle of diesel is compression and a little bit of heat (left over from previous reactions).

Number #2: The official cause of death for those poor guys was poisoning. They actually were not burned bad at all. They were killed by the poisons that built up in the atmosphere. I know this because I actually read a book about it instead of just watching the movie.

no doubt
 

this is a great converstation but people are getting a little too heated about who is right that is all. so everyone just cool down. this is something that, i believe, should be talked about since there is alot of people seeing the movie "Fast and the Furious" and adding nos to their cars and could getting themsleves into alot of trouble. pushing the botton is more than extra power to the wheels.

stocker dont worry about making me feel dumb...i got through chemistry-barely. just no more arguing.

really
 

what book did you read. cuz that is kinda wierd that those guys died of posioning. that is really wierd considering the extreme temos they went through. that is really wierd. oh you know the Challenger that exploded. the reason that they died was from drowning?

Sir Nuke I cannot even begin to understand what you mean by that? How could putting grease or oil on a thread make an oxygen cylinder explode?